Kwon Alexander?

[BFritz21]

Alexander's a free agent and Sportsnaut lists us as one of three best landing spots for him:

Quote:The Cincinnati Bengals have the offensive talent to create some havoc in 2021. Joe Burrow will be ready for Week 1 and he should thrive with an exciting, young supporting cast. But if this front office wants to do its franchise quarterback a favor, it should try and address this defense before the regular season.

If the 2021 season started today, Germaine Pratt (41.5 PFF grade) would start at inside linebacker. Keep in mind, it’s not like outside linebackers Jordan Evans (61.0 PFF grade) or Akeem Davis-Gaither are any better. The Bengals clearly care about improving the front seven, given the investments made in the defensive line. A one-year deal could work nicely for both sides.

I think this would be huge for our defense and help solidify our squad by being a solid player at outside backer. He's only 26 but he does come with injury risks and has only played 26 of 48 games and, with our luck, that's just about a deal killer.

You think he's worth the risk? We do need the help.

[J24]

If he is healthy then yeah I think he would be an excellent signing!

[Wes Mantooth]

100% worth the risk if the contract is managable, which I think would be.  We still have plenty of cap space, and our LB corp as a whole is absolute garbage.  It's the weakest position group on the entire team by far.

He definitely seems like the type of player who is looking to take a 1 year "prove-it" year.  He's young enough where he doesn't want to lock himself into a lower contract than the one he can get if he plays his out of it this year.  With it being this late into the offseason, and with the salary cap due to rise in 2022, I'd look for him to take a 1 year deal for well under 10 million.

I'd be all over this if I were the Bengals.  Of course that is assuming that he is healthy and was a salary cap casualty and there's not something else going on.  Why not take a chance at, say, 4-7 million for a year?

[t3r3e3]

Seems like Thomas Howard 2.0. Athletic ability is top of the charts, but comes with some concerns. Worth a price-it deal, but the FO doesn’t seem to be itching to sign OL or LB help.

[Luvnit2]

(06-28-2021, 09:20 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 100% worth the risk if the contract is managable, which I think would be.  We still have plenty of cap space, and our LB corp as a whole is absolute garbage.  It's the weakest position group on the entire team by far.

He definitely seems like the type of player who is looking to take a 1 year "prove-it" year.  He's young enough where he doesn't want to lock himself into a lower contract than the one he can get if he plays his out of it this year.  With it being this late into the offseason, and with the salary cap due to rise in 2022, I'd look for him to take a 1 year deal for well under 10 million.

I'd be all over this if I were the Bengals.  Of course that is assuming that he is healthy and was a salary cap casualty and there's not something else going on.  Why not take a chance at, say, 4-7 million for a year?

Turner as an all pro guard and signed 3 million one year deal
I just don't see him getting 10 million on one year deal, maybe 2 years for 10 million more likely

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-29-2021, 12:29 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Turner as an all pro guard and signed 3 million one year deal
I just don't see him getting 10 million on one year deal, maybe 2 years for 10 million more likely

Fwiw, I said well under 10 million.  I don't know exactly what he'll command but it should be a lot less. (I used a 4-7 figure in my post as a ballpark)

[fredtoast]

He played like crap last year BEFORE tearing his achilles tendon in week 16.

Anyone who thinks our LBs are "garbage" should check out these numbers from last year.


Kwon.......667 snaps...57 tkls....3 TFL....1 sack....2 QB hits....0 int
Wilson.....343 snaps....33 tkls....4 TFL....1 sack....2 QB hits....2 int

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-29-2021, 01:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He played like crap last year BEFORE tearing his achilles tendon in week 16.

Anyone who thinks our LBs are "garbage" should check out these numbers from last year.


Kwon.......667 snaps...57 tkls....3 TFL....1 sack....2 QB hits....0 int
Wilson.....343 snaps....33 tkls....4 TFL....1 sack....2 QB hits....2 int

I'm not sure what these numbers have to do with establishing whether or not our LB corp is garbage.  I only see a comparison between our best LB and Alexander.

The fact of the matter is Kwon Alexander has at times been an very good LB.  There's no denying that.  Our team hasn't had one of those in quite awhile.  He's also only 26 years old.  And the Bengals depth at the position is poor.

Fwiw, here are the 2020 PFF ratings for Alexander, and the Bengals LB's.

Alexander - 58.6
Wilson - 54.7
Pratt - 41.5
Davis-Gaither - 40.5
Markus Bailey - 32.6

I don't put a lot of stock into PFF to provide exact ratings/rankings but I do think they can be useful in getting a ballpark idea of the level of play.So if you believe that Alexander played like "crap" then how could you come to any other conclusion than our LB's are garbage?  (If he's crap then what are they?)

More importanty, there's no question  2020 was bad year for Alexander.  He was coming off an injury in 2019, and he was traded mid-season.  He also was right in the middle of a mega-deal, which may have affected his motivation.  That's something that wouldn't be an issue on a 1 year prove-it deal.

Perhaps settling into a new system in the offseason, rather than trying to pick it up in week 6 will do wonder for him?  Perhaps the fact he's playing for a new contract might motivate him?  Perhaps he looks more like the player he was in his first two years than he did in his last two years?  Of course maybe he's not worth the risk.  Maybe the Bengals would better off pocketing that 5 mil or so and not even trying to improve the position.

PS Don't think I didn't notice you intentionally leaving out forced fumbles and fumbles recovered from your stats.  I know you did that on purpose.  But hey, you've got arguments to win.  

[Luvnit2]

(06-29-2021, 09:44 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm not sure what these numbers have to do with establishing whether or not our LB corp is garbage.  I only see a comparison between our best LB and Alexander.

The fact of the matter is Kwon Alexander has at times been an very good LB.  There's no denying that.  Our team hasn't had one of those in quite awhile.  He's also only 26 years old.  And the Bengals depth at the position is poor.

Fwiw, here are the 2020 PFF ratings for Alexander, and the Bengals LB's.

Alexander - 58.6
Wilson - 54.7
Pratt - 41.5
Davis-Gaither - 40.5
Markus Bailey - 32.6

I don't put a lot of stock into PFF to provide exact ratings/rankings but I do think they can be useful in getting a ballpark idea of the level of play.So if you believe that Alexander played like "crap" then how could you come to any other conclusion than our LB's are garbage?  (If he's crap then what are they?)

More importanty, there's no question  2020 was bad year for Alexander.  He was coming off an injury in 2019, and he was traded mid-season.  He also was right in the middle of a mega-deal, which may have affected his motivation.  That's something that wouldn't be an issue on a 1 year prove-it deal.

Perhaps settling into a new system in the offseason, rather than trying to pick it up in week 6 will do wonder for him?  Perhaps the fact he's playing for a new contract might motivate him?  Perhaps he looks more like the player he was in his first two years than he did in his last two years?  Of course maybe he's not worth the risk.  Maybe the Bengals would better off pocketing that 5 mil or so and not even trying to improve the position.

PS Don't think I didn't notice you intentionally leaving out forced fumbles and fumbles recovered from your stats.  I know you did that on purpose.  But hey, you've got arguments to win.  

I agree, his value and stock are way down due to performance. But, for the right price if he is healthy, I would love for us to sign a young vet to the LB room.

[SadFaceBengal15]

This would be outstanding.

[DYT_Bengal]

A lot of players regressed last year...for some reason.

LB are harshly graded by PFF - CB and LB are the most affected by the play of other teammates/play call. I don’t think our scheme is LB friendly (not to say our LB are good).

We still need to sign an O-Lineman, but there are few out there worthy of signing to start.

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2021, 09:44 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: The fact of the matter is Kwon Alexander has at times been an very good LB.  

The fact of the matter is that he has not been good OR healthy since 2017.

Last year he missed 4 games with a high ankle sprain then tore his achilles barely six months ago.  And he was playing poorly BEFORE that major injury.  The chances of him being good or healthy this year are slim to none.

[SadFaceBengal15]

(06-29-2021, 05:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The fact of the matter is that he has not been good OR healthy since 2017.

Last year he missed 4 games with a high ankle sprain then tore his achilles barely six months ago.  And he was playing poorly BEFORE that major injury.  The chances of him being good or healthy this year are slim to none.

Square

[Wes Mantooth]

(06-29-2021, 05:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The chances of him being good or healthy this year are slim to none.

I guess we'll see if this holds true when the professionals set his market.  If you're right, and the chances are slim to none that can be good or healthy then he should see a contract for under 2 million dollars.

No one is making money beyond that if there is virtually no chance of either of these things happening.

[Luvnit2]

(06-29-2021, 05:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The fact of the matter is that he has not been good OR healthy since 2017.

Last year he missed 4 games with a high ankle sprain then tore his achilles barely six months ago.  And he was playing poorly BEFORE that major injury.  The chances of him being good or healthy this year are slim to none.

When did he get hurt? James tore his Achilles a couple of months ago, Ravens signed him anyway and expect him ready by November or December.

Why couldn't Alexander be ready by September? Slim to none seems like a worst case scenario and unlikely. Suggs also came back from a tear in May to play months later.

[fredtoast]

(06-30-2021, 01:13 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: When did he get hurt? James tore his Achilles a couple of months ago, Ravens signed him anyway and expect him ready by November or December.

Why couldn't Alexander be ready by September? Slim to none seems like a worst case scenario and unlikely. Suggs also came back from a tear in May to play months later.

From what I read the Ravens said it was "possible" James could play this year, but most people assumed he would miss the entire year.

Suggs did come back from a "partial tear" and played 8 games, but he went from 14 sacks in 16 games in 2011 to just 2 sacks in 8 games in 2012,  So he was far from fully recovered.  If Kwon had had a Pro Bowl season before getting injured last year then he might be of some value at 75% recovered, but he was not looking good BEFORE he tore his achilles.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Good depth, all for it.

Looking for Logan Wilson to have a very good sophomore season.

[jj22]

He won't even be ready this season. By the time he gets healthy, the season will be over.

We can't keep hitching our wagon on these injury risk players we love, all to breakdown and be upset when they get injured and don't contribute.

[*ochocincos*]

(06-29-2021, 01:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He played like crap last year BEFORE tearing his achilles tendon in week 16.

Anyone who thinks our LBs are "garbage" should check out these numbers from last year.


Kwon.......667 snaps...57 tkls....3 TFL....1 sack....2 QB hits....0 int
Wilson.....343 snaps....33 tkls....4 TFL....1 sack....2 QB hits....2 int

Alexander also had just a 58.6 PFF grade. 60.2 run, 66.4 rush, 55.6 coverage.
Wilson was better than Alexander in coverage (63.1), as was Germaine Pratt (64.2).
If Wilson and Pratt can get their run defense to where their coverage is, they'll be some of the better LBs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-06-2021, 12:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: He won't even be ready this season. By the time he gets healthy, the season will be over.

We can't keep hitching our wagon on these injury risk players we love, all to breakdown and be upset when they get injured and don't contribute.

He is injured eh? Pass.