Jackson Carman At Bottom Of Depth Chart

[jj22]

(08-12-2021, 03:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We only paid Mike Daniels $1.5 million.  He did not look good last year.  I think he is far from a lock to make the roster.

This is a hot take because coaches love him. I agree though. He was brought in when we lost our run stuffing dt's (his pass rush days had long been over). Now that all of them are back Reader/Tupou and the addition of Shelvin, outside of "veteran leadership" his replacements are here an healthy. 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(08-12-2021, 03:08 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Reader, Topou and Shelvin are NT's, while Ogunjobi, Daniels and Wren are DT's and listed as such as 1-3 on the depth chart. With as many interior defensive linemen as we ran through last year, I expect they'll keep 6

I'd be very surprised if they kept 6 as Special Teams determines the back end of the roster and there's very little value on Teams for a DT.

I think Wren will be an easy cut. He'd shown very little production in college and whilst there was a chance he broke out in the NFL in a way he hadn't in college it was unlikely. It is even less likely after he's spent most of the last two years injured.

[Whatever]

(08-12-2021, 03:43 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Even if Sewell is struggling with pass pro, wouldnt it be nice to have a mauler on this line? Someone to help open up holes for Mixon to run through?

Jonah Reiff and Sewell all on this line wouldve been the ideal scenario.

Sewell isn't really mauling guys in the run game, though.  For example...

"He’s a rookie offensive lineman, and learning a new position at that. So there will be mistakes, like the time he let an end-of-the-bench defensive tackle named Bruce Hector blow past him for a tackle for loss on Wednesday. Da’Shawn Hand got him on another play as well."

For reference, Hector is a 26 year old former UDFA who's bounced around as PS fodder and dressed for 11 games since '18.  The Lions claimed him on waivers last month from the Titans.  Hand was a 4th round pick in '18 and has had an injury riddled career, playing in 26 games with 11 starts and recording 3 sacks and 6 TFL's so far for his career.

Sewell has gotten plenty of praise in TC, but it's mainly been for his size and athleticism moreso than his actual play so far.

[SladeX]

(08-12-2021, 03:19 PM)GodFather Wrote: The pick up at number one to me is contingent. If you go with Sewell, its obvious you have a lineman. If you go with Chase, then make sure you makeup the difference somewhere else to assure the offensive line will be in a much better place this year. 

 I love Chase and think hes going to be great with us, I also would've loved Sewell. So to me the big thing is what this front office DIDNT do enough of this offseason to address the offensive line. If your answer is Reiff and Carman, and Jackson is going to take time to develop, then you should've gotten a day one starter somewhere else be it the draft or FA.

This x1000. For christ sakes, it has to be apparent that the team could've addressed the G position in FA, but chose not to. Had they done this, Carmen's struggles wouldn't be a problem. Yes! They needed to invest THAT MUCH this offseason.!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-12-2021, 07:49 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Well then let's hope the reports from Tobin that he needs to get in peak shape are due to his previous medical issues and being a bit behind.  If he does indeed have the drive to get to where he needs to be then I'm sure he will give all he has to work toward being a starter.

Nothing wrong with pushing him, I in fact love it. I know people like tear down Duke but I think he has done well the last couple 
years and he wants his thoughts on players and everything he does to show in a great way. Now or never, fans are about done with
this rebuild. We have our guys, lets roll.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-12-2021, 09:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: Sewell isn't really mauling guys in the run game, though.  For example...

"He’s a rookie offensive lineman, and learning a new position at that. So there will be mistakes, like the time he let an end-of-the-bench defensive tackle named Bruce Hector blow past him for a tackle for loss on Wednesday. Da’Shawn Hand got him on another play as well."

For reference, Hector is a 26 year old former UDFA who's bounced around as PS fodder and dressed for 11 games since '18.  The Lions claimed him on waivers last month from the Titans.  Hand was a 4th round pick in '18 and has had an injury riddled career, playing in 26 games with 11 starts and recording 3 sacks and 6 TFL's so far for his career.

Sewell has gotten plenty of praise in TC, but it's mainly been for his size and athleticism moreso than his actual play so far.

I think this will just be ignored by the Chase and Carman haters. Chase is coming around and I bet Carman and Sewell will as well.

It still is a matter of preference. 

How has Terrace Marshall looked in Camp is a wonder to me as lots were pushing for the Sewell/Marshall Draft over the Chase/OL 
in the 2nd?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-12-2021, 10:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think this will just be ignored by the Chase and Carman haters. Chase is coming around and I bet Carman and Sewell will as well.

It still is a matter of preference. 

How has Terrace Marshall looked in Camp is a wonder to me as lots were pushing for the Sewell/Marshall Draft over the Chase/OL 
in the 2nd?

Marshall is apparently looking really good. That pick would have scared the shit out of me though with our history of drafting 1st rounders with injury histories. Which ofc is the only reason Carolina was even able to get him where they did. I thought he was going to sneak into the first before that late medical report came out.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-12-2021, 02:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: And it means nothing, Sewell playing poorly in pass protection means something.

Not really. He's moving to a new position, opposite of what he's use to. "Use to" being a year and a half ago, and like Chase, he's probably still getting over the inactivity. 

He's a rookie, playing on an island, with everything backwards to what his muscle memory is.

And he's 20 years old. 

[*Nately120*]

When we assumed we were going to take Sewell he was "the next Munoz" and I had a feeling he'd be "the next Munoz" in these parts unless we didn't take him...and then Chase fever hit and the rest is history. I ain't sad about Chase, I just think it's funny that Sewell went from the next Munoz to a guy we don't worry about missing out on because he isn't killing it at training camp.

As I said before, we're going to be fine because the Lions taking him means we never have to worry about him hoisting the Lombardi and making us feel bad.

[Whatever]

(08-12-2021, 11:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: When we assumed we were going to take Sewell he was "the next Munoz" and I had a feeling he'd be "the next Munoz" in these parts unless we didn't take him...and then Chase fever hit and the rest is history.  I ain't sad about Chase, I just think it's funny that Sewell went from the next Munoz to a guy we don't worry about missing out on because he isn't killing it at training camp.

As I said before, we're going to be fine because the Lions taking him means we never have to worry about him hoisting the Lombardi and making us feel bad.

I think Sewell will develop into a good player and would have had no issue if he(or Pitts) was our pick.  I said numerous times that he has Ogden type potential.  That said, I do feel that he's a guy that will take a year or two to develop and he wasn't a guy that was going to come in and be a quality starter as a rookie like some presented him as.

It's just funny that when you read about the struggles Sewell has had in TC the media is mostly positive because they are typical issues rookies have.  However, when you read about Chase or Carman struggling, certain Bengals beat writers and fans try to spin it as if they were bad picks, even though the guy they wanted is going through arguably worse struggles.  

It's too early to write any rookie off for the year, let alone their career.  

[*Nately120*]

(08-13-2021, 12:41 AM)Whatever Wrote: I think Sewell will develop into a good player and would have had no issue if he(or Pitts) was our pick.  I said numerous times that he has Ogden type potential.  That said, I do feel that he's a guy that will take a year or two to develop and he wasn't a guy that was going to come in and be a quality starter as a rookie like some presented him as.

It's just funny that when you read about the struggles Sewell has had in TC the media is mostly positive because they are typical issues rookies have.  However, when you read about Chase or Carman struggling, certain Bengals beat writers and fans try to spin it as if they were bad picks, even though the guy they wanted is going through arguably worse struggles.  

It's too early to write any rookie off for the year, let alone their career.  

Well,  the Chase pick is easy for people to rag on because I'd wager the average non-Bengals fan has Burrow being beaten to a pulp behind a lousy line and being carted off the field as their most recent memory of the team.  I get it....from an outside perspective it's pretty simple.

Keep in mind, Barry Sanders retired over two decades ago and people still talk about how extra insane he would have been if he had Emmitt Smith's o-line.  Maybe a Lions fan can tell you how they needed a QB and some WRs to take focus off of stopping the run, but from the outside looking in, yea that o-line stuff makes sense.

Anyways, no one (logical) is writing off Chase right now.  Personally, I know we can't judge Chase vs Sewell until X amount of years go by, and even then we can't go back in time and switch players to prove anything.  What I do know is that if you went back to that moment when we were watching Burrow get carted off the field and you said "We need to take a WR with our top 5 pick" you would have been booed out of the room.

But the bottom line is I completely understand why the outside world thinks we are nuts for focusing on a shiny new toy after watching what happened to Burrow in 2020.  It's an overly-simplistic take, but I get it.

[tms]

(08-12-2021, 10:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: How has Terrace Marshall looked in Camp is a wonder to me...

Excellent. Already a fan fave in Carolina. Figures to start in the slot, but took reps at the X earlier this week when Anderson missed some time. Drawn early comps to Muhsin Muhammad, fwiw. 

I've always loved the kid. I think he's gonna be a consistent, low-maintenance, Swiss army knife wideout. Athleticism to burn, soft hands and unique versatility. If he stays healthy I see Demaryius Thomas/Donald Driver-esque production in his future: not the kind of "alpha" that teams build around, per se, but still a key valve in the passing game that makes everything click. The fact he's been reunited with Joe Brady in Carolina is just icing on the cake.

Terrace Marshall, as he has done w/ frequency at Panthers camp: a beautiful release, tracking/high-pointing this vertical ball.

That’s a big man doing big work.

?: @panthers

pic.twitter.com/xV9KNchumS

— John Ellis (@1PantherPlace) August 12, 2021

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">

Terrace Marshall RZ fade w/ Jaycee Horn in coverage.

?: @panthers

pic.twitter.com/CkW6E0buOi

— John Ellis (@1PantherPlace) August 8, 2021

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"&gt;&lt;/script&gt;</span>

[Luvnit2]

(08-13-2021, 01:20 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Well,  the Chase pick is easy for people to rag on because I'd wager the average non-Bengals fan has Burrow being beaten to a pulp behind a lousy line and being carted off the field as their most recent memory of the team.  I get it....from an outside perspective it's pretty simple.

Keep in mind, Barry Sanders retired over two decades ago and people still talk about how extra insane he would have been if he had Emmitt Smith's o-line.  Maybe a Lions fan can tell you how they needed a QB and some WRs to take focus off of stopping the run, but from the outside looking in, yea that o-line stuff makes sense.

Anyways, no one (logical) is writing off Chase right now.  Personally, I know we can't judge Chase vs Sewell until X amount of years go by, and even then we can't go back in time and switch players to prove anything.  What I do know is that if you went back to that moment when we were watching Burrow get carted off the field and you said "We need to take a WR with our top 5 pick" you would have been booed out of the room.

But the bottom line is I completely understand why the outside world thinks we are nuts for focusing on a shiny new toy after watching what happened to Burrow in 2020.  It's an overly-simplistic take, but I get it.

I get it too and Sewell was our projected starting RT in 2021, but we signed I think a former LT in Reiff who will be better in 2021 than Sewell. We had 1 #1 pick and needed a guard, but no guard was ranked that high so we chose a stud WR.

Keeping it simple, who will be better in 2021 (burrow needs protected now and not 2022 and beyond) Reiff or Sewell? Sewell or X at guard (or Carman or whomever wins the starting RG position?

If we had not signed Reiff, yes I would agree not taking Sewell would have been a bad decision.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-12-2021, 10:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Marshall is apparently looking really good. That pick would have scared the shit out of me though with our history of drafting 1st rounders with injury histories. Which ofc is the only reason Carolina was even able to get him where they did. I thought he was going to sneak into the first before that late medical report came out.

Yeah same, would of loved that way too. Just think Chase is better and his numbers prove it.

Also think Carman can be just as good of a Guard as Sewell even if that is an unfavorable opinion around here.

Would of loved both Drafts but it is what it is and no reason to cry over what didn't happen like some are still doing.

We will know more soon.

(08-12-2021, 11:09 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Not really. He's moving to a new position, opposite of what he's use to. "Use to" being a year and a half ago, and like Chase, he's probably still getting over the inactivity. 

He's a rookie, playing on an island, with everything backwards to what his muscle memory is.

And he's 20 years old. 

Yeah, I am just trying to help some move on from not picking Sewell and it isn't working lol

Sewell undoubtedly had the biggest upside of any OL in the Draft class.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-13-2021, 03:04 AM)tms Wrote: Excellent. Already a fan fave in Carolina. Figures to start in the slot, but took reps at the X earlier this week when Anderson missed some time. Drawn early comps to Muhsin Muhammad, fwiw. 

I've always loved the kid. I think he's gonna be a consistent, low-maintenance, Swiss army knife wideout. Athleticism to burn, soft hands and unique versatility. If he stays healthy I see Demaryius Thomas/Donald Driver-esque production in his future: not the kind of "alpha" that teams build around, per se, but still a key valve in the passing game that makes everything click. The fact he's been reunited with Joe Brady in Carolina is just icing on the cake.

Terrace Marshall, as he has done w/ frequency at Panthers camp: a beautiful release, tracking/high-pointing this vertical ball.

That’s a big man doing big work.

?: @panthers

pic.twitter.com/xV9KNchumS

— John Ellis (@1PantherPlace) August 12, 2021

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8">

Terrace Marshall RZ fade w/ Jaycee Horn in coverage.

?: @panthers

pic.twitter.com/CkW6E0buOi

— John Ellis (@1PantherPlace) August 8, 2021

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"&gt;&lt;/script&gt;</span>

Thanks man, love the way Terrace high points the ball, think he will do well.

Just think Chase could be great with how smooth he is and who is QB is if our OL plays well.

Also think Carman will be a great Guard and depth piece for us at both OT positions. Carman is great insurance if nothing else.

[fredtoast]

(08-12-2021, 09:32 PM)SladeX Wrote: This x1000. For christ sakes, it has to be apparent that the team could've addressed the G position in FA, but chose not to. Had they done this, Carmen's struggles wouldn't be a problem. Yes! They needed to invest THAT MUCH this offseason.!

They did not "chose not to".  It is my understanding that they tried to sign some of the top names.

But we had holes all over our roster and the Bengals spent A TON of money in free agency including signing the tenth highest paid RT in the league.

[tms]

(08-13-2021, 01:03 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Also think Carman will be a great Guard and depth piece for us at both OT positions. Carman is great insurance if nothing else.

Sure hope so. I'll be pulling hard for him. But he must provide more than depth. That's just the reality of it. And that's not his fault. He has no control over where he's picked or by whom. The team put him in this position and now he has to live up to the(-ir) billing. Same was true with... I won't even mention the poor kids' names. It sucks but it's the nature of sports.


Good thing is that games start tomorrow. He's earned an opportunity to play pro football and show what he's worth. It's a beautiful moment for his family that the rest of us can only dream of. Proud of him.

[XenoMorph]

(08-12-2021, 05:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Damn in a good way, forgot we were that stacked. Would have to have a injury looks like for Wren to make it, oh well.

Sure looks different than last year which is awesome where we were so thin at DT.

Tupou looks like he is having one heck of a camp which is great and Ogunjobi looks to be playing great lately.

if they all show well we might be able to trade one before cut downs

[SladeX]

(08-13-2021, 01:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They did not "chose not to".  It is my understanding that they tried to sign some of the top names.

But we had holes all over our roster and the Bengals spent A TON of money in free agency including signing the tenth highest paid RT in the league.

They were unwilling to invest enough to Get It Done. The chargers did. Our FO didn't. I don't give a damn about their excuses, or any apologies for their incompetent asses. Ultimately, I have Zero patience for people like Mike Brown, who value their ego above all else, beyond any common sensibility. And yes, I sense his fingerprints all over this issue. It's the lack of urgency that's the tell.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-12-2021, 08:04 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Agree Iim rooting for him but as far as draft I felt he was a reach with pick, I hope that does not come true

He wasn't considered that much of a reach, if at all.

Most experts/sites had him as a late 2nd to early 3rd in their rankings.

TheDraftNetwork - 69th overall (early 3rd)
Walter Football - Rd 1-2
ProFootballNetwork - 80th overall (early 3rd)
NFL.com - 3rd Round
CBS Sports - 51st overall (late 2nd)

Many considered Joseph Ossai to be an absolute steal in the 3rd, as he was projected to be an early 2nd, possibly late 1st.

Would it have made a difference if Ossai was picked at 46 and Carman was picked in the 3rd?