Teven Jenkins to have Back Surgery (Relevant to Bengals draft strategy)

[CJD]

The Chicago Bears just announced that Teven Jenkins is getting back surgery.

I remember on draft night, when he didn't go in the first round, I was surprised but really excited by the idea of us getting him in the 2nd round.

As each pick came and went and our 2nd round pick was approaching, I got really excited about the idea of getting him.

And then we traded down with him on the board, only for Chicago to take him the very next pick.

There were rumblings that the reason the Bengals passed on him was for medical reasons, but it was never really substantiated. I remember checking Chicago's forums the night they drafted him and they were insistent that he had a clean bill of health.

And then training camp began. They never put Jenkins on the PUP, but he was held out of TC from the very first day with "back tightness." I'm pretty sure he didn't take a single training camp snap outside of the rehab field before this announcement, which was kind of pre-empted by their signing of 39 year old Jason Peters.

Maybe he'll be back for 2021, maybe not. We'll have to see.

This may seem relatively unrelated to the Bengals, but I think it matters because it shows that the Bengals were not willing to risk that "injury concern" point when it came to protecting Joe Burrow. It's true that Jenkins may recover and in 2022 could be a high quality OT, but it seems the Bengals were not willing to risk that because they needed help right now.

Granted, the choice we ultimately made in the 2nd round likely won't be providing that immediate help either for completely different reasons, but one of the picks we got in the trade down, which we used to select D'Ante Smith, may actually end up being our starter at RG come week 1.

I know a lot of people, myself included, were annoyed/angry/concerned when we passed on Jenkins to trade down. I think this news at least gives validation to the Bengals who obviously were skeptical of his ability to contribute immediately, which ended up being the right call, at least in the context of fixing the Oline in real time for Joe coming back from an injury.

[QueenCity]

Looks like the Bengals staff may of known more than us Jenkins Pumpers

[BritishBengal]

It's huge and a real vindication of the Bengals draft strategy. We traded down and picked up Carmen who, sure, looks raw, but I was very impressed with some of his snaps against the Buccs.

The real kicker here is that those acquired 4ths became Smith and Shelvin and I don't think I really need to aay more. When value and volume presents itself, more often than not it's worth it.

[CJD]

(08-18-2021, 11:55 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: It's huge and a real vindication of the Bengals draft strategy. We traded down and picked up Carmen who, sure, looks raw, but I was very impressed with some of his snaps against the Buccs.

The real kicker here is that those acquired 4ths became Smith and Shelvin and I don't think I really need to aay more. When value and volume presents itself, more often than not it's worth it.

Yea, I think this really shines brightly on the Bengals draft team. I hope Carman puts it all together and starts week 1, but if he doesn't I think Smith has been a really pleasant surprise.

The more I think about Smith, the more I think we got away with a steal due to 2020's circumstances. With the pandemic kind of drawing attention away from smaller school guys, the fact that he was small school and played underweight may have got him stamped with the "project" tag before people even watched anything on him. Plus, he was injured at the beginning of 2020. Now, he's added weight and looks like a real contender for starting in week 1.

[Gdale_Bengal]

In 3 years we will see who was right and who was wrong. He is a risky pick but the bengals took a risk too. Both may not be any good.

[Luvnit2]

(08-18-2021, 11:55 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: It's huge and a real vindication of the Bengals draft strategy. We traded down and picked up Carmen who, sure, looks raw, but I was very impressed with some of his snaps against the Buccs.

The real kicker here is that those acquired 4ths became Smith and Shelvin and I don't think I really need to aay more. When value and volume presents itself, more often than not it's worth it.

I agree, Bengals seem to always be hit for drafting a guy with injury concerns (they did draft Carman who was also recovering), but it appears Bengals should get kudos for avoiding Jenkins. Darrisaw is another one hurt and appears to be not available early in 2021.

That is the thing, very hard to predict injuries for college guys making draft tough to project impact of a player in year one.

[Stewy]

Interestingly this isn't really a surprise to me. I usually read the details of the evals from the Draft simulator sites, and they did a pretty good job of flagging this potential issue. I'd say in well over half the simulations he fell into the 2nd round. The draft sites are getting better and better at evaluating.

Similarly most sites flagged that players who sat out 2020 like Chase and Sewell might have some serious rust to knock off. While some here might say "Well that's obvious", it was clear that some here were not expecting the level of rust that we've seen from some of those players, just like some didn't consider the injury red flags on several players. And while the Bengals passed on Teven, many other Tackle needy teams did as well, so kudos to the Draft sites for getting better and better and flagging the same issues as teams are recognizing and using that info in their simulators.

Hopefully Teven comes back 100% next year, but back issues are potentially ugly *cringe*. GL to him.

[SladeX]

I thought that Carman had injury concerns as well? It's being said that this played a part in his being out of shape, and his slow start... .

[BengalChris]

(08-18-2021, 11:34 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The Chicago Bears just announced that Teven Jenkins is getting back surgery.

I remember on draft night, when he didn't go in the first round, I was surprised but really excited by the idea of us getting him in the 2nd round.

As each pick came and went and our 2nd round pick was approaching, I got really excited about the idea of getting him.

And then we traded down with him on the board, only for Chicago to take him the very next pick.

There were rumblings that the reason the Bengals passed on him was for medical reasons, but it was never really substantiated. I remember checking Chicago's forums the night they drafted him and they were insistent that he had a clean bill of health.

And then training camp began. They never put Jenkins on the PUP, but he was held out of TC from the very first day with "back tightness." I'm pretty sure he didn't take a single training camp snap outside of the rehab field before this announcement, which was kind of pre-empted by their signing of 39 year old Jason Peters.

Maybe he'll be back for 2021, maybe not. We'll have to see.

This may seem relatively unrelated to the Bengals, but I think it matters because it shows that the Bengals were not willing to risk that "injury concern" point when it came to protecting Joe Burrow. It's true that Jenkins may recover and in 2022 could be a high quality OT, but it seems the Bengals were not willing to risk that because they needed help right now.

Granted, the choice we ultimately made in the 2nd round likely won't be providing that immediate help either for completely different reasons, but one of the picks we got in the trade down, which we used to select D'Ante Smith, may actually end up being our starter at RG come week 1.

I know a lot of people, myself included, were annoyed/angry/concerned when we passed on Jenkins to trade down. I think this news at least gives validation to the Bengals who obviously were skeptical of his ability to contribute immediately, which ended up being the right call, at least in the context of fixing the Oline in real time for Joe coming back from an injury.

I was like you. I see Jenkins as a 10 year starter on at RT.

We have no idea if the Bengals saw any injury concerns with Jenkins and they may just have been bought by the two 4th round picks.

(08-18-2021, 11:55 AM)BritishBengal Wrote: It's huge and a real vindication of the Bengals draft strategy. We traded down and picked up Carmen who, sure, looks raw, but I was very impressed with some of his snaps against the Buccs.

The real kicker here is that those acquired 4ths became Smith and Shelvin and I don't think I really need to aay more. When value and volume presents itself, more often than not it's worth it.

I wouldn't say that. Carmen hasn't done anything yet and we don't know when he will.

Those 4th round picks may end up being better than Carmen. None of this trading on draft day has Taylor written on it. This is Tobin's doing.

We'll have to see how things turn out in a couple of years.

 

[KillerGoose]

(08-18-2021, 12:27 PM)SladeX Wrote: I thought that Carman had injury concerns as well? It's being said that this played a part in his being out of shape, and his slow start... .

Carman had a back issue as well, though I don’t know to what extent.

[Mgbrown66]

so you're saying there's a chance!

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

The criticism of the move (trade down) was that we needed to upgrade the OL immediately to protect Burrow, and in that respect, we failed to do that because:

1) There were better prospects available than Carman, who we are swiching firm OT to G, who could contribute sooner (Eichenberg, Jenkins, Banks, Little, Cosmi, Radunz, Humphrey, Mayfield, etc).

2) The extra picks we got (Shelvin & Smith) were not likely to help much right away. Smith because he had some development to do, and Shelvin because he has Reader & Tupou ahead of him.

3) At the time of the selection, taking another OT (much less two) when OG or C seemed the area of greatest need.
--------------

I admit, I was in camp Sewell, and critical of the trade down. Not that I dislike Chase, Carman, Sample, Smith, and Shelvin as players, but because I though immediate OL help was (and is) priority #1. Our FA strategy was also disappointing regarding the OL. Reiff is good, but I think we should have been more aggressive.

Jenkins getting hurt does not necessarily validate our strategy. Though it certainly validates our decision NOT to select him. No immediate OL help from him.

Our strategy to be satified with Reiff, Pollack, Carman, & Smith as the OL upgrade pack (& Hill) is still an open question. I mean, glowing training camp reviews are something I do not put much stock in. Recall Jordan & Price last year. Spain & Jordan still look like the OG starters. Carman is #3 at RG. Fred Johnson is one snap from playing OT.

Anyway, color me still skeptical. Though I will admit, there are some bright spots. Pollack looks to have helped the existing guys some, and Smith looks closer to contributing in year 1 than I thought.

Still, an ability to run the ball (vs starters) or actually throw with something other than a 3 step drop is gonna have to be shown before I change my mind.

[GodFather]

Maybe its still fresh in their minds about the Cedric Ogbueh pick in 2015 and how well that worked out.

[Earendil]

(08-18-2021, 12:37 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Carman had a back issue as well, though I don’t know to what extent.

Carman had back surgery after the end of last season.  That was known by teams, whereas this issue with Jenkins had not yet been fixed.  In this instance, Carman's recovery was ahead of Jenkin', at least on paper.

[KillerGoose]

(08-18-2021, 12:44 PM)Earendil Wrote: Carman had back surgery after the end of last season.  That was known by teams, whereas this issue with Jenkins had not yet been fixed.  In this instance, Carman's recovery was ahead of Jenkin', at least on paper.

Oh yeah, I understand that. Carman is doing great, he’s practicing and playing. I was just saying that he had some sort of back issue as well, I just didn’t know how bad it was at the time.

[Earendil]

(08-18-2021, 12:52 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Oh yeah, I understand that. Carman is doing great, he’s practicing and playing. I was just saying that he had some sort of back issue as well, I just didn’t know how bad it was at the time.

I misread your post, sorry about that.  I think my brain merged a couple of different comments and I ended up responding to an imaginary post.  

[Mobster]

I didn't mind passing on Jenkins, because I thought he was a questionable prospect regardless of health status. Plus I was more concerned with the interior line. I wouldn't have minded Humphrey or Trey Smith in rounds 2 or 3, but Smith has health concerns too and I liked Carman. And I cant really complain about getting guys like Ossai and D'Ante Smith.

Bottom line is they now have a lot of interesting prospects with position flexibility - Carman, Smith, Adeniji, Jordan, F Johnson, Hill. And they did so much to upgrade the rest of the roster they don't have glaring holes like they did last year. So they should be able to focus on taking the O-Line from adequate to making it a strength next off season once they know what they have. Or they can take BPA

[Murdock2420]

Maybe the OL class wasn't as deep as everyone thought after all.

[fredtoast]

(08-18-2021, 12:40 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The criticism of the move (trade down) was that we needed to upgrade the OL immediately to protect Burrow, and in that respect, we failed to do that because:  

1) There were better prospects available than Carman, who we are swiching firm OT to G, who could contribute sooner (Eichenberg, Jenkins, Banks, Little, Cosmi, Radunz, Humphrey, Mayfield, etc).

So you are still saying that Jenkins and Banks are going to contribute sooner that Carman despite being out with injuries?  

Walter Little is a back up in Jacksonville. 

Radunz is a back up for the Titans.  

Humphrey is a center which we did not need. 

Mayfield is a back up for the Falcons

[EasyPeasy]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Most fan draft pundits don't think about trades correctly. The bengals didn't just get the two guys with the extra picks - the extra picks then affected additional picks down the line. With the holes plugged in the fourth, the bengals were able to pick a top kicker prospect in the fifth. All picks from the fourth round on would likely have been different guys without the trade.