QB Index - Week 1

[TJ528]

(09-09-2021, 10:03 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is off a quick glance, but Herbert was ahead of Burrow by about 20 YPG (289 to 268) last season. Burrow took a hit there because of the WFT game but Herbert also played 15 games, which boosts his ‘per game’ numbers.

Herbert had higher rating, yards per game, touchdowns per game, higher completion percentage and a bunch of other stats such as yards per attempt etc. He also scored five touchdowns rushing.

Herbert was really, really good last season.

Killer, shshhh dont say it so loud that Herbert was really really good last season. 

Bengals fans still won't believe you the king all mighty Joe Burrow wasn't as good as Herbert lol

Listen Joe could have a stellar year and he could struggle for 8 games then light it up for 9 games. 

No one knows what Joe's going to be like after handing off twice and throwing a horrible screen pass.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-10-2021, 08:47 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: they also dont have 8 losses on their record.

Neither does Burrow. He’s technically 2-7-1.

Plus, he had us in the lead against the WFT when he went down, so that loss is pretty unfair to pin on him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

It's okay for the author to have doubts. Sure, whatever.

Saying Burrow "missed the offseason" is just laziness. Dude has no clue.

[jj22]

So I guess the argument that Herbert should have been the pick is gaining steam....

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(09-10-2021, 12:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: So I guess the argument that Herbert should have been the pick is gaining steam....

Honestly it would not have mattered one bit in 2020 who the Bengals lined up behind center: Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Peyton Manning, or Johnny Unitas back from the dead.

[Earendil]

(09-10-2021, 08:47 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: they also dont have 8 losses on their record.

How many of those 8 7 (thanks Nicomo) losses were Joe's fault?

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2021, 12:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: So I guess the argument that Herbert should have been the pick is gaining steam....

1st overall pick QBs have a hard road ahead of them, because it'll always be "known" that the team that picked you "could have taken any of the other QBs in your class and received a haul of picks in the process."

Miami floated the idea of trading up to 3 1st round picks to trade up to take Burrow and we went with Burrow.  I clearly don't think we were stupid to turn that down, but I also realize that once you turn that down you are upping the pressure on the QB you take and enabling the world to slam your choice if any other QB is better than or even close to the guy you took in terms of production.  It ain't fair, but life ain't fair.

Burrow has to be the best QB in his class, and in addition to that he has to be better than every other QB in his class plus what people would dream three 1st round picks could garner.  It's a quite a feat to prove yourself better than a scenario people can only imagine, because people imagine some pretty lofty things.

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2021, 12:35 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Honestly it would not have mattered one bit in 2020 who the Bengals lined up behind center: Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Peyton Manning, or Johnny Unitas back from the dead.

Maybe, maybe not.  I recall thinking the Bengals should have traded down and gathered talent to put around Rex Grossman or Kyle Boller rather than taking Palmer at #1 overall...in hindsight what would we have lost?  Two miserable playoff losses in the first round?  Who knows...and that's the issue.  We can only speculate. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Hmmm...
1. Mahomes (=)
2. Rodgers (=)
3. Brady (+1)
4. R Wilson (+2)
5. Tannehill (+4)
6. Allen (-3)
7. Jackson (-2)
8. Prescott (=)
9. Herbert (-2)
10. Ryan (+2)
11. Stafford (+2)
12. Murray (-2)
13. Mayfield (+1)
14. Cousins (+1)
15. Carr (-4)
16. Roethlisberger (=)
17. Garoppolo (+1)
18. Goff (+9)
19. Winston (=)
20. Wentz (+4)
21. Dalton (+9)
22. Burrow (+4)
23. Fitzpatrick (-6)
24. Tagovailoa (+1)
25. Bridgewater (+3)
26. Taylor (+5)
27. Hurts (+2)
28. D Jones (-6)
29. Darnold (+3)
Unranked. Rookies (Lawrence, M Jones, Z Wilson)

Seems silly to rank rookie QBs who have played 0 NFL snaps ahead of guys who have. It's kind of a pointless exercise so I just generally don't include them.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-10-2021, 12:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Maybe, maybe not.  I recall thinking the Bengals should have traded down and gathered talent to put around Rex Grossman or  Kyle Boller rather than taking Palmer at #1 overall...in hindsight what would we have lost?  Two miserable playoff losses in the first round?  Who knows...and that's the issue.  We can only speculate. 

They would have brought in someone else for QB though, because I would literally give up an entire draft worth of picks to not have to watch Ryan Finley QB for an entire 16 game season. Lol

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-09-2021, 10:35 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: *lazy points. What's logical about ignorance?


No one needs to say they'll be fine, that's a bit extreme and illogical. Do a little homework though and at least have a clue what you're writing about. 

Not too much to ask...

Dude gets paid to write this shit.

(09-09-2021, 10:40 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: LOL. 

Jameis Winston
3 rookies that haven't played in the NFL yet
Daniel Jones
Carson Wentz
Tua

All ahead of Burrow. superlulz

Burrow should be right around 17ish.

lol

(09-09-2021, 11:11 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So up till the injury, Burrow was getting glowing reports and was considered the frontrunner for RoY by pretty much everyone, on a bad team. 

They added a quality vet at RT to match the quality LT (notice there's no hyperbole here--just 2 solid, better than average tackles). They have two Gs that protected the QB well the 2nd half of the year last year, during the several games they were able to play while healthy. They have 2 young Gs as backups that are easily better than what they trotted out there the last couple years. They have a top 5 passblocking C. Yes, past injuries are a concern with 3 of the 5, but that part about seeing it during the season applies here too. Until they get injured, it's not a problem this year. 

He talked about his lack of arm strength. There's quanifiable proof as well as anecdotal evidence--from the players themselves--that his ball has more zip. 

He (Rosenthal) is "speculating" about all 32 QBs, so the speculation on Burrow isn't any different than on any other QB. 

The bottom line is, if you're going to step in the kitchen and start cooking (writing articles/giving your opinion) you damn well better be able to take the heat when you don't bother doing any homework or put any effort into providing context on bad, lazy takes. 

I'm not taking anything too seriously. I'm commenting on a bad take and providing examples of where he's wrong. I really don't care how the national media sees the Bengals. The Bengals haven't given anyone reason to be positive over the last 5 years and especially the last 2. The QBs i named in another post, that are above Burrow, are simply laughable based on pure talent, ability and past results alone. 

If i were going to create a thread on here about another team's QB, you better believe i'm going to do some research on him and not just spew 'hot takes' based on what i've seen in the past. I don't think that's too much to ask of a national writer. 

To put a nice bow on all this, journalism these days isn't really journalism anymore. It's just shitty hot takes for clicks and Rosenthal is a guy that likes to hog the bathroom. 

Spot on.

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2021, 01:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They would have brought in someone else for QB though, because I would literally give up an entire draft worth of picks to not have to watch Ryan Finley QB for an entire 16 game season. Lol

Wait, I thought I was talking about 2003....or are we talking about trading down in 2020?

Yeah, if we trade down in 2020 we get Miami's 4th overall pick and other 1st rounders etc and we can take any of the other QBs.  That's the thing, we could have had Herbert and "a buncha picks" so Burrow has to be better than the rest of his QB class plus what people think we could have gotten with Miami's 1st rounders.

[jj22]

(09-10-2021, 01:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They would have brought in someone else for QB though, because I would literally give up an entire draft worth of picks to not have to watch Ryan Finley QB for an entire 16 game season. Lol

or tanked for Trevor who I still think Burrow is better then, but who knows now after I missed on Herbert. 

[jj22]

(09-10-2021, 01:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Wait, I thought I was talking about 2003....or are we talking about trading down in 2020?

Yeah, if we trade down in 2020 we get Miami's 4th overall pick and other 1st rounders etc and we can take any of the other QBs.  That's the thing, we could have had Herbert and "a buncha picks" so Burrow has to be better than the rest of his QB class plus what people think we could have gotten with Miami's 1st rounders.

Yea, I would think we would have then taken Herbert but who knows with my luck rooting for this team we may have ended up taking Tua. 

[DesertBengal]

As a Bengals fan you come to expect a certain amount of disrespect and general lack of informed takes from the National Media...  And you develop a thick skin about for it.  But this QB Index is just plain irritating.  

Ranking rookies, who haven't played a live snap above Burrow is pure disrespect.

[motoarch]

Ehh. Let people think what they want.

If he performs then it won't matter.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-09-2021, 02:55 PM)jj22 Wrote: Burrow not getting any respect. Can we still consider him a media darling?

https://www.nfl.com/news/qb-index-week-1-ranking-all-32-starters-entering-2021-nfl-season

Bengals Twitter is all up in arms.

I find it fascinating national media has Burrow so far behind Herbert in general. I know Herbert had a great (healthy) year, but it's becoming not even close in the eyes of the pundits. You'd think Burrow was a bust.

I'm gonna (attempt to) defend the article on this one in regards to Burrow's low ranking.

Joe Burrow's efficiency ranks last year:
Completion percentage - 22nd (65.3%, which is still good)
QB Rating - 24th (89.8)

I think he'll climb the rankings, but I can understand why he'd be ranked in the 20's. That's where he was last year in terms of efficiency, and there are a lot of question marks.

EDIT - It is weird that Herbert is so much higher though. Herbert did (far) better than many expected, and he should have a (much) better OL, but he wasn't really that much better than Burrow.

Had Burrow played the full 16 games like Herbert, here's how their stats would have compared:
Burrow - 65.3% completion, 4300 yards, 21 pass TDs, 8 INTs, 442 rush yards, 5 rush TDs, 6 fumbles lost, 89.8 QB Rating
Herbert - 66.6% completion, 4336 yards, 31 pass TDs, 10 INTs, 234 rush yards, 5 rush TDs, 1 fumble lost, 98.3 QB Rating

[*Nately120*]

(09-10-2021, 03:10 PM)DesertBengal Wrote: As a Bengals fan you come to expect a certain amount of disrespect and general lack of informed takes from the National Media...  And you develop a thick skin about for it.  But this QB Index is just plain irritating.  

Ranking rookies, who haven't played a live snap above Burrow is pure disrespect.

Meh, prior to his rookie season Burrow was ranked above 9 QBs with NFL experience.  Putting every rookie at #32 is a bit of a cop out, I think.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Comparing Joe Burrow with Justin Herbert or Tua Tagovailoa isn’t fair to any of these three quarterbacks. Each of the three were picked by teams in different stages of rebuilding. Tua joined a Miami team who went 10-6, the Chargers went 7-9, and the Bengals finished an abysmal 4-11-1.

If these three quarterbacks had been drafted by different teams i.e. Tua to Cincinnati, Justin to Miami, and Joe to Los Angeles I am having trouble justifying how the teams’ 2020 win-loss records would have been much different.

Let’s say hypothetically Mike Brown and Zac Taylor rolled the dice in the spring of 2020 and drafted Tua Tagovailoa. In fact, before Joe Burrow’s outstanding final year at LSU I thought that’s exactly what would happen in Cincinnati. Tua would have inherited the same situation Joe Burrow did with an inexperienced coaching staff, a waddling flinching false starting leaky offensive line who can’t run block or pass block well, and a playbook which looks like it was put together by Dr. Frankenstein.

Like it or not, Hue Jackson and Jay Gruden were the best offensive coordinators the Bengals had in the last decade. Those two men put together an offensive playbook which was so effective even Andy Dalton and AJ McCarron made it work. I’m sure Brian Callahan is doing his best but he’s not at the Jackson/Gruden level of proficiency.

I’m 100% certain Joe Burrow is a zillion times better than Andy Dalton or AJ McCarron in every aspect of the game. He is a once in a lifetime generational player and the Cincinnati Bengals are fortunate to have him. However, even a generational player will suffer and underachieve when surrounded by mediocre players and substandard coaches. The comparison I made after the 2020 draft with respect to Joe Burrow is Archie Manning. If any other team besides the New Orleans Saints had picked Archie he would have won multiple Super Bowl rings. I want Joe Burrow to have a career more like Peyton or Eli Manning than their father.