It's a passing league

[Stewy]

(09-11-2021, 02:02 PM)Tony Wrote: Brady and Dak just went for 50 attempts each. All the people wanting to pound the rock are gonna be disappointed.. Zack already loves to air it out and we are setup for that. Expect 40+ attempts from Burrow..

NOTE:  Dak passed 50 times and lost even with a +3 TO ratio......just sayin

[Frank Booth]

(09-11-2021, 08:55 PM)Whatever Wrote: Of course, if you run the ball more often, your RB is more likely to get injured.  It's not like our star RB isn't also coming off a season ending injury.  In fact, he got injured before Burrow with what you're saying is a light workload.  Can Joe handle the workload?  There is a sharp dropoff to Perrine and unknowns behind him.  If Joe goes down again, we're going to be one dimensional on offense again, whether anybody wants that or not.

You can't put your QB or your RB on a pitch count. You call the game to try and win.  You can't win calling the game scared.  

Joe Mixon really isn’t a star. Plus rb’s have a short shelf life.

It’s about helping burrow. The qb. A crappy run game and having him throw a ton isn’t ideal

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Zac Taylor set the Bengals’ offense up for success in the NFC West.

[*Nately120*]

(09-11-2021, 03:39 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Which will lead to another trip to the IR for Burrow. 

Each time a QB drops back he runs the risk of injury. So the more passes and more predictable the offense becomes the higher the likelihood of another injury becomes. It is simply the law of averages.

Everyone all excited for 50 plus attempts a game must love Brandon Allen.

Burrow was on the IR last year and Mixon only played 6 games.  God help us, if we try anything on offense, we're screwed.

[Joelist]

Dallas threw it a lot because Tampa lost a starting CB and starting S to injury and running on Tampa doesn't work. Also it was a sloppy game with TB having three turnovers including one at the goal line that puts the game away had the TB receiver held on.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dallas threw more because of the circumstances relating to the Tampa defense. Sure.

It's also true that it's a passing league more than ever and teams are just plain going to throw the ball a lot. I don't know what folks are hoping for here exactly, but the days of quarterbacks consistently throwing 25 passes and winning games are pretty much over. Joe Burrow is going to throw a lot of passes almost every week regardless of defenses.

[Murdock2420]

(09-11-2021, 05:58 PM)Synric Wrote: Football is a physical sport you cannot played scared. Letting injury chances dictate your offense is stupid.

I don't expect a heavy pass offense with what we seen in the pre-season but I also expect Burrow to have a decent amount pass attempts around 30 to 35.

Honestly, while 30 to 35 is a more balanced and better number, the problem isn't just attempts.

I saw briefly another poster going on about QBs that did it and survived, but what that fails to mention is none of those guys stood back there in an empty set with no RB and 5 wide over and over tossing the rock. 

Standing there empty set for 40 passing attempts each week is just dumb. It may work in college, but in the NFL CBs can cover better and if the DL knows the run isn't an option and can tee off, they will get home. 

40 attempts might not be an issue if there was play action involved and a RB in there to pick up the blitz or at least slow the line down on their rush.

My statement about the 40 attempts getting Burrow injuried again is a direct coorelation to the fact that most of those attempts will come with no RB or the RB being split out wide. I know Burrow is supposed to be more comfortable in that set up, but that will not work in the NFL. 

[Whatever]

(09-12-2021, 01:06 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Honestly, while 30 to 35 is a more balanced and better number, the problem isn't just attempts.

I saw briefly another poster going on about QBs that did it and survived, but what that fails to mention is none of those guys stood back there in an empty set with no RB and 5 wide over and over tossing the rock. 

Standing there empty set for 40 passing attempts each week is just dumb. It may work in college, but in the NFL CBs can cover better and if the DL knows the run isn't an option and can tee off, they will get home. 

40 attempts might not be an issue if there was play action involved and a RB in there to pick up the blitz or at least slow the line down on their rush.

My statement about the 40 attempts getting Burrow injuried again is a direct coorelation to the fact that most of those attempts will come with no RB or the RB being split out wide. I know Burrow is supposed to be more comfortable in that set up, but that will not work in the NFL. 

Bernard was in the backfield blocking on the play Burrow got hurt.

The Bengals had 5 WR's on the field on only 16 plays last year, so I'm not sure where you're coming up with a large chunk of plays coming with no RB on the field.  Being primarily an 11 personnel team, typically the RB and/or TE will at least chip before releasing.  

Play action is only as effective as your ability to run the ball.  It's a tool, but in an AFCN division where it's notoriously hard to run the ball, it's often going to be ineffective.  Leaving more guys in to block has its own issues.  It keeps more guys in the box and allows teams to disguise the blitz better.  It also invites DC's to blitz more.  Spreading the field makes it a lot harder to blitz and leave uncovered targets and also makes it a lot harder to disguise blitzes.  There are pluses and minuses to both when it comes to protecting the QB.

[Murdock2420]

(09-12-2021, 01:47 AM)Whatever Wrote: Bernard was in the backfield blocking on the play Burrow got hurt.

The Bengals had 5 WR's on the field on only 16 plays last year, so I'm not sure where you're coming up with a large chunk of plays coming with no RB on the field.  Being primarily an 11 personnel team, typically the RB and/or TE will at least chip before releasing.  

Play action is only as effective as your ability to run the ball.  It's a tool, but in an AFCN division where it's notoriously hard to run the ball, it's often going to be ineffective.  Leaving more guys in to block has its own issues.  It keeps more guys in the box and allows teams to disguise the blitz better.  It also invites DC's to blitz more.  Spreading the field makes it a lot harder to blitz and leave uncovered targets and also makes it a lot harder to disguise blitzes.  There are pluses and minuses to both when it comes to protecting the QB.

cool... great... awesome.

Cause, that database which you don't bother to link your source on, I'm 100% sure counts every time a guy is motioned out of the backfield which I specifically said in my statement about them sending the back out of the backfield in motion and there is an article... 

look a source https://www.espn.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/32548/empty-feeling-how-bengals-are-using-rbs-differently-to-help-joe-burrow

"Those are things that we've done a handful of certainly over the last season," Bengals offensive coordinator Brian Callahan said. "Joe is comfortable with the formation spread out. I would be hard-pressed to think of anyone running more empty [sets] than us at this point."

talking about exactly what I was saying. That Burrow likes to work from an empty set. So... an empty set means no one back behind the QB, just because a RB is out there on the field, doesn't mean he is in a position to you know... run. 

For example, you said look at the play Burrow got hurt. Okay, let's do that. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hnVvGvdvFc

Click on the link and have a look and you'll see that Gio is on the field, but... is he in any position where he can run the ball from? That would be absolutely not. Is Burrow back there, by himself telling the defense before the snap "Hey, we are going pass so you can just storm up field"? Well that would be a yes.

This is why I just don't engage with you. You spin things to fit what you want to push. Reality. The QB for the Bengals got hurt from being in obvious passing situations (be it formation or down and distance or just because anyone with a brain could see Taylor was going to throw it over and over and over) far too often and taking too many hits. Everyone who knows basic football saw the injury coming and was talking about it. But hey, let's do the same shit this year and you can print out another list of QBs with two knee surgeries who won a Super Bowl.

You come out with Manning threw it 40 times but totally neglect the fact immediately after that season is when he had his neck surgery that ended his time in Indy. You also neglected that when he did it in Denver it was on a team that had a good RB (Moreno went for over 1000 yards), was well coached and had a good line. What part of that do you see in Cincinnati? The only QB you listed that is a true "wow, how did that happen" is Stafford in Detroit. That team was terrible for years, and he survived. The rest of the guys you listed Drew Brees (Alvin Kamara Sean Payton), Roethlisberger (Bettis, Bell, Cowher, Tomlin) Matt Ryan (Mike Smith who at the time had come off 5 straight winning seasons including two 13 win seasons), Warren Moon (Jack Pardee then Terry Allen's 1000 yard season and Dennis Green), Phillip River (Melvin Gordon). 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-11-2021, 05:55 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: “ Last year 4 of the top 5 rushing attempt teams were in the playoffs. Only 2 of the top 5 passing attempt teams were in the playoffs.”

The cope from the fanboys is unreal.

Listen, I like our passing attack, but the run game has to be established.

You do realize that the Bengals had MORE rushing attempts during the season than either of the two Super Bowl teams did right? In fact TB was on the opposite end of that spectrum, they were 4th Lowest in Rushing attempts for the season.

I'd prefer balance as well, but a run heavy offense isn't the only way to get to the SB.

[Sled21]

We finally have what should be an elite QB, and now nobody wants us to pass the ball. Weird.

[*Synric*]

(09-12-2021, 02:41 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: cool... great... awesome.

Cause, that database which you don't bother to link your source on, I'm 100% sure counts every time a guy is motioned out of the backfield which I specifically said in my statement about them sending the back out of the backfield in motion and there is an article... 

look a source https://www.espn.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/32548/empty-feeling-how-bengals-are-using-rbs-differently-to-help-joe-burrow

"Those are things that we've done a handful of certainly over the last season," Bengals offensive coordinator Brian Callahan said. "Joe is comfortable with the formation spread out. I would be hard-pressed to think of anyone running more empty [sets] than us at this point."

talking about exactly what I was saying. That Burrow likes to work from an empty set. So... an empty set means no one back behind the QB, just because a RB is out there on the field, doesn't mean he is in a position to you know... run. 

For example, you said look at the play Burrow got hurt. Okay, let's do that. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hnVvGvdvFc

Click on the link and have a look and you'll see that Gio is on the field, but... is he in any position where he can run the ball from? That would be absolutely not. Is Burrow back there, by himself telling the defense before the snap "Hey, we are going pass so you can just storm up field"? Well that would be a yes.

This is why I just don't engage with you. You spin things to fit what you want to push. Reality. The QB for the Bengals got hurt from being in obvious passing situations (be it formation or down and distance or just because anyone with a brain could see Taylor was going to throw it over and over and over) far too often and taking too many hits. Everyone who knows basic football saw the injury coming and was talking about it. But hey, let's do the same shit this year and you can print out another list of QBs with two knee surgeries who won a Super Bowl.

You come out with Manning threw it 40 times but totally neglect the fact immediately after that season is when he had his neck surgery that ended his time in Indy. You also neglected that when he did it in Denver it was on a team that had a good RB (Moreno went for over 1000 yards), was well coached and had a good line. What part of that do you see in Cincinnati? The only QB you listed that is a true "wow, how did that happen" is Stafford in Detroit. That team was terrible for years, and he survived. The rest of the guys you listed Drew Brees (Alvin Kamara Sean Payton), Roethlisberger (Bettis, Bell, Cowher, Tomlin) Matt Ryan (Mike Smith who at the time had come off 5 straight winning seasons including two 13 win seasons), Warren Moon (Jack Pardee then Terry Allen's 1000 yard season and Dennis Green), Phillip River (Melvin Gordon). 

Empty Set are becoming more common in the NFL. The league average was 14.25%. Teams like the Rams, Steelers, Washington, Ravens, and Buccaneers were all top 10 in empty sets. 

[Murdock2420]

(09-12-2021, 10:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: We finally have what should be an elite QB, and now nobody wants us to pass the ball. Weird.

No one is saying don't pass...jesus.... Everyone is saying be more balanced, use play action and don't telegraph your plays. I mean, that's common sense.

(09-12-2021, 11:01 AM)Synric Wrote: Empty Set are becoming more common in the NFL. The league average was 14.25%. Teams like the Rams, Steelers, Washington, Ravens, and Buccaneers were all top 10 in empty sets. 

So teams with really good lines, and good coaches you mean? (Steelers line was good until this season of course).

This team doesn't have that talent on the line or in the coaching ranks. Seriously, would anyone honestly take Taylor over Rivera, Tomlin, Hairball, McVay, or Arians? They have the talent to pull that off, or guys that are coached up to protect their guy. This team has not shown that.

[*Synric*]

(09-12-2021, 11:09 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: No one is saying don't pass...jesus.... Everyone is saying be more balanced, use play action and don't telegraph your plays. I mean, that's common sense.


So teams with really good lines, and good coaches you mean? (Steelers line was good until this season of course).

This team doesn't have that talent on the line or in the coaching ranks. Seriously, would anyone honestly take Taylor over Rivera, Tomlin, Hairball, McVay, or Arians? They have the talent to pull that off, or guys that are coached up to protect their guy. This team has not shown that.

Empty Sets help with pass protection.

[The D.O.Z.]

Joe may have to throw it 35+ every week. If we’re playing from behind or the team we’re playing is super stout against the run, how else are we going to win? Defense and special teams? While I do forsee an improvement for our defense, I don’t expect they’ll carry the team THIS year. And our run blocking has been suspect to flat out bad for multiple seasons now, that’s not gonna change overnight.

Like someone earlier posted, the days of QBs throwing 20-25 times per game and WINNING are gone. And if they aren’t, they’re rare.

[Bengalitis]

The VIKINGS know we will be running it a lot... hope our coaches came up with a plan to out-wit the vikings.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

September 12, 2021

36 runs.
27 passes.
1 win.

[Murdock2420]

(09-12-2021, 06:14 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: September 12, 2021

36 runs.
27 passes.
1 win.

If they keep that kind of balance all year long, they will be tough to deal with.