Ja'Marr Chase and Joe Burrow criticize the offensive play calling

[jj22]

(09-20-2021, 12:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Idk if you can really consider it garbage time. They were a Hendrickson tackle away from getting the ball back down by only 3.

Would you say week 1 that the Lions scored all those points in garbage time. They pulled within 7 by end of game, but were down like 33-7 with 10 minutes left (or something like that). 

The score made the game look more competitive than it really was.

[TJ528]

(09-20-2021, 12:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Idk if you can really consider it garbage time. They were a Hendrickson tackle away from getting the ball back down by only 3.

Nicomo,  see that's where my issue comes into play.   I used to be like you from about 92-02 and it was like "Damn if only Blake and Pickens got the ball back we would've won that game".....know how many times I said that in the 90's ....too many to count.  

It seriously was a game of "whats gonna happen cause you know the Bengals are gonna f*** this up somehow" when they were up by 3 or 7 late in the 4th quarter.  

Thats how yesterday felt.  You can say the Bengals were 1 Hendrickson tackle from getting the ball back and only down by 3.  However, Hendrickson should've made that tackle.  He had both hands around him.  Thats a tackle that should be made 10 out of 10 times.  However, this was the most Bengal thing to happen, Fields slips out of Hendrcksons grasp and get gets a first down. 

[Joelist]

Let's add "why no Chris Evans" to the list:

Why no Max Protect (keep RB/TE in to help)?

Why no Chris Evans? Maybe unlike Perine or Mixon he will actually DO his blocking assignment

Why keep throwing short when they are sitting on it?

Why so stinking much empty backfield?

Taylor's gameplan literally refused to try to exploit any weakness in the defense and in fact leaned right into its strength.

[DesertBengal]

(09-20-2021, 12:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Oh, trust me, I've already said I did not like yesterdays play calling, but I kind of understand it. The run was not really effective, but they stayed with it. Khalil Mack and Robert Quinn are going to dictate you can't have a lot of time for longer plays to develop. I want to see more shots downfield as well, but I also don't want to see Burrow limping off the field again.

This is exactly the problem with having a bad o-line.  It is dictating what the Bengals can and can't do on offense.

Plays are being called to hide the o-line and protect Burrow, which is limiting what can be done.

That being said, Zac went too far and called an unimaginative and uninspired game.   

[Mickeypoo]

(09-19-2021, 08:00 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Mike Brown made a Carl Pickens clause in contracts once upon a time about speaking out against him and coaches and such. If he is still the owner, there is no promise he will back the players over the coach his daughter picked.

So basically Mike Brown is "censorship" and the players complaining about Brown and coaches are the "dis-information" that must be stopped. 

[impactplaya]

Zac is more concerned about his ego
And smartest guy in the room attitude
Then exploiting the weakness of a defense.
He wants to be in conversation of great NFL
Offensive minds.
Having a Arena League playbook wont cut it

[*PhilHos*]

(09-20-2021, 12:47 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Is Chris Evans just a piss-poor blocker?  Why isn't he getting a shot?

Didn't have his shield with him.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

It is true. Have to take shots early against that team in their house. It would of got the D back on their heels a bit and
opened things up. Honestly we moved the ball well but the crowd was able to get into it like I feared and than Mack and
Quinn and that DL could just pin back their ears on us. I like how Burrow and company fought back after those 3 picks
in a row but the play calling needs to get much better.

If this is on Taylor he needs to step aside as we have said for the last couple of years.

You evidently aren't the brain child you think you are. Let Callahan give it a try who seems like a smart dude.

Don't put too much on your plate Zac or you are gone. Have to get into the playoffs and win a game to stick around.

[Joelist]

(09-20-2021, 01:24 PM)DesertBengal Wrote: This is exactly the problem with having a bad o-line.  It is dictating what the Bengals can and can't do on offense.

Plays are being called to hide the o-line and protect Burrow, which is limiting what can be done.

That being said, Zac went too far and called an unimaginative and uninspired game.   

Those plays did not hide the OL; they did the exact reverse. By not going deep and not using max protect and especially the empty backfield crap they allowed the Bears to pin their ears back and go at the 5 man OL which was getting no assists from backs or TEs. Add in Burrow not moving in the pocket at all and the real question is why only 4 sacks?

[Murdock2420]

(09-20-2021, 02:49 PM)Joelist Wrote: Those plays did not hide the OL; they did the exact reverse. By not going deep and not using max protect and especially the empty backfield crap they allowed the Bears to pin their ears back and go at the 5 man OL which was getting no assists from backs or TEs. Add in Burrow not moving in the pocket at all and the real question is why only 4 sacks?

How many times was he hit?

And how many of the incomplete passes (19/30) were from the DL pressure impacting the throw. Certainly the one INT was from that.

[Whatever]

(09-20-2021, 12:46 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, the backs have stunk so far in pass pro. Mixon and Perine have 2 of the bottom 3 pass pro grades on the team right now.

You combine backs that can't pick up rushers and TE's that are missing assignments, with an o-line that is still very inconsistent...you've got protection issues across the board. Add in that Burrow still holds on the ball far too long at times...there's just a lot that has to be worked on and corrected going forward.

It's very concerning the amount of assignment errors out there by the backs, TE's, and OL.  We thought this was a Jim Turner issue and it would improve under Pollack, but it hasn't so far.  Hopefully, it's a byproduct of them shuffling the deck too much to find a starting 5 and the guys have to settle in next to each other.  In fairness, we aren't seeing assignment issues out of any other position group, so it appears to be isolated to pass pro.  There's still talent issues in the IOL, but it would be manageable if people could just block the right guys.

Joe still holds the ball too long.  In fact, it seems worse than last year.  I wonder if limiting his attempts is causing him to press more when he does throw.  Somebody needs to break him of this, for his own sake.  

We could run screens to supplement the run game, but we don't have a good receiving RB.  They are sadly paying Mixon $12 mil a year to effectively be a 2 down back.  Maybe Evans grows into that role.

Chase is correct.  With suspect pass pro, teams are going to sit on quick routes and the only way to move them off of that is to mix in deep shots.  Fortunately, his success with the deep ball early will force teams to account for it.

[Joelist]

(09-20-2021, 02:54 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: How many times was he hit?

And how many of the incomplete passes (19/30) were from the DL pressure impacting the throw. Certainly the one INT was from that.

Not many passes were incomplete because of pressure. Contrary to the narrative on this board Burrow actually had time to throw on a lot of passes and a pocket. Also he just stood there without moving and held the ball a long time (on at least one sack he held the ball for 6 seconds). 

The exact remedy to the Bears D plan was to max protect and throw it deep. Taylor however coached scared and his own players have started to notice it and bring it up. His stupid empty backfield is a sack waiting to happen (which is why most teams only use it rarely). Also did you notice we literally did none of the usual thing offenses do to get a defense to slow down (screens, rollouts, traps)? It was like Taylor was scheming to make the Bears D look as good as possible. 

[Murdock2420]

(09-20-2021, 03:05 PM)Joelist Wrote: Not many passes were incomplete because of pressure. Contrary to the narrative on this board Burrow actually had time to throw on a lot of passes and a pocket. Also he just stood there without moving and held the ball a long time (on at least one sack he held the ball for 6 seconds). 

The exact remedy to the Bears D plan was to max protect and throw it deep. Taylor however coached scared and his own players have started to notice it and bring it up. His stupid empty backfield is a sack waiting to happen (which is why most teams only use it rarely). Also did you notice we literally did none of the usual thing offenses do to get a defense to slow down (screens, rollouts, traps)? It was like Taylor was scheming to make the Bears D look as good as possible. 

Fair enough, I honestly was asking since I wasn't watching it super close in the moment. The game was rather dull and I was hitting the Red Zone a good amount to see what was happening in other games around the league.

[Joelist]

(09-20-2021, 03:21 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Fair enough, I honestly was asking since I wasn't watching it super close in the moment. The game was rather dull and I was hitting the Red Zone a good amount to see what was happening in other games around the league.

What made it so aggravating was seeing the faulty game plan and seeing Burrow stand there like a tree with the ball and counting seconds off instead of rolling out like a QB should. Also the lack of deep throws until he finally went to Chase and got a TD. This loss is squarely on Zac Taylor. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-20-2021, 02:49 PM)Joelist Wrote: Those plays did not hide the OL; they did the exact reverse. By not going deep and not using max protect and especially the empty backfield crap they allowed the Bears to pin their ears back and go at the 5 man OL which was getting no assists from backs or TEs. Add in Burrow not moving in the pocket at all and the real question is why only 4 sacks?

I think the final tally was 5 sacks and 9 QB hits.  A gameplan with so much focus on short/quick plays and Burrow gets nailed 9 times to go with the 5 times he didn't get the ball out seems to tell the tale. Or does a sack also count as a hit? So 5 sacks and 4 hits, total?

[impactplaya]

Zac has no.idea on how to dictate tempo
To defense. He is not a proactive coach
He is a reactive coach.

[*pally*]

Zac Taylor stating what many assumed, "We had some shots called and sometimes the coverage takes it away" in regards to the deep ball.

No, we're not going to get detail on this. No reason to explain what went wrong to make an opponent's work easier.

— ?????????????? (@BengalsCaptain) September 20, 2021

[Joelist]

(09-20-2021, 03:29 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think the final tally was 5 sacks and 9 QB hits.  A gameplan with so much focus on short/quick plays and Burrow gets nailed 9 times to go with the 5 times he didn't get the ball out seems to tell the tale. Or does a sack also count as a hit?  So 5 sacks and 4 hits, total?

Especially when the plays were NOT "quick". He was taking a while to throw which made it worse. It was 4 sacks 5 hits. Even when he had a clear pocket (on roughly 2/3rds of drop backs) he just stood there and held the ball. 

[Dr.Z]

(09-20-2021, 03:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: It's very concerning the amount of assignment errors out there by the backs, TE's, and OL.  We thought this was a Jim Turner issue and it would improve under Pollack, but it hasn't so far.  Hopefully, it's a byproduct of them shuffling the deck too much to find a starting 5 and the guys have to settle in next to each other.  In fairness, we aren't seeing assignment issues out of any other position group, so it appears to be isolated to pass pro.  There's still talent issues in the IOL, but it would be manageable if people could just block the right guys.

Joe still holds the ball too long.  In fact, it seems worse than last year.  I wonder if limiting his attempts is causing him to press more when he does throw.  Somebody needs to break him of this, for his own sake.  

We could run screens to supplement the run game, but we don't have a good receiving RB.  They are sadly paying Mixon $12 mil a year to effectively be a 2 down back.  Maybe Evans grows into that role.

Chase is correct.  With suspect pass pro, teams are going to sit on quick routes and the only way to move them off of that is to mix in deep shots.  Fortunately, his success with the deep ball early will force teams to account for it.

If you want to complain about utilization then I get it , but  but you are wrong here.

[Whatever]

(09-20-2021, 04:47 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: If you want to complain about utilization then I get it , but  but you are wrong here.

Who do we have that's a good receiving back?  Evans flashed last game, so maybe he can be that guy, but I don't see any proven one.