Joe Brady?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-21-2021, 08:36 PM)northernbengal Wrote: Someone said this earlier but I think it is the root issue with this question. Some people are worried that going for another young coach could put us right back where we are at. However, I think with a QB on a rookie contract you have to go big or go home. There are no former NFL HC with the chops to get us in the playoffs. If this defense keeps up I think it's fairly obvious that the red carpet should be rolled out for Joe Brady and Lou should be kept around. Honestly if we finish bottom 10 we could draft an elite corner or offensive lineman and be an immediate playoff contender.

If Waynes doesn’t play extremely well once he finally gets on the field I would love to draft Stingley from LSU (although I hope we aren’t bad enough to get him). We have a potential out in Waynes contract after this season with only 5 mil in dead cap.

With Stingley, Awuzie, and Hilton we’d be set at CB. Then spend big in FA on the OL.

[jj22]

If not Brady then someone to keep an eye out on again would be Vance Joseph. Previous HC experience. Familiarity with Ownership. Never got his QB thanks to Elway's failures, and Arizona's defense has looked good. If not Bowles, I'd be more supportive of Joseph now then I was 3 years ago.

I'd like an offensive minded coach though. And those previously fired but ready for a 2nd shot are hard to find (not interested in Daniels).

If it's Brady and he's calling plays then it is a similar gamble given his inexperience as HC. He at least has calling plays under his belt now and ZT didn't.

[740Bengal]

Id like to see an offensive guy like Lane Kiffin, I know he failed with the raiders, but he was young.

[TJ528]

(09-21-2021, 08:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If Waynes doesn’t play extremely well once he finally gets on the field I would love to draft Stingley from LSU (although I hope we aren’t bad enough to get him). We have a potential out in Waynes contract after this season with only 5 mil in dead cap.

With Stingley, Awuzie, and Hilton we’d be set at CB. Then spend big in FA on the OL.

Nicomo, here's the issue you're going to run into next season then.  

So you let Wayne's walk, and draft time comes around.  You say draft Stingley, other people say draft the best OT on the board to replace Reiff.  

So once again you end up in the same situation you're in this year where you have people say draft Chase or Sewell. 

We know the front office isn't going to go out and give a shit load of money to a starting OL.  

With a new head coach potentially coming in next season, Reiff probably wants to jet to a winner so he has a chance as a SB before he retires. 

So again, its the choice CB or OL.  Which one do you suck at more? 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-22-2021, 10:07 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Nicomo, here's the issue you're going to run into next season then.  

So you let Wayne's walk, and draft time comes around.  You say draft Stingley, other people say draft the best OT on the board to replace Reiff.  

So once again you end up in the same situation you're in this year where you have people say draft Chase or Sewell. 

We know the front office isn't going to go out and give a shit load of money to a starting OL.  

With a new head coach potentially coming in next season, Reiff probably wants to jet to a winner so he has a chance as a SB before he retires. 

So again, its the choice CB or OL.  Which one do you suck at more? 

I’m tired of depending solely on the draft for the OL. They should bring in proven high end players than can protect Burrow now. Not rely on lottery tickets. Draft picks are a gamble at any position, but with all the Ogbuehi, Fisher, Price, etc type picks we’ve made in recent years you can’t tell me you wouldn’t feel better about addressing the OL more so in FA. Otoh we’ve typically done pretty well drafting CB’s high. They might not all be world beaters, but they also aren’t total busts like those guys I mentioned. But really I’m always fine with a BPA mentality when it comes to the draft. If that’s an olineman, then great, take him. But they’ve been spending like drunken sailors on the defense the last couple years (and it’s paying off), they need to throw some money at the other side of the ball now.

[TJ528]

(09-22-2021, 10:21 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m tired of depending solely on the draft for the OL. They should bring in proven high end players than can protect Burrow now. Not rely on lottery tickets. Draft picks are a gamble at any position, but with all the Ogbuehi, Fisher, Price, etc type picks we’ve made in recent years you can’t tell me you wouldn’t feel better about addressing the OL more so in FA. Otoh we’ve typically done pretty well drafting CB’s high. They might not all be world beaters, but they also aren’t total busts like those guys I mentioned. But really I’m always fine with a BPA mentality when it comes to the draft. If that’s an olineman, then great, take him. But they’ve been spending like drunken sailors on the defense the last couple years (and it’s paying off), they need to throw some money at the other side of the ball now.

Nicomo, you've heard it from this organization how many times, "we build our team from the draft. we rely on scouting and building and developing our team by the draft to control the overhead cost".  In other words, they don't believe in paying a premium just because you have 5-6 years in the league and you're good at what you do.  They believe they can draft someone who's just as good as that player.   And that's WHY were in the place we are today.  

I completely agree with you when it comes to addressing the OL needs.  As shitty as this front office has been at scouting OL, I'd prefer they sign OL via free agency because we KNOW what we're getting.    The problem that we're going to start facing is Burrow is due for a new contract within the next couple of years.  How much is that contract going to be worth?  How much is Higgins going to ask for?  How much will Chase ask for?  So you have all these shinny new toys on offense but you gotta pay em eventually.  You can't do that and pay for an OL, and a defense. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-21-2021, 08:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'd like an offensive minded coach though. 

Does it really matter, though? Marvin Lewis was a defensive minded coach but he had some pretty good offenses while he was here. That's why I made the "Coordinators are important" thread.

It's another reason I don't understand the Brady for HC thing. Do people want him to come be the HC and the OC? Cause it didn't work out for Taylor and while Brady is certainly a better OC, Hue Jackson was a better OC than Brady and when he went to a bad team and was the HC/OC, he had an even worse record than Zac Taylor.

At this point, if Zac wants to salvage any chance at remaining a HC, he absolutely MUST realize that he is not an effective OC and give up any attempts at being an OC ever in the NFL. Be the best HC he can be with whom he feels is the best OC for the players we have. It might be too late at this point, but continuing on as we have been is certainly going to lead to his dismissal and he'll be lucky to even be a QB coach in the NFL.

[XenoMorph]

(09-21-2021, 08:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: If not Brady then someone to keep an eye out on again would be Vance Joseph. Previous HC experience. Familiarity with Ownership. Never got his QB thanks to Elway's failures, and Arizona's defense has looked good. If not Bowles, I'd be more supportive of Joseph now then I was 3 years ago.

I'd like an offensive minded coach though. And those previously fired but ready for a 2nd shot are hard to find (not interested in Daniels).

If it's Brady and he's calling plays then it is a similar gamble given his inexperience as HC. He at least has calling  plays under his belt now and ZT didn't.

I want a coach that will hire Quality Coordinators and let them do their job.

[northernbengal]

(09-21-2021, 08:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If Waynes doesn’t play extremely well once he finally gets on the field I would love to draft Stingley from LSU (although I hope we aren’t bad enough to get him). We have a potential out in Waynes contract after this season with only 5 mil in dead cap.

With Stingley, Awuzie, and Hilton we’d be set at CB. Then spend big in FA on the OL.

I think this is right on the money. We would have a pretty elite defense and could go get some oline help? Who would be an FA Olinemen next season?

(09-21-2021, 08:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: If not Brady then someone to keep an eye out on again would be Vance Joseph. Previous HC experience. Familiarity with Ownership. Never got his QB thanks to Elway's failures, and Arizona's defense has looked good. If not Bowles, I'd be more supportive of Joseph now then I was 3 years ago.

I'd like an offensive minded coach though. And those previously fired but ready for a 2nd shot are hard to find (not interested in Daniels).

If it's Brady and he's calling plays then it is a similar gamble given his inexperience as HC. He at least has calling  plays under his belt now and ZT didn't.

Vance Joseph is not a bad pick either and if I remember correctly has worked with Zimmer in the past.(Could be a possible DC candidate depending on what happens in Minnesota.) Of course any coach is a gamble, not exclusively Brady, and while some people might see it as a pipe dream it makes sense. Brady has a lot more stops than Zac. His abilities as an OC aside he has worked with a large group of successful coaches including Sean Peyton and may be better developed as a HC.

(09-22-2021, 10:07 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Nicomo, here's the issue you're going to run into next season then.  

So you let Wayne's walk, and draft time comes around.  You say draft Stingley, other people say draft the best OT on the board to replace Reiff.  

So once again you end up in the same situation you're in this year where you have people say draft Chase or Sewell. 

We know the front office isn't going to go out and give a shit load of money to a starting OL.  

With a new head coach potentially coming in next season, Reiff probably wants to jet to a winner so he has a chance as a SB before he retires. 

So again, its the choice CB or OL.  Which one do you suck at more? 

Once again who is available next offseason at both in FA? I do not think either idea is bad. Also FA may be willing to hand out some big contracts depending on a coaching change and what Burrow has to say.

[jj22]

(09-22-2021, 10:51 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Does it really matter, though? Marvin Lewis was a defensive minded coach but he had some pretty good offenses while he was here. That's why I made the "Coordinators are important" thread.

It's another reason I don't understand the Brady for HC thing. Do people want him to come be the HC and the OC? Cause it didn't work out for Taylor and while Brady is certainly a better OC, Hue Jackson was a better OC than Brady and when he went to a bad team and was the HC/OC, he had an even worse record than Zac Taylor.

At this point, if Zac wants to salvage any chance at remaining a HC, he absolutely MUST realize that he is not an effective OC and give up any attempts at being an OC ever in the NFL. Be the best HC he can be with whom he feels is the best OC for the players we have. It might be too late at this point, but continuing on as we have been is certainly going to lead to his dismissal and he'll be lucky to even be a QB coach in the NFL.

I do kinda believe in the Defensive minded HC's lose great OC's every couple years if successful train of thought (right or wrong). That's the only reason I've begun to support Offensive minded HC's. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-22-2021, 12:20 PM)northernbengal Wrote: I think this is right on the money. We would have a pretty elite defense and could go get some oline help? Who would be an FA Olinemen next season?
Vance Joseph is not a bad pick either and if I remember correctly has worked with Zimmer in the past.(Could be a possible DC candidate depending on what happens in Minnesota.) Of course any coach is a gamble, not exclusively Brady, and while some people might see it as a pipe dream it makes sense. Brady has a lot more stops than Zac. His abilities as an OC aside he has worked with a large group of successful coaches including Sean Peyton and may be better developed as a HC.
Once again who is available next offseason at both in FA? I do not think either idea is bad. Also FA may be willing to hand out some big contracts depending on a coaching change and what Burrow has to say.

From PFN:

Top available 2022 free-agent offensive line players

1) Quenton Nelson, G, Indianapolis Colts*
2) Brandon Scherff, G, Washington Football Team
3) Orlando Brown Jr., T, Baltimore Ravens
4) Ryan Ramczyk, T, New Orleans Saints
5) Isaiah Wynn, T, New England Patriots*
6) Duane Brown, T, Seattle Seahawks
7) Terron Armstead, T, New Orleans Saints
8) Frank Ragnow, C, Detroit Lions*
9) Wyatt Teller, G, Cleveland Browns
10) Riley Reiff, T, Cincinnati Bengals

There is much to be excited about for free-agency options on the offensive line in 2022. While Quenton Nelson tops the list, he is eligible for a fifth-year option, which the Colts will almost certainly exercise if they do not get a long-term extension done.

That leaves Scherff as the top offensive lineman available after playing on his second franchise tag in 2021. The cost of a third franchise tag will be astronomical. Therefore, Washington should get a deal done, or Scherff will be a top-rated free agent for many teams next offseason.

Related | 2021 NFL Free Agents: Top available remaining at each position

The combination of Orlando Brown and Ryan Ramczyk is fascinating. Both play excellent football but have the knock of being right tackles currently. Additionally, both will be looking to convince teams next offseason that they can slide in seamlessly as a left tackle. Will one of them make a perfect fit in Miami as a right tackle protecting the blindside for Tua Tagovailoa?

Isaiah Wynn is the big unknown here. He has played well in bursts but has been injured too often. The Patriots may pick up his fifth-year option, but he will be an intriguing free agent next offseason if they don’t. A strong 2021 season might see him garner a plethora of suitors.

Duane Brown, Terron Armstead, Frank Ragnow, Wyatt Teller, and Riley Reiff round out what may be a deep group of offensive linemen next offseason.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Not sure why Orlando Brown is listed as a Raven.

[jj22]

(09-22-2021, 01:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: From PFN:

Top available 2022 free-agent offensive line players

1) Quenton Nelson, G, Indianapolis Colts*
2) Brandon Scherff, G, Washington Football Team
3) Orlando Brown Jr., T, Baltimore Ravens
4) Ryan Ramczyk, T, New Orleans Saints
5) Isaiah Wynn, T, New England Patriots*
6) Duane Brown, T, Seattle Seahawks
7) Terron Armstead, T, New Orleans Saints
8) Frank Ragnow, C, Detroit Lions*
9) Wyatt Teller, G, Cleveland Browns
10) Riley Reiff, T, Cincinnati Bengals

There is much to be excited about for free-agency options on the offensive line in 2022. While Quenton Nelson tops the list, he is eligible for a fifth-year option, which the Colts will almost certainly exercise if they do not get a long-term extension done.

That leaves Scherff as the top offensive lineman available after playing on his second franchise tag in 2021. The cost of a third franchise tag will be astronomical. Therefore, Washington should get a deal done, or Scherff will be a top-rated free agent for many teams next offseason.

Related | 2021 NFL Free Agents: Top available remaining at each position

The combination of Orlando Brown and Ryan Ramczyk is fascinating. Both play excellent football but have the knock of being right tackles currently. Additionally, both will be looking to convince teams next offseason that they can slide in seamlessly as a left tackle. Will one of them make a perfect fit in Miami as a right tackle protecting the blindside for Tua Tagovailoa?

Isaiah Wynn is the big unknown here. He has played well in bursts but has been injured too often. The Patriots may pick up his fifth-year option, but he will be an intriguing free agent next offseason if they don’t. A strong 2021 season might see him garner a plethora of suitors.

Duane Brown, Terron Armstead, Frank Ragnow, Wyatt Teller, and Riley Reiff round out what may be a deep group of offensive linemen next offseason.

Thanks. I hadn't seen the list. All the more important to get the rookies out there sometime this season to see what we have. The last thing we need is next offseason getting sold a bill of goods about the potential (unknown) of the players we have waiting in the wings.

[Bengal Dude]

(09-22-2021, 01:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: From PFN:

Top available 2022 free-agent offensive line players

1) Quenton Nelson, G, Indianapolis Colts*
2) Brandon Scherff, G, Washington Football Team
3) Orlando Brown Jr., T, Baltimore Ravens
4) Ryan Ramczyk, T, New Orleans Saints
5) Isaiah Wynn, T, New England Patriots*
6) Duane Brown, T, Seattle Seahawks
7) Terron Armstead, T, New Orleans Saints
8) Frank Ragnow, C, Detroit Lions*
9) Wyatt Teller, G, Cleveland Browns
10) Riley Reiff, T, Cincinnati Bengals

There is much to be excited about for free-agency options on the offensive line in 2022. While Quenton Nelson tops the list, he is eligible for a fifth-year option, which the Colts will almost certainly exercise if they do not get a long-term extension done.

That leaves Scherff as the top offensive lineman available after playing on his second franchise tag in 2021. The cost of a third franchise tag will be astronomical. Therefore, Washington should get a deal done, or Scherff will be a top-rated free agent for many teams next offseason.

Related | 2021 NFL Free Agents: Top available remaining at each position

The combination of Orlando Brown and Ryan Ramczyk is fascinating. Both play excellent football but have the knock of being right tackles currently. Additionally, both will be looking to convince teams next offseason that they can slide in seamlessly as a left tackle. Will one of them make a perfect fit in Miami as a right tackle protecting the blindside for Tua Tagovailoa?

Isaiah Wynn is the big unknown here. He has played well in bursts but has been injured too often. The Patriots may pick up his fifth-year option, but he will be an intriguing free agent next offseason if they don’t. A strong 2021 season might see him garner a plethora of suitors.

Duane Brown, Terron Armstead, Frank Ragnow, Wyatt Teller, and Riley Reiff round out what may be a deep group of offensive linemen next offseason.

(09-22-2021, 01:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not sure why Orlando Brown is listed as a Raven.

I'm guessing this is an older list. Ragnow and Ramczyk have already signed long term extensions.

[Murdock2420]

(09-23-2021, 01:07 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I'm guessing this is an older list. Ragnow and Ramczyk have already signed long term extensions.

Yeah, and Isaiah Wynn had his 5th year option picked up.

I went to https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/offensive-line// and the OL options are not so great after the top few. 

There is one name further down the list that if he hits FA, I'd love to see the Bengals go after and that is James Daniels. When the team missed out on Frank Ragnow I wanted Daniels over Price. He has G and C versatility and has been a solid player.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-23-2021, 01:22 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Yeah, and Isaiah Wynn had his 5th year option picked up.

I went to https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/offensive-line// and the OL options are not so great after the top few. 

There is one name further down the list that if he hits FA, I'd love to see the Bengals go after and that is James Daniels. When the team missed out on Frank Ragnow I wanted Daniels over Price. He has G and C versatility and has been a solid player.

Scherff is obviously the big prize. And with him already being tagged twice it’s likely he hits the market next year. Now, would the Bengals pay absolute top dollar for a OG? I think we all know the answer to that, but hey, I never thought they’d pay top dollar for a FA NT and they did, so who knows.

Just think how much good will that one signing would bring among the fan base. But…we’re talking about Mike Brown here.

[t3r3e3]

(09-19-2021, 09:36 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Being a hardass is not a prerequisite for being an all time great coach. Andy Reid doesn’t coach that way. And he’s as good as it gets.

More importantly, Andy Reid is an offensive wizard. A maestro. Basically, the anti-Zac Taylor. Zac has sucked as an OC at every stop, college and pro. Dude got his current job riding McVay’s coattails.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-21-2021, 08:36 PM)northernbengal Wrote: Someone said this earlier but I think it is the root issue with this question. Some people are worried that going for another young coach could put us right back where we are at. However, I think with a QB on a rookie contract you have to go big or go home. There are no former NFL HC with the chops to get us in the playoffs. If this defense keeps up I think it's fairly obvious that the red carpet should be rolled out for Joe Brady and Lou should be kept around. Honestly if we finish bottom 10 we could draft an elite corner or offensive lineman and be an immediate playoff contender.

Nice post. Yeah, if Lou finally has this Defense set he should stick around. 

Sure have liked what I have been seeing the first 2 games on D.

[jwalker3853]

I'll play along. People are going to complain regardless of if Zac is let go and/or who is brought in to replace them.

I vote that we bring in Joe Brady. He has chemistry with QB and at least Chase. They worked some magic the year they were together in LSU. I don't know if he has the connections or not but figure some of our existing coaches may be up for sticking around with a new coach.

Honestly though - if Zac is the one calling the plays, he really needs to get over it and give that responsibility to someone else. It's time to open the playbook up and see what this offense can do without being handcuffed. Its almost like the burrow injury is in Zacs head more then it is in Burrow's. From what I am seeing, it's really hard to blame one position group when everyone knows what is coming. I've seen alot of teeth gnashing re: the Oline, but honestly, we know it isn't a strength of ours, so telegraphing the plays and others (backs / tight ends) not making their blocks in protection doesn't help.

Its almost as if Zac knows he is on the hot seat this year and that if Burrow get's hurt, he is done for. However, the way he is calling the plays, he's going to be done for regardless. He just needs to put his big boy pants on, admit that it isn't his forte and let Callahan or someone else call them.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-23-2021, 12:57 PM)jwalker3853 Wrote: I'll play along.    People are going to complain regardless of if Zac is let go and/or who is brought in to replace them.    

I vote that we bring in Joe Brady.    He has chemistry with QB and at least Chase.    They worked some magic the year they were together in LSU.   I don't know if he has the connections or not but figure some of our existing coaches may be up for sticking around with a new coach.  

Honestly though - if Zac is the one calling the plays, he really needs to get over it and give that responsibility to someone else.    It's time to open the playbook up and see what this offense can do without being handcuffed.    Its almost like the burrow injury is in Zacs head more then it is in Burrow's.    From what I am seeing, it's really hard to blame one position group when everyone knows what is coming.   I've seen alot of teeth gnashing re: the Oline, but honestly, we know it isn't a strength of ours, so telegraphing the plays and others (backs / tight ends) not making their blocks in protection doesn't help.    

Its almost as if Zac knows he is on the hot seat this year and that if Burrow get's hurt, he is done for.    However, the way he is calling the plays, he's going to be done for regardless.   He just needs to put his big boy pants on, admit that it isn't his forte and let Callahan or someone else call them.

Spot on Jwalker, spot on.