Schizophrenia?

[fredtoast]

All I heard during the offseason was that Taylor was crazy for having Burrow throw so much.  EVERYONE knew it was stupid and he should have ran the ball more to protect Joe.

Now I am hearing that Taylor is crazy for not having Burrow throw the ball more.  In fact many people think that despite our problems with pass protection the answer to our problems is to call more deep passes that require more pass protection.

I understand that teams might tighten coverage on our receivers if all we do is throw short routes, but that is not the reason Burrow is getting hit.

Andy Dalton's 9 completions Sunday only gained 56 yards, but the first two drives he led were 9 plays for 75 yards (TD) and 12 plays for 61 yards.  The Bears converted there first 4 third downs and were only stopped on the second drive by a holding penalty. Even when defenders "sit on routes" you can still complete short passes and move the ball.

[kalibengal]

(09-24-2021, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: All I heard during the offseason was that Taylor was crazy for having Burrow throw so much.  EVERYONE knew it was stupid and he should have ran the ball more to protect Joe.

Now I am hearing that Taylor is crazy for not having Burrow throw the ball more.  In fact many people think that despite our problems with pass protection the answer to our problems is to call more deep passes that require more pass protection.

I understand that teams might tighten coverage on our receivers if all we do is throw short routes, but that is not the reason Burrow is getting hit.

Andy Dalton's 9 completions Sunday only gained 56 yards, but the first two drives he led were 9 plays for 75 yards (TD) and 12 plays for 61 yards.  The Bears converted there first 4 third downs and were only stopped on the second drive by a holding penalty. Even when defenders "sit on routes" you can still complete short passes and move the ball.

I know there is some data on this....but I do believe (just by obervation) Dalton does have one of quicker releases in NFL and that helps with his type of game....Burrow does not appear as quick to release it and there is more of wind up.  

[fredtoast]

(09-24-2021, 11:28 AM)kalibengal Wrote: I know there is some data on this....but I do believe (just by obervation) Dalton does have one of quicker releases in NFL and that helps with his type of game....Burrow does not appear as quick to release it and there is more of wind up.  

I hope Joe is just holding on to the ball longer because he is trying to make the big play every time.

From what I have seen I don't think it is because he is slower making his reads than a QB like Dalton.

That 2019 LSU offense was one of the most talented in college football history.  He has to learn how to play when he does not have superior talent all around him.

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-24-2021, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: All I heard during the offseason was that Taylor was crazy for having Burrow throw so much.  EVERYONE knew it was stupid and he should have ran the ball more to protect Joe.

Now I am hearing that Taylor is crazy for not having Burrow throw the ball more.  In fact many people think that despite our problems with pass protection the answer to our problems is to call more deep passes that require more pass protection.

I understand that teams might tighten coverage on our receivers if all we do is throw short routes, but that is not the reason Burrow is getting hit.

Andy Dalton's 9 completions Sunday only gained 56 yards, but the first two drives he led were 9 plays for 75 yards (TD) and 12 plays for 61 yards.  The Bears converted there first 4 third downs and were only stopped on the second drive by a holding penalty. Even when defenders "sit on routes" you can still complete short passes and move the ball.

I think people were saying throw deep because Chicago was so terrible defending it week 1 it just seemed so obvious to try and exploit. Honestly I don't hate Taylor's thinking going into Chicago if it was that the defense could keep it low scoring so lean on the run and quick passes and limit mistakes. Makes sense and without the turnovers maybe it leads to win. 

I'm not sure how many times they did it but the run 1st and 2nd down I don't hate but it does put extra pressure on the passing game I feel when now you have one play to pick up a first. I also don't like getting the 3rd and short and running all short routes. There was also some troubling signs from Burrow where I do feel he looked at the receiver the coverage was good and he should've gone to his next read but instead threw it anyway and his 2nd pick was one of those. Also if the quick short passes was Taylor's plan why not get creative with screens or more targets for Mixon and or TEs. I know Chase messed up the 1 screen but even that wasn't until the 2nd half. It just seemed a very bland game plan overall.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-24-2021, 11:47 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I think people were saying throw deep because Chicago was so terrible defending it week 1 it just seemed so obvious to try and exploit. Honestly I don't hate Taylor's thinking going into Chicago if it was that the defense could keep it low scoring so lean on the run and quick passes and limit mistakes. Makes sense and without the turnovers maybe it leads to win. 

I'm not sure how many times they did it but the run 1st and 2nd down I don't hate but it does put extra pressure on the passing game I feel when now you have one play to pick up a first. I also don't like getting the 3rd and short and running all short routes. There was also some troubling signs from Burrow where I do feel he looked at the receiver the coverage was good and he should've gone to his next read but instead threw it anyway and his 2nd pick was one of those. Also if the quick short passes was Taylor's plan why not get creative with screens or more targets for Mixon and or TEs. I know Chase messed up the 1 screen but even that wasn't until the 2nd half. It just seemed a very bland game plan overall.

I disagree, the Bears played 2 deep and said we can get presser with just the front 4 which they did, most or all sacks came from their Dline.. the Bengals had a nice game plan.. we were effective in 1st half with zero 3 and outs if you dont count last drive with 45 seconds left in half.. Burrow was like 11 out 15 in first half, having at  3  to 4 passes go for over 10 yards, two sacks and poor throw/reads on 3rd down and 4/5 did us in 1st half.. 2nd half, we just miss one 1st series with deep pass, then hit a big one to Higgins on 2nd series then he fumbles, then Burrow falls apart with 3 ints next three series..pretty much game was over after that

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-25-2021, 12:23 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I disagree, the Bears played 2 deep and said we can get presser with just the front 4 which they did, most or all sacks came from their Dline.. the Bengals had a nice game plan.. we were effective in 1st half with zero 3 and outs if you dont count last drive with 45 seconds left in half.. Burrow was like 11 out 15 in first half, having at  3  to 4 passes go for over 10 yards, two sacks and poor throw/reads on 3rd down and 4/5 did us in 1st half.. 2nd half, we just miss one 1st series with deep pass, then hit a big one to Higgins on 2nd series then he fumbles, then Burrow falls apart with 3 ints next three series..pretty much game was over after that

I'm curious what kind of coverage they were running against the Rams because if it was the same they had some serious communication issues going on so it might not have mattered if they were 2 deep. Your right we did move the ball in the 1st half and I don't hate the approach but I just think a little more creativity makes the difference.

[J24]

John Madden used to say throw deep on first down because the defense is prepared to stop the run. Also it's hard to convert downs if it's constantly third and longs like it was against the Bears. So more balance on first and second would help.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(09-25-2021, 01:18 AM)J24 Wrote: Also it's hard to convert downs if it's constantly third and longs like it was against the Bears. So more balance on first and second would help.

If this problem was given to me to solve I would have the offense “go CFL” in practice and only allow three downs — not four — for about a week. It’s a lot more pressure filled when you can’t fool around on first down; every yard counts when you’re trying to avoid punting on third down.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-24-2021, 11:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: All I heard during the offseason was that Taylor was crazy for having Burrow throw so much.  EVERYONE knew it was stupid and he should have ran the ball more to protect Joe.

Now I am hearing that Taylor is crazy for not having Burrow throw the ball more.  In fact many people think that despite our problems with pass protection the answer to our problems is to call more deep passes that require more pass protection.

I understand that teams might tighten coverage on our receivers if all we do is throw short routes, but that is not the reason Burrow is getting hit.

Andy Dalton's 9 completions Sunday only gained 56 yards, but the first two drives he led were 9 plays for 75 yards (TD) and 12 plays for 61 yards.  The Bears converted there first 4 third downs and were only stopped on the second drive by a holding penalty. Even when defenders "sit on routes" you can still complete short passes and move the ball.

It isn't the ratio of run/pass that I have a problem with.  It is the design and the scheme of what is being run by the offense.  No double moves, no misdirection, no crossing routes, and in the run game, they aren't beating a defense that is daring them to run the ball.  It is very disappointing.  

The defense has done its part and then some.  The offense looks downright pathetic against an average at best team on the road.  That just isn't acceptable.  

Dalton and the Bears did nothing on this defense without the help of turnovers and penalties.  Bad example.  

This offense has a lot of talent.  It is simply not being used correctly.  

[Bengalstripes9]

I like that they are running the ball more this season. But we need a more balanced and unpredictable approach. We need to attack all levels of the defense. And we need to attack the defense’s weaknesses. Last week we didn’t attack the defense’s weaknesses well at all. We only threw a few deep balls and ran a very stale game plan.

[CJD]

The majority of the criticism that I've seen hasn't been the volume of passing attempts being the problem, but rather the quality of the passing attempts.

He threw it 30 times against Chicago, after all. I think that's a good number to hover around on a weekly basis. But the number of check downs, short passing route combinations and overall inept play designs made many of Joe's passes feel like gussied up (and ineffective) running plays.

We don't want 45 passes per game. We want 10 to 15 well designed intermediate to deep passing plays per game.

I think play sequencing is also a problem. When you run on first and second down, your third down pass almost has to be "to the sticks" because a failure to get the first down is essentially a turnover. That allows the defense to sit on short routes on third down because it is very risky to throw it deep on your last opportunity to gain a first down.

I'd really like to see 1st down run, 2nd down deep shot, 3rd down pass for the first down or 1st down deep shot, 2nd down run, 3rd down pass for the first down more often. That means if your deep shot is unsuccessful, you still have 3rd down for conversion. 

Run run pass punt (or, in some cases run, short pass, pass, punt) is what we lived through so much in the Bob Bratkowski days and I don't like that it reared its ugly head again last week in a few series.

[ezekiel23]

You have a Quarterback that was taken #1 overall in the draft.WR taken #5 overall in the draft.The game plan ZT implemented against the Chicago Bears isn’t the strength of this team.Burow should be throwing the ball 40 times a game minimum.