We can't keep doing this all year...

[Shake n Blake]

In a recent thread, Essex Johnson compared this team to the 2012 team. I compared it to the 2009 team. Both for similar reasons, which included our focus on running the football.

Well there's one big difference I noticed.

In 2009, our backup RBs (Bernard Scott, Larry Johnson and Brian Leonard) combined for 147 carries (9.2 per game). This kept us focused on running, but also kept us from killing CedBen. These RBs were also successful, rushing for 609 yards on 4.1 ypc, which was right behind CedBen's 4.2.

In 2012, we weren't quite as balanced, but still gave our backups (Peerman, Scott and Leonard) 77 carries, or 4.8 per game. This group was also very successful, rushing for 399 yards on 5.4 a pop.

This year?

We've had a grand total of 6 carries (all Perine) to backup RBs, or 2 per game. Mixon has 67 carries, which puts him on pace for 380 carries for a full season. This just isn't sustainable.

So the way I see it, things are going to play out one of three ways:

1) We maintain this pace and Mixon gets worn down and/or injured during this 17 game schedule.

2) We gradually start passing more...which I guess makes sense, but I kinda like the run focus we have right now.

Or

3) We start rotating our backs a little more.

Obviously, I'm a fan of option #3. It seems like this team has often been reluctant to use our backup RBs, instead looking at one guy as the "bellcow" and not really using the others.

I get that Mixon is paid the big bucks. You give him the lion's share of carries...but you also want to keep him healthy and fresh, while maintaining the balanced offense we've seen thus far, (which is working quite well, btw).

To do this, we need to see the other guys rotate in way more.

Thoughts?

[XenoMorph]

i dont think the 2 backups we have now have earned that trust to be out there more yet. Although at one point one of the coaches said mixon should play every snap

But your right cant overuse mixon and keep him fresh all season especially with an extra game.

3 is the best move if we had another back you could trust like a gio.......

[WeezyBengal]

I think (and hope) the plan is to open up the passing more once Joe gets settled in. How many games it will take, that I do not know.

I think last week was a big mile stone game for him, so maybe look for them to open it up a bit more this week and more and more going forward.

I think its pretty huge that we get out to an early lead and squash them on Thursday, so look for Joe to be throwing early (hopefully).

The fact is, is that you just can't consistently win games against good teams in the NFL passing 20 times a game. We will start to play teams with high powered offenses and we will need to score to keep up.

[KillerGoose]

(09-29-2021, 05:25 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think (and hope) the plan is to open up the passing more once Joe gets settled in. How many games it will take, that I do not know.

I think last week was a big mile stone game for him, so maybe look for them to open it up a bit more this week and more and more going forward.

I think its pretty huge that we get out to an early lead and squash them on Thursday, so look for Joe to be throwing early (hopefully).

The fact is, is that you just can't consistently win games against good teams in the NFL passing 20 times a game. We will start to play teams with high powered offenses and we will need to score to keep up.

I agree. The Bengals should be looking to pass more as Joe continues to acclimate to his post-injury abilities. This team is simply set up to do so. At the end of the day, a pass/run split of roughly 55/45 would be great and you can convert some of those Mixon runs into a combination of Mixon/Evans catches. Screens, HB outs etc.

This team has a strong cast of passing weapons and they should be using them more as the season progresses.

[treee]

Was nice to see Evans get some work last week. Hopefully his snap % keeps going up and we keep him involved in the pass game.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-29-2021, 05:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In a recent thread, Essex Johnson compared this team to the 2012 team. I compared it to the 2009 team. Both for similar reasons, which included our focus on running the football.

Well there's one big difference I noticed.

In 2009, our backup RBs (Bernard Scott, Larry Johnson and Brian Leonard) combined for 147 carries (9.2 per game). This kept us focused on running, but also kept us from killing CedBen. These RBs were also successful, rushing for 609 yards on 4.1 ypc, which was right behind CedBen's 4.2.

In 2012, we weren't quite as balanced, but still gave our backups (Peerman, Scott and Leonard) 77 carries, or 4.8 per game. This group was also very successful, rushing for 399 yards on 5.4 a pop.

This year?

We've had a grand total of 6 carries (all Perine) to backup RBs, or 2 per game. Mixon has 67 carries, which puts him on pace for 380 carries for a full season. This just isn't sustainable.

So the way I see it, things are going to play out one of three ways:

1) We maintain this pace and Mixon gets worn down and/or injured during this 17 game schedule.

2) We gradually start passing more...which I guess makes sense, but I kinda like the run focus we have right now.

Or

3) We start rotating our backs a little more.

Obviously, I'm a fan of option #3. It seems like this team has often been reluctant to use our backup RBs, instead looking at one guy as the "bellcow" and not really using the others.

I get that Mixon is paid the big bucks. You give him the lion's share of carries...but you also want to keep him healthy and fresh, while maintaining the balanced offense we've seen thus far, (which is working quite well, btw).

To do this, we need to see the other guys rotate in way more.

Thoughts?

I have said this in passing a few times in other threads....You are dead on.  I think to keep Mixon healthy and fresh down the stretch, there needs to be a better rotation of the backup RBs.  Evans has shown to be very promising.  A little bummed we let Patrick go, as Perine looks a little lethargic compared to the end of last year.  Amazing how a contract can do that.

As far as the reasoning behind it, I think you are right that they are somewhat trying to protect Burrow (why was I tempted to add an "S"?  I'm such a dick) and ease him in to things.  I think with 10 days to prepare for Green Bay, and they should want to get up on the Jags and unleash the pass rush on Lawrence.  Don't play this one so conservative early and allow them to stay in the game.  

One possible development:  without Higgins, I can't help but think they try to get some of that Burrow/Uzomah magic going this year.  TEs have been non-existent in the passing game with few exceptions.  

[Shake n Blake]

(09-29-2021, 05:21 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: i dont think the 2 backups we have now have earned that trust to be out there more yet. Although at one point one of the coaches said mixon should play every snap

But your right cant overuse mixon and keep him fresh all season especially with an extra game.

3 is the best move if we had another back you could trust like a gio.......

We signed Larry Johnson off the street in 2009 and he got carries right away.

If these guys have been around this long and still haven't earned enough trust to get 5-6 carries, then we should look elsewhere. Now. This is kinda important, IMO.

Tbh, I think the Bengals operating this way for so long has convinced a lot of people that backup RBs should be afterthoughts. But if you look around the league, most teams feed their backups a little more than we typically do.

(09-29-2021, 05:25 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think (and hope) the plan is to open up the passing more once Joe gets settled in. How many games it will take, that I do not know.

I think last week was a big mile stone game for him, so maybe look for them to open it up a bit more this week and more and more going forward.

I think its pretty huge that we get out to an early lead and squash them on Thursday, so look for Joe to be throwing early (hopefully).

The fact is, is that you just can't consistently win games against good teams in the NFL passing 20 times a game. We will start to play teams with high powered offenses and we will need to score to keep up.

We're at 25 attempts/game, which is about what Baltimore averaged last year
. That said, I agree we'll need to open it up *some*. I personally hope we don't swing too far in the opposite direction.

We don't need to be throwing 40 times like last year. That's a proven formula for losing, especially in this division.

Right now, we're around a 55/45 split favoring passing. Even if we move to 60/40 or a pinch higher, I think we still need more out of our backups, or Mixon is going to end up hurt.

I think he's proven how important he (and just running in general) is to winning.

[sandwedge]

The problem I see with a rotation is, backs need to get a rhythm. They cant if you are only in every other series. I don't want to burn out Mixon either. There might be a few games where we become pass happy.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-29-2021, 05:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: That said, I agree we'll need to open it up *some*. I personally hope we don't swing too far in the opposite direction.

We don't need to be throwing 40 times like last year. That's a proven formula for losing, especially in this division.

Right now, we're around a 55/45 split favoring passing. Even if we move to 60/40 or a pinch higher, I think we still need more out of our backups, or Mixon is going to end up hurt.

I think he's proven how important he (and just running in general) is to winning.

Agreed....and is it just me, or are the teams with winning records this year not slinging the pill very much? I haven't watched a whole lot, but watching highlights and checking boxscores, I seem to notice attempts in the twenties and even teens.

[*bengalfan74*]

I want to stay balanced, close to it anyways. I'm not that big on Perine, I'd like to see Evans start getting a larger share. Something like:

Mixon - 65%

Evans - 25%

Perine - 10%

[Gdale_Bengal]

I don’t think Burrow is ready to sling the ball a bunch and I feel like these first four games before the GB game were to get burrow back into nfl form and hopefully amass some wins in the process.


He’s had 4 ints, 7 tds and is starting to move around the pocket more and last week he audibled to a play where he ran for a first. He’s getting more comfortable and confident and they have a chance at a 3-1 record Thursday night. Can’t ask for more than that with the past 2 seasons being what they are.

[*Go Cards*]

Definitely a recipe for killing a RB that needs some tweaking.

[*jason*]

(09-29-2021, 05:42 PM)treee Wrote: Was nice to see Evans get some work last week. Hopefully his snap % keeps going up and we keep him involved in the pass game.

Small sample size, but he seems to make things happen when he touches the ball.

[GreenCornBengal]

I like what they’re doing with Chris Evans in the passing game and I’m interested to see how the evolution of his role starts to touch the running game. He’s going to be a great additional threat IMO.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-29-2021, 06:43 PM)Wyche Wrote: Agreed....and is it just me, or are the teams with winning records this year not slinging the pill very much? I haven't watched a whole lot, but watching highlights and checking boxscores, I seem to notice attempts in the twenties and even teens.

Derek Carr has the most passing yards in the league and is 3-0.
Kyler Murray has the 3rd-most passing yards in the league and is 3-0.
Matt Stafford has the 5th-most passing yards in the league and is 3-0.

Plenty of teams are passing it and winning.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-29-2021, 05:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In a recent thread, Essex Johnson compared this team to the 2012 team. I compared it to the 2009 team. Both for similar reasons, which included our focus on running the football.

Well there's one big difference I noticed.

In 2009, our backup RBs (Bernard Scott, Larry Johnson and Brian Leonard) combined for 147 carries (9.2 per game). This kept us focused on running, but also kept us from killing CedBen. These RBs were also successful, rushing for 609 yards on 4.1 ypc, which was right behind CedBen's 4.2.

In 2012, we weren't quite as balanced, but still gave our backups (Peerman, Scott and Leonard) 77 carries, or 4.8 per game. This group was also very successful, rushing for 399 yards on 5.4 a pop.

This year?

We've had a grand total of 6 carries (all Perine) to backup RBs, or 2 per game. Mixon has 67 carries, which puts him on pace for 380 carries for a full season. This just isn't sustainable.

So the way I see it, things are going to play out one of three ways:

1) We maintain this pace and Mixon gets worn down and/or injured during this 17 game schedule.

2) We gradually start passing more...which I guess makes sense, but I kinda like the run focus we have right now.

Or

3) We start rotating our backs a little more.

Obviously, I'm a fan of option #3. It seems like this team has often been reluctant to use our backup RBs, instead looking at one guy as the "bellcow" and not really using the others.

I get that Mixon is paid the big bucks. You give him the lion's share of carries...but you also want to keep him healthy and fresh, while maintaining the balanced offense we've seen thus far, (which is working quite well, btw).

To do this, we need to see the other guys rotate in way more.

Thoughts?

A very good critique and I agree with you Shake, cannot keep putting it all on Mixon. I think we rotate the Backs more as the 
year goes on especially Chris Evans as he is the rookie and should earn many more snaps. Perine has had a bad season so far
especially in pass protection so I think he has had a bit of a punishment cause of this. Once he starts playing better in this 
extremely important aspect we should see more of him.

[Destro]

NFL has a way of putting RBs through the woodchipper after a few hard years.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-29-2021, 05:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We signed Larry Johnson off the street in 2009 and he got carries right away.

If these guys have been around this long and still haven't earned enough trust to get 5-6 carries, then we should look elsewhere. Now. This is kinda important, IMO.

Tbh, I think the Bengals operating this way for so long has convinced a lot of people that backup RBs should be afterthoughts. But if you look around the league, most teams feed their backups a little more than we typically do.


We're at 25 attempts/game, which is about what Baltimore averaged last year
. That said, I agree we'll need to open it up *some*. I personally hope we don't swing too far in the opposite direction.

We don't need to be throwing 40 times like last year. That's a proven formula for losing, especially in this division.

Right now, we're around a 55/45 split favoring passing. Even if we move to 60/40 or a pinch higher, I think we still need more out of our backups, or Mixon is going to end up hurt.

I think he's proven how important he (and just running in general) is to winning.

Baltimore was able to pass so little because their run game was so elite (as was the defense).
And the reason their run game was so elite was because they had an elite running QB.

BAL was last in passing attempts and passing yards last season, but still ended up 7th in Points For and 19th in Total Yards.
They averaged nearly 35 rushing attempts per game, but it was a definite committee with the following distribution:
- Jackson = 159 carries
- Edwards = 144 carries
- Dobbins = 134 carries
- Ingram = 72 carries

If the Bengals want to avoid running Mixon into the ground, they need to get Perine and Evans more touches, but also probably get a 4th RB on the roster since we don't want Burrow running a lot. Get rid of Morgan, Irwin, or even Thomas in favor of a 4th RB.
If the team didn't want to give Trayveon Williams a shot (personally I'd like to see him), there are plenty of vet RBs who could be brought in for cheap to help lighten the load on Mixon.
EDIT - Maybe Todd Gurley, who Taylor should be very familiar with? We know Gurley can also catch passes, but we also know between time at UGA and with the Rams, he has a lot of mileage. With that said, he's still only 27 years old and could contribute in a backup/shared role.

[KillerGoose]

(09-29-2021, 08:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Derek Carr has the most passing yards in the league and is 3-0.
Kyler Murray has the 3rd-most passing yards in the league and is 3-0.
Matt Stafford has the 5th-most passing yards in the league and is 3-0.

Plenty of teams are passing it and winning.

Yeah. Having a strong passing game has a stronger relationship to victories than a strong rushing game does. It is a passing league, through and through.

[*Synric*]

(09-29-2021, 08:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Derek Carr has the most passing yards in the league and is 3-0.
Kyler Murray has the 3rd-most passing yards in the league and is 3-0.
Matt Stafford has the 5th-most passing yards in the league and is 3-0.

Plenty of teams are passing it and winning.

Misleading. 

Out of those 3 only the Raiders are running it less than 40% of the time (38% run, 64% passing). The Cardinals are are 44% run, 56% passing. The Rams are nearly the same with 43.9% run, 56.1 passing. These two teams are alot more balanced in their offense.

Of the top 5 teams with the highest pass percentage only the Bucs have a winning record. Highest percentage passing teams are 1. Bucs 2. Steelers 3. Jaguars. 4. Jets 5. Falcons.