The Ja'Marr Chase Thread

[Boomer Anderson]

(10-08-2021, 10:36 AM)Whatever Wrote: Averaged out over the end of the season, Sewell's pass pro numbers would look like...

9 sacks, 17 QB Hits, 47 Total Pressures

Bobby Hart in 2020...

4 Sacks, 8 QB Hits, 32 Total Pressures

I still think Sewell will develop into a good player, but he was nowhere near pro ready coming out of college.  A lot of people got trapped in that "generational talent" hype that surrounded him.  

The killer is comparing Chase to the X WR's that were discussed in round 2.

Chase 17 catches on 25 Targets, 297 yards, 4 TD's

Dyami Brown 5 catches on 14 Targets, 51 yards, 0 TD's

Terrace Marshall. 11 catches on 17 targets, 93 yards, 0 TD

Rashod Bateman-Hasn't played

This.

Plus I liked Slayter from Northwestern better. I think Sewell will be a great player but Uno was much needed with AJ Green’s injury history.

[Housh]

As a fanbase can we just agree that it looked bad in the preseason and ANY unbiased fan wouldve been worried but Chase has ended those worries? Lets not demonize the ppl that overreacted a bit because Chase was trash, because it was BAD.

[Shake n Blake]

I don't really associate myself with this thread. I think any rational person was a little worried about the drops, but I do think preseason was a bit too early to be talking about regretting the pick. No offense to OP at all.

Would be nice if we could let it die and not revive old threads for gloating purposes though. Lord knows I could do that with just about anyone here. We've all been wrong many times, regardless of how some people feel about themselves.

[BengalChris]

I can't believe this is still a thread.

[Big_Ern]

I will keep this thread alive for years.

[Sled21]

(10-08-2021, 11:50 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't really associate myself with this thread. I think any rational person was a little worried about the drops, but I do think preseason was a bit too early to be talking about regretting the pick. No offense to OP at all.

Would be nice if we could let it die and not revive old threads for gloating purposes though. Lord knows I could do that with just about anyone here. We've all been wrong many times, regardless of how some people feel about themselves.

I consider myself very rational, and was not worried about the drops in the least. I saw it for what it was, a brand new rookie that dropped a couple of passes and got all kinds of attention for it, then it got in his head. I was 99% sure he would get it worked out. It's not like he forgot how to play football. All he needed was that first catch on the big stage.

[GreenCornBengal]

(10-08-2021, 11:43 PM)Housh Wrote: As a fanbase can we just agree that it looked bad in the preseason and ANY unbiased fan wouldve been worried but Chase has ended those worries? Lets not demonize the ppl that overreacted a bit because Chase was trash, because it was BAD.

No player “was trash” based on some practices and preseason games… that’s the whole issue with the drop scare. Overreaction to the highest degree.

[Mgbrown66]

When you watched Sewell's highlight reels on draft night, everything was him running around making incredible blocks downfield. Never any tape of him doing pass pro drops and stoning a defensive end.

I thought of all the talk about him being the next Munoz was like comparing Corky Miller to Johnny Bench.

[Benton]

(10-08-2021, 11:52 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I can't believe this is still a thread.

It's not too implausible. 

For the next season or two, if the Bengals do well: "suck it team Sewell, y'all were dumb, receivers really do fix lines. Hahahahahahahaha!"

And, likewise, if the Bengals do poorly: "God, this is the craptastic turn you take when you need an OL, but take a receiver. Hope you're enjoying another 117 years of bungling."

Hopefully, this thread gives both those sides a place to go slap each other instead of clogging up the rest of jn.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Just change the title of the thread and we're golden. It's perfectly great to have a Ja'Marr Chase thread. He deserves his own thread. Let's just stop allowing this thread title to breathe.

"The Ja'Marr Chase Thread"

[Bengalholic]

(10-09-2021, 11:59 AM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: Just change the title of the thread and we're golden. It's perfectly great to have a Ja'Marr Chase thread. He deserves his own thread. Let's just stop allowing this thread title to breathe.

"The Ja'Marr Chase Thread"

Good idea and done.

Agree with Benton too...I see no problem letting the thread stay open as long as it keeps JN from being clogged with similar threads on the same subjects.

[Murdock2420]

(10-08-2021, 10:36 AM)Whatever Wrote: The killer is comparing Chase to the X WR's that were discussed in round 2.

Chase 17 catches on 25 Targets, 297 yards, 4 TD's

Dyami Brown 5 catches on 14 Targets, 51 yards, 0 TD's

Terrace Marshall. 11 catches on 17 targets, 93 yards, 0 TD

Rashod Bateman-Hasn't played

This debate should have died long ago yet... for the next five years it will be sure to rage on... since, it is the internet and people act like fools when they are anonymous.

But in this one instant I have to take a moment and point out a little reality here.

You are comparing those numbers without looking at the other two giant factors in the comparisons.


First - Joe Burrow vs Sam Darnold vs Taylor Heinicke. It's pretty safe to assume that those other guys would be better if they had better QB play. 

Kyle Pitts has 15 catches on 26 targets, 189 yards, 0 TD's. So clearly the Falcons made a mistake right? Or maybe their QB is on the backside of his career and their offense is trash.

The other big fun fact, is usage. In Carolina, there is D.J. Moore, Robby Anderson and some guy named McCaffrey that get the most targets. In Washington, it's the Terry McLaurin show followed by a ton of dump off passes to TE's and RBs because their offense is HORRIBLE. Meanwhile in Cincinnati Chase is the focal point from Burrow. He is second in targets to Boyd by 5 and that number is inflated by Boyd's 9 targets against Jacksonville. Literally comparing apples to zucchini with this comparison.


Four weeks into a season and people want to compare draft results.... 

Which is funny, since the people pounding their e-pen's over the chase pick the hardest are the same cats that were screaming at one poster over and over that is was too soon to judge the Herbert v Burrow debate. Pick a lane.

[wanga]

I’m glad he’s ours and I’m glad he’s doing well. The best is yet to come as well.
Pick some top end oline talent next year and FA and we’ll be even better off.

[Whatever]

(10-09-2021, 09:11 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: This debate should have died long ago yet... for the next five years it will be sure to rage on... since, it is the internet and people act like fools when they are anonymous.

But in this one instant I have to take a moment and point out a little reality here.

You are comparing those numbers without looking at the other two giant factors in the comparisons.


First - Joe Burrow vs Sam Darnold vs Taylor Heinicke. It's pretty safe to assume that those other guys would be better if they had better QB play. 

Kyle Pitts has 15 catches on 26 targets, 189 yards, 0 TD's. So clearly the Falcons made a mistake right? Or maybe their QB is on the backside of his career and their offense is trash.

The other big fun fact, is usage. In Carolina, there is D.J. Moore, Robby Anderson and some guy named McCaffrey that get the most targets. In Washington, it's the Terry McLaurin show followed by a ton of dump off passes to TE's and RBs because their offense is HORRIBLE.


Four weeks into a season and people want to compare draft results.... 

Which is funny, since the people pounding their e-pen's over the chase pick the hardest are the same cats that were screaming at one poster over and over that is was too soon to judge the Herbert v Burrow debate. Pick a lane.

Pitts is a TE.  TE's usually take a year to get up to full speed in the NFL.  Look at TJ Hockenson as an example.   

Joe Burrow currently has a 113.8 QBR.  Chase is providing a ridiculous 147.8 QBR when targeted, 34 points higher than Joe's average rating.

Taylor Heinicke currently has a 105.9 QBR.  Dyami Brown's QBR when targeted?  47.0.  That's not even close to half Heinicke's QBR.  Brown is dragging his QB's rating down, big time.  

Darnold sits at a 95.4 QBR.  Marshall is a 78.8 QBR when targeted.  So, that's about an 18 point drop off when targeted.

You're seriously going to try to argue usage when most of the off-season people were saying we didn't need a 1st round WR because Higgins and/or Boyd were #1 WR's?  Chase has gotten more targets because the results dictate he get more targets.  Marshall and Brown are still significant parts of their teams' offenses, but they aren't producing enough to warrant more targets.  In fact, Brown should be seeing a lot less than he's getting.  

It's certainly fair to compare draft results during the season when a group uses scare tactics and claims the starting QB won't last the season if we don't draft the OT they want, especially since said OT would be our worst pass blocker by a wide margin.  

To frame for you just how bad Sewell has been, our current starting OL has allowed a total of 17 Total Pressures(Sacks+Hits+Hurries) between them(3 for Jonah, 2 for Spain, 5 for Trey, 1 for Carman, 6 for Reiff).

Sewell has allowed 17 Total Pressures by himself.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-09-2021, 09:11 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: This debate should have died long ago yet... for the next five years it will be sure to rage on... since, it is the internet and people act like fools when they are anonymous.

But in this one instant I have to take a moment and point out a little reality here.

You are comparing those numbers without looking at the other two giant factors in the comparisons.


First - Joe Burrow vs Sam Darnold vs Taylor Heinicke. It's pretty safe to assume that those other guys would be better if they had better QB play. 

Kyle Pitts has 15 catches on 26 targets, 189 yards, 0 TD's. So clearly the Falcons made a mistake right? Or maybe their QB is on the backside of his career and their offense is trash.

The other big fun fact, is usage. In Carolina, there is D.J. Moore, Robby Anderson and some guy named McCaffrey that get the most targets. In Washington, it's the Terry McLaurin show followed by a ton of dump off passes to TE's and RBs because their offense is HORRIBLE. Meanwhile in Cincinnati Chase is the focal point from Burrow. He is second in targets to Boyd by 5 and that number is inflated by Boyd's 9 targets against Jacksonville. Literally comparing apples to zucchini with this comparison.


Four weeks into a season and people want to compare draft results.... 

Which is funny, since the people pounding their e-pen's over the chase pick the hardest are the same cats that were screaming at one poster over and over that is was too soon to judge the Herbert v Burrow debate. Pick a lane.

McCaffrey didn’t even play last week, and only played 30% of the offensive snaps the week before. The fact is Chase has just been on another level compared to all the other WR’s from his draft so far.

Also, people “scream” at that poster because the Herbert infatuation isn’t even genuine. It’s more about him just not being Joe Burrow. Said poster has a super weird hate-on for Burrow. Going back to before we even officially drafted him. I can link a certain thread as proof. As pathetic as it sounds, it seems to have mostly stemmed from that poster having a beef with certain other poster’s who were banging the drum for Burrow the earliest and the loudest. I’m sure most know who the unnamed parties are here…

It’s hard to believe anyone would let some petty little silliness like that stop them from enjoying having a young stud franchise QB, but that’s their loss. It’s also just plain obnoxious since you know…Justin Herbert is a LA Charger, and not a Cincinnati Bengal.

[Benton]

(10-09-2021, 11:54 PM)Whatever Wrote: Pitts is a TE.  TE's usually take a year to get up to full speed in the NFL.  Look at TJ Hockenson as an example.   

...

To frame for you just how bad Sewell has been, our current starting OL has allowed a total of 17 Total Pressures(Sacks+Hits+Hurries) between them(3 for Jonah, 2 for Spain, 5 for Trey, 1 for Carman, 6 for Reiff).

Sewell has allowed 17 Total Pressures by himself.

Isn't that a bit of a double standard?

People shouldn't judge Pitts because TE's take a season to get going... but do judge Sewell, even though tackles typically take 3-4 years to get going?

I remember an article years ago that had something to do with approximate value at different positions. OL didn't really hit their stride till something like year seven or eight. Which on one hand has me really hopeful with Jonah (maybe considering the injury history, he takes a smaller contract when it's time, but can play the majority of it). On the other hand, it means we need to invest a lot more in tackles, either by competing in FA or doing better at growing our own.

[Murdock2420]

(10-10-2021, 12:22 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: McCaffrey didn’t even play last week, and only played 30% of the offensive snaps the week before. The fact is Chase has just been on another level compared to all the other WR’s from his draft so far.

Also, people “scream” at that poster because the Herbert infatuation isn’t even genuine. It’s more about him just not being Joe Burrow. Said poster has a super weird hate-on for Burrow. Going back to before we even officially drafted him. I can link a certain thread as proof. As pathetic as it sounds, it seems to have mostly stemmed from that poster having a beef with certain other poster’s who were banging the drum for Burrow the earliest and the loudest. I’m sure most know who the unnamed parties are here…

It’s hard to believe anyone would let some petty little silliness like that stop them from enjoying having a young stud franchise QB, but that’s their loss. It’s also just plain obnoxious since you know…Justin Herbert is a LA Charger, and not a Cincinnati Bengal.

Yup he missed one game and went down in the other, but the 1st two weeks, it was the CMC show as usual. That still counts.

And the game that CMC sat out fully, the other two WR's Moore and Anderson were targeted a combined 23 times. Again, if you are the 3rd or 4th option on a team with a lesser QB (unless you want to argue that Darnold is comparable to Burrow) it makes a huge huge difference.

You say he is on another level, and I'd say sure he has been but he is also on another level for talent throwing him the ball, and target share of throws. There isn't another WR drafted in the first 3 rounds getting this opportunity outside of maybe DeVonta Smith in Philly and even then that offense is struggling and Hurts is unpredicable. The guy gets to play with a QB he was familar with, is the 2nd most targeted guy on the team and has two other high level NFL proven WRs, oh and he has a good RB. Who else drafted is getting those reps, with that type of talent support? 

You can defend the guy as having a good start and things going well here in Cincinnati and they certainly are. However, to imply that no one else would produce with the same opportunity and talent around him is just flat out wrong. And we will never know, because can't substitute players. 


Onto the other part.

I agree his infatuation with Herbert was simply to be a troll. No clue why, but he stuck to it. 

However, him being a troll lead to people saying it was "too soon" to be judging things and "wait and see where they end up" and those same people are now crowning a draft pick after 4 weeks? 

That's why I commented here becuase people need to pick a lane. The early returns have been good for sure but it can't be "too soon" to judge some players but completely fine to judge others. I've tried to avoid the debate since the season started, but the "look at other WR stats" post was just so misleading and wrong I had to call it out. 

[Murdock2420]

(10-10-2021, 12:51 AM)Benton Wrote: Isn't that a bit of a double standard?

People shouldn't judge Pitts because TE's take a season to get going... but do judge Sewell, even though tackles typically take 3-4 years to get going?

I remember an article years ago that had something to do with approximate value at different positions. OL didn't really hit their stride till something like year seven or eight. Which on one hand has me really hopeful with Jonah (maybe considering the injury history, he takes a smaller contract when it's time, but can play the majority of it). On the other hand, it means we need to invest a lot more in tackles, either by competing in FA or doing better at growing our own.

It 100% is, and that was the only reason I even came back and posted in here again. When it benefits a player that posters like then we use PFF and we rate right now. When it doesn't benefit, PFF is wrong and we need years to rate a guy.

[SladeX]

I can't believe people are crowning anyone from this draft an unqualified success or failure at this point. I was team sewell, or more precisely, team we needed one more OL piece, G or C, but I certainly didn't freak out during Chase's difficult preseason....
Looks like our rookie guard is doing great, I hope C holds up throughout the season. I say that to say this, if the team's offseason strategy works out and we have a successful season and solid foundation for the future, GREAT!!! I'm not going to be General Custer over here making some last stand over my message board Opinion....

[*bfine32*]

(10-10-2021, 12:22 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: McCaffrey didn’t even play last week, and only played 30% of the offensive snaps the week before. The fact is Chase has just been on another level compared to all the other WR’s from his draft so far.

Also, people “scream” at that poster because the Herbert infatuation isn’t even genuine. It’s more about him just not being Joe Burrow. Said poster has a super weird hate-on for Burrow. Going back to before we even officially drafted him. I can link a certain thread as proof. As pathetic as it sounds, it seems to have mostly stemmed from that poster having a beef with certain other poster’s who were banging the drum for Burrow the earliest and the loudest. I’m sure most know who the unnamed parties are here…

It’s hard to believe anyone would let some petty little silliness like that stop them from enjoying having a young stud franchise QB, but that’s their loss. It’s also just plain obnoxious since you know…Justin Herbert is a LA Charger, and not a Cincinnati Bengal.

Ja'Marr's been the best to date but to say he's been on another level than my man The Slim Reaper is a bit of hyperbole..