You can't ***** zero me.

[fredtoast]

(10-10-2021, 07:47 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: At the same time, if you think the attitude of the player doesn't matter, what would happen if every drive Burrow said "let's go 3 and out guys, it's what we do best anyway" with a sad face. Lol. Don't worry, their talent will pull them through.

I would say that the rest of the team would still be motivated to win.

That is one of the big problems I have with this whole idea that Burrow controls the mentality of the entire team.  These are not a bunch of lost little boys looking at Burrow to tell them how to act.  They are self-motivated, grown men who have played football at an elite level and made it to the NFL.  They don't just all sit around with their thumbs up their asses until Joe tells them to get excited.  In fact many of our top free agents have had a lot more success in the NFL than Joe has.

[*Nately120*]

I ain't saying Burrow lacks swagger, but I don't see why people are so sure he's got buckets of swagger over the last two QBs we had. Palmer and Dalton both willingly signed long-term deals with the Mike Brown-era Bengals. If that isn't a sign of insane confidence, I don't know what is. Boomer Easiason had the swagger to get to a SB and be the MVP and he saw Mike Brown and was like "I can't win here, send me to the Jets."

I know it's only year two, but the longer we make "If Burrow played for the ______ he'd look better" arguments, the more we tacitly agree with the folks who pulled the whole "I'm not saying, but I'm just saying" stuff about Burrow wanting to avoid being drafted by the Bengals. Herbert is on the Los Angeles Chargers with a rookie HC playing in a stadium where they don't usually even look like a home team. He shouldn't be in a much better situation than Burrow, but we've got time to improve, too.

[Big_Ern]

(10-11-2021, 07:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I would say that the rest of the team would still be motivated to win.

That is one of the big problems I have with this whole idea that Burrow controls the mentality of the entire team.  These are not a bunch of lost little boys looking at Burrow to tell them how to act.  They are self-motivated, grown men who have played football at an elite level and made it to the NFL.  They don't just all sit around with their thumbs up their asses until Joe tells them to get excited.  In fact many of our top free agents have had a lot more success in the NFL than Joe has.

Are you saying Tom Brady didn't change the mentality of the Bucs?  Because if he did, then I guess they were lost little boys before he got there.  

[*Nately120*]

(10-11-2021, 08:49 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Are you saying Tom Brady didn't change the mentality of the Bucs?  Because if he did, then I guess they were lost little boys before he got there.  

In addition to being better than Winston, Brady also convinced a lot of talent to join him in Tampa Bay.  Just look at today's game and the big performers.

Brady had 5 TDs and a 144 rating
Leonard Fournette was their top rusher with 5.6 YPC and a TD
Antonio Brown had 124 yards and 2 TDs

Those guys, and Gronk, weren't there before Brady was.  Tampa Bay got an offensive talent infusion in 2020 to go with their solid defense and it's paying off.  Brady didn't exactly transform another QBs roster into gold.

[TecmoBengals]

I like a QB with moxie, but as an isolated trait, it alone isn't getting the Bengals over the hump to consistent winning. I like Burrow's personality that we get a glimpse of when he's got a mic on & I hope it helps the team trend in the right direction.

[Big_Ern]

(10-11-2021, 09:11 AM)Nately120 Wrote: In addition to being better than Winston, Brady also convinced a lot of talent to join him in Tampa Bay.  Just look at today's game and the big performers.

Brady had 5 TDs and a 144 rating
Leonard Fournette was their top rusher with 5.6 YPC and a TD
Antonio Brown had 124 yards and 2 TDs

Those guys, and Gronk, weren't there before Brady was.  Tampa Bay got an offensive talent infusion in 2020 to go with their solid defense and it's paying off.  Brady didn't exactly transform another QBs roster into gold.

AB and fournette were role players in 2020. Fornette did nothing until the playoffs. Gronk wasn't much of a receiving threat for most of the year too. TB texted the entire team before games that they were going to win. So don't tell me a QBs confidence doesn't impact a team 

[*Nately120*]

(10-11-2021, 09:40 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: AB and fournette were role players in 2020. Fornette did nothing until the playoffs. Gronk wasn't much of a receiving threat for most of the year too. TB texted the entire team before games that they were going to win. So don't tell me a QBs confidence doesn't impact a team 

I'm just telling you it is hard to look at the TB situation and not conclude that talent wins football games.  You're using one of the most talented and proven NFL rosters to talk about swagger and confidence.

Swagger to me almost seems like a joke term.  I picture John Travolta strutting down the street to "Stayin' Alive" on a saturday night when he spends most of his time delivering paint and getting berated by his mother.  Big Ern McCracken was an awesomely funny depiction of a guy with swagger, as well.  Will Burrow get Munsoned in Cincy?

[fredtoast]

(10-11-2021, 09:40 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: AB and fournette were role players in 2020. Fornette did nothing until the playoffs. Gronk wasn't much of a receiving threat for most of the year too. TB texted the entire team before games that they were going to win. So don't tell me a QBs confidence doesn't impact a team 

Obviously Winston's 30 interceptions had nothing to do with the Bucs losing.

The only difference were the little notes Brady sent out.

This is getting silly.

[Big_Ern]

(10-11-2021, 09:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Obviously Winston 30 interceptions had nothing to do with the Bucks losing.

The only difference were the little notes Brady sent out.

This is getting silly.

The notes, his demeanor, the accountability he demanded, his attention to detail, his self-confidence.  

[*Nately120*]

(10-11-2021, 09:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Obviously Winston 30 interceptions had nothing to do with the Bucks losing.

The only difference were the little notes Brady sent out.

This is getting silly.

It takes a buttload of confidence to throw 30 INTs in one season and not immediately go into a self-imposed exile.

[Sled21]

(10-11-2021, 09:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Obviously Winston 30 interceptions had nothing to do with the Bucks losing.

The only difference were the little notes Brady sent out.

This is getting silly.

Well, in Winston's defense, he didn't realize you could let air out of the balls. 

[fredtoast]

(10-11-2021, 10:03 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: The notes, his demeanor, the accountability he demanded, his attention to detail, his self-confidence.  

Oh, right, I forgot about all of those.

Brady could have thrown 30 picks and still won the Super Bowl because of his "accountability".  All he would have to do is say "Oops, my fault." after each one of them and they would not have hurt the team at all.

[Big_Ern]

(10-11-2021, 12:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Oh, right, I forgot about all of those.

Brady could have thrown 30 picks and still won the Super Bowl because of his "accountability".  All he would have to do is say "Oops, my fault." after each one of them and they would not have hurt the team at all.

No one stated that. But to think confidence isn't contagious and that it doesn't impact performance is dumb. 

[fredtoast]

(10-11-2021, 01:34 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: No one stated that. But to think confidence isn't contagious and that it doesn't impact performance is dumb. 

To not look at actual facts is dumber.

Why did Brady not have any confidence to win his last playoff game with the Patriots but then suddenly regain all his confidence the next season?  Why didn't Burrow have any confidence last year?  Why didn't Johnny Manziel win a bunch of games with all the confidence he had?

NFL players are grown men who have all played at an elite level in order to make it to this level.  They don't just sit around feeling sorry for themselves until a quarterback starts sending them valentines.

[Big_Ern]

(10-11-2021, 01:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: To not look at actual facts is dumber.

Why did Brady not have any confidence to win his last playoff game with the Patriots but then suddenly regain all his confidence the next season?  Why didn't Burrow have any confidence last year?  Why didn't Johnny Manziel win a bunch of games with all the confidence he had?

NFL players are grown men who have all played at an elite level in order to make it to this level.  They don't just sit around feeling sorry for themselves until a quarterback starts sending them valentines.

Again you're making things up. Confidence helps and is contagious. Doesn't guarantee you'll win every game. 

[Bengalholic]

(10-11-2021, 07:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I would say that the rest of the team would still be motivated to win.

That is one of the big problems I have with this whole idea that Burrow controls the mentality of the entire team.  These are not a bunch of lost little boys looking at Burrow to tell them how to act.  They are self-motivated, grown men who have played football at an elite level and made it to the NFL.  They don't just all sit around with their thumbs up their asses until Joe tells them to get excited.  In fact many of our top free agents have had a lot more success in the NFL than Joe has.

Unless I missed it, I've never seen anyone state that Burrow 'controls the mentality' of the team. I have seen people say Burrow has given his team, the organization and the fan base a sense of optimism that, in part, stems from his attitude, demeanor and confidence level...in addition to his talent. 

[fredtoast]

(10-11-2021, 02:00 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Again you're making things up. Confidence helps and is contagious. Doesn't guarantee you'll win every game. 

Actually I posted specific facts to back up my position.

You have to address those before you can accuse me of "making things up".

[JaggedJimmyJay]

(10-11-2021, 01:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: To not look at actual facts is dumber.

Why did Brady not have any confidence to win his last playoff game with the Patriots but then suddenly regain all his confidence the next season?  Why didn't Burrow have any confidence last year?  Why didn't Johnny Manziel win a bunch of games with all the confidence he had?

NFL players are grown men who have all played at an elite level in order to make it to this level.  They don't just sit around feeling sorry for themselves until a quarterback starts sending them valentines.

You are being obtuse and strawmanning every argument you encounter in this thread. Absolutely nobody has claimed that confidence wins games alone or that other players aren’t prideful without quarterback support.

[Bengalholic]

(10-11-2021, 01:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: NFL players are grown men who have all played at an elite level in order to make it to this level.  They don't just sit around feeling sorry for themselves until a quarterback starts sending them valentines.

You're literally the only one talking about players feeling sorry for themselves or sitting around with their 'thumbs up their asses' until a QB comes along to tell them different. 

Not sure why you continue to exaggerate people's statements or create fictional scenarios to argue against.

[fredtoast]

(10-11-2021, 02:42 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: You are being obtuse and strawmanning every argument you encounter in this thread. Absolutely nobody has claimed that confidence wins games alone..

Actually that is the main point of the OP

(10-09-2021, 07:07 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: This is what I mean by "not nice", Burrow is cocky, this is why we will win playoff games.