Roster turnover

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-25-2021, 04:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Two year contract extension for Preston Brown then cut him 8 games into it.

Good one.  Who did he get rid of to start Brown?  Or who was on the bench that should have been playing MLB?  

[*jason*]

(11-25-2021, 10:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: That's a pretty good one, although I think Webb was a band aid on an axe wound of a defense.  But that was a poor personnel choice.  I don't think he got rid of a solid player to start Webb, though.  He was simply trying to fill a hole with a veteran that knew his system.  

Like Ricardo Allen.  When I saw his name in the offseason, I was like "eh?", but he has proven to be a solid addition and allows Lou to rotate some "big nickel" looks with three safeties.  That is something the Pats almost do as their base defense, and it just gives a QB a little more "pause" because it creates some new looks and allows the pass rush another split second to get home.

Look, I know Anarumo has been the whipping boy around here, much like ZT before him, but I said I would give him this season as a "no excuses"-type season.  You know what?  He has done a damn good job.  In this division, and today's high-flying NFL offenses, he has done a damn good job.

The defense was extremely good the first seven weeks of the season.  SEVEN STRAIGHT WEEKS.  No clunkers at all.  Then, on their third straight road game, they got beat by the Jets.  They still should have won that game, up 11 in the 4th quarter, but it was a bad day for the defense.  They followed that up with another bad outing against the Browns.  Then, the Raiders game.  

They shut down their slot WR and completely eliminated their other WRs.  Waller had a solid day, but no one else did.  Against a desperate team, on the road, that has a pretty good offense and a veteran QB.  Held Derek Carr to 85 yards below his game average yardage, and forced two turnovers.  Held them to just 72 yards rushing. 

The remainder of the schedule has three more AFC North games, and he had great games against pitt and Baltimore.  Now, they get them at home.

I have no doubt the offense will put up 24 points or more every game.  Whether the Bengals make the playoffs will rest on Lou's shoulders.  He has earned my trust to this point.  10 games in and his defense has only had 2 poor outings.  Say they have two more poor outings down the final 7 games, then I would say the Bengals will be 11-6 and possibly win the division.  

Based on what this team had last year, if he does that, I think he should be in serious consideration of an assistant coach of the year award.  

Yes, there is a lot of time to go, but he has earned that discussion to this point.  

What has me so excited is that 5 of the next 6 are at home!  Almost no travel!  Look how the defense performed when they weren't on the road for three straight games (one of just two teams to have that on thier schedule). 

Who Dey!  

I know... Outside of a couple games, I feel sorta petty to make a peep about Lou this year.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-25-2021, 11:04 AM)jason Wrote: I know... Outside of a couple games, I feel sorta petty to make a peep about Lou this year.

People also don't seem to give any credit for building the defense, and making the personnel work together in a relatively short amount of time. One guy that we all seem to really like (or love after the hit on JJSS) is Vonn Bell.  He seems to be a guy that helps everything work.  He and Bates are going to be huge down the stretch with a second shot against pitt, Baltimore, and Cleveland.  

I'm so excited at the prospect of effectively ending the steeler's chances and potentially taking the lead (barely) in the AFC North should the Browns be able to beat the Ravens on the road.  

[SuperBowlBound!]

(11-24-2021, 08:44 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And this is exactly what proves my point about how clueless the Bengals coaches were.

Here are the stats for the FIRST FIVE GAMES of the season put up by the guy you claimed was "playing like garbage"

17 tkl.... 2 TFL.... 3 QB hits.... 1 sack... 2 PD

Now here are the FULL SEASON stats for the guys the coaches benched Dunlap behind

Bledsoe... 17 tkl.... 0 TFL.... 0 QB hits.... 0 sacks... 2 PD
Kareem... 19 tkl.... 1 TFL.... 2 QB hits.... 1 sacks... 0 PD

Great job manipulating stats. 

I cannot believe you actually think Carlos Dunlap was having a good season and should not have been demoted. That is laughable. It is not that the coaches thought Bledsoe and Kareem were better it is because that is all they had. They were rookies and did what they were told to do on defense. That made them dependable on a play where they were needed to secure the edge instead of freelancing. 

Carlos Dunlap's 7 games that season proves my point. He mostly played like garbage. I think he played against a backup Off tackle that he abused in the Eagles game. Without the Eagle game he would have 9 tackles in 6 games. WOW!

1. Los Angeles Chargers - 3 Tackle (1 Solo), 1 QB Hit
2. Cleveland Browns - 3 Tackles (1 Solo), 0 Sacks, 0 QB Hit
3. Philadelphia Eagles - 11 Tackles (10 Solo), 0 Sacks, 1 QB Hit
4. Jacksonville Jaguars - 1 Tackle (0 Solo), 0 Sacks, 0 QB Hit
5. Baltimore Ravens - 1 tackle (1 Solo), 1 Sack, 1 QB Hit
6. Indianapolis Colts - 1 Tackle (1 Solo), 0 Sacks, 0 QB Hit
7. Cleveland Browns - 0 Tackles, 1 QB Hit

Since it is hard to tackle people when you are not playing we should compare snap counts instead of games. 

Dunlap - 277 def snaps, 18 tackles, 1 sack, 2 TFL (3 year 40 million)
Kareem - 259 def snaps, 19 tackles, 1 sack, 1 TFL (4 Year 3.65 Mil)
Bledsoe - 312 def snaps, 17 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 TFL (2 Year 1.39 Mil)

[SuperBowlBound!]

(11-24-2021, 09:14 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Again, by resume or the year he got demoted?  If we go by resume, then AJ Green would have stayed and kept Ja'Marr Chase on the bench.  And one thing that you can't see with the stats is what his assignment was and what he actually executed.  

He would take himself out of so many plays, taking that wide arc around the OT and the QB or RB could step right in to his lane.  I can't believe you didn't notice that.  It was pathetic "show off" football, just trying to luck in to a sack and not doing his assignment at all.  

Your next question will be "how do I know his assignment" and you would be correct.  Just like PFF, I don't know his assignment.  What I do know is the role of that position and he had no interest in containment or run defense.  He was trying to get stats that pad his paycheck and nothing else.  

This is so true.

Defenses play better when every does their job and nobody freelances. I think Carlos freelance and was called out one too many times and he did not like that. Especially from a staff he already did not like.

[SuperBowlBound!]

(11-24-2021, 10:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: he was still an "impact talent".  His production the second half of the season with Seattle proves this.

Only difference was coaching.

The difference in Seattle was not coaching he was playing for a new contract.

I just sit back and laugh that Seattle ended up with Dunlap and now they suck!

It is hard enough to win in the NFL. The margin of error is usually really tight. 
Having 1 or more malcontents on your team compounds that problem.
Teams win by playing as a unit. Everyone doing their job.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-25-2021, 10:34 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Those look to be team issues, and the challenge was "personnel decisions".  Where did he promote a turd and kick out a stud?

Well if Lou's coaching/use of personnel is bad than it's impossible to judge personnel changes. Bottom line is Carlos Dunlap and Lou were at a head and that happens. Dunlap was getting older and I think defensive end is one of the tougher positions to maintain a high level of play. To act like it was a lack of effort on his part or that his departure is a key reason the defense has been better this year is ridiculous in my opinion.

[kalibengal]

(11-23-2021, 10:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Avoiding the Dunlap debate. Yes this is a good team the coaches and FO have put together that obviously fits what
the coaches wanted to install. It shows on and off the field and I think this team could make a big time run as long
as they are prepared week to week.

a year later and I definitely like seeing Sam Hubbard at LE over Dunlap (2019 -2020). He has been playing the run better the Dunlap (Imo) making great TFLs and is pumping up his sack numbers...with NO DRAMA. 

  

[grampahol]

I'm really ambivalent about it to be honest. I've always assumed he was losing his physical prowess with age and handled it terribly. That's certainly no crime. It happens to a lot of people as they age and as a football player he's been subjected to more bumps and bruises than your ordinary office worker who ages at the very same rate as football players. The earth going around the sun determines the rate of aging..
Anyway, it could have been handled differently, sure, but he did give us the best years of his football career so for that he at least deserved the right to have his say whether you agree with it or not..and hey, I've given the best years of my bengalsboardom to this board too... I WILL express my opinion about things I don't really know much about before it's all said and done.. 

[*jason*]

(11-25-2021, 11:18 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: People also don't seem to give any credit for building the defense, and making the personnel work together in a relatively short amount of time. One guy that we all seem to really like (or love after the hit on JJSS) is Vonn Bell.  He seems to be a guy that helps everything work.  He and Bates are going to be huge down the stretch with a second shot against pitt, Baltimore, and Cleveland.  

I'm so excited at the prospect of effectively ending the steeler's chances and potentially taking the lead (barely) in the AFC North should the Browns be able to beat the Ravens on the road.  

Yep... Honestly Bell was the 2020 pickup I was most excited about. Admittedly I'm a shameless OSU homer, but you're right... Vonn Bell is not only a consistent and very solid player; he's also a proverbial glue guy.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-25-2021, 10:32 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Do you have a link for this?  Who was playing LDE last year?

PFF individual snap counts. I have to do it player by player to get the detailed snap counts. They don't do strictly left end, right end. They're broken down by where they align. Over the tackle, wide of the tackle, etc.

Lawson's total snap count for the left side is the 16 at "LEO" and 13 snaps at LOLB.

He does have 20 snaps at "RE" as well as the 532 at "REO" and 138 at ROLB but he doesn't have any snaps at "LE". 

Hubbard bounced all around the first half of the year and after his injury he played about 95% of his snaps on the left side.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-25-2021, 12:19 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well if Lou's coaching/use of personnel is bad than it's impossible to judge personnel changes. Bottom line is Carlos Dunlap and Lou were at a head and that happens. Dunlap was getting older and I think defensive end is one of the tougher positions to maintain a high level of play. To act like it was a lack of effort on his part or that his departure is a key reason the defense has been better this year is ridiculous in my opinion.

Then you are calling Dave Lapham, one of the most dialed-in sportscasters you will ever see, ridiculous as he pointed this out time and time again.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-25-2021, 12:28 PM)jason Wrote: Yep... Honestly Bell was the 2020 pickup I was most excited about. Admittedly I'm a shameless OSU, but you're right... Vonn Bell is not only a consistent and very solid player; he's also a proverbial glue guy.

I was most excited about Reader, given the continual problems inside since losing Peko.  However, I was VERY excited about Bell as well and he has proven to be an absolute gem.  

With the injuries to Waynes, this could have gone the other way....the Bengals could have said "see what happens when we spend in FA?", but the massive impact of Bell and others has strengthened this position instead of weakening it.  

Now, with one of the more enviable positions in the NFL as far as cap space/current players signed for several years, the future is very bright.  

As much as I love that, right now it is just so much fun to be in the thick of the playoff chase and in a position to take a lead in the division with 6 weeks to go.  They are "ahead of schedule", if you will.  Playing with house money.  If they can stay healthy, the defense stays on track, and they get in to the playoffs, they have every bit as much of a chance as any other team in the league to make it to the Super Bowl.  

EVERY sports analyst picked the Bengals fourth in the AFC North.  There are NO dominant teams.  It is anybody's game at this point (with a few obvious exceptions) and I have been so impressed with the improvement in coaching, and overall execution of the team. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-25-2021, 12:43 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Then you are calling Dave Lapham, one of the most dialed-in sportscasters you will ever see, ridiculous as he pointed this out time and time again.  

Lapham is ridiculous. He is hardly objective. He already is on record publically calling out Gresham for quitting on the team for not being able to play while "healthy".... While the guy needed back surgery. He is a clown.

[KillerGoose]

(11-25-2021, 12:35 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I know that there's a lot to coverage's and defensive schemes and I'm not pretending to know anywhere near a coach at any level. But coaches can out think themselves or not adjust there scheme to match a certain situation that a casual fan can clearly see is a problem. I can tell watching the game that we can't give Mike White 400yds at 3.7YPA and maybe we should cover the running back. Now I might not be able to call the defensive to use to achieve this but apparently neither can Lou. But I'm not a NFL defensive coordinator. 

Was the 'scheme' the problem, or was it the execution? Playing soft coverage and keeping things in front of you isn't a bad idea in a vacuum. Letting them dink and dunk down the field eats time and forces them to be consistent which is really hard to do in the NFL. I'm not saying that Lou did everything perfectly, he could have switched it up, but I do understood what he was trying to do. The problem is that the players failed in coming up and making their tackles. You don't allow 278 yards after catch otherwise, which by the way, is the 6th most yards after catch allowed since 1999. The Bengals missed 15 tackles in that game. 

The Bengals talent failed them. The Jets were perfectly content with throwing short passes and the Bengals were perfectly content with keeping the play in front of them. If they make those tackles, then we aren't talking about this, but they didn't. People love to say "hey, just man up and blitz them! It's a backup QB!" but you can't do that as a base defense. No team in the NFL plays more man than zone and you can't blitz every down. If you sit in man, teams bring out crossers, whips and other man beating routes. Your DBs also get gassed. Offenses will literally call plays with a WR running a 9 route with no intention of throwing it, just to gas your DB. Then, they'll rotate that WR out and hit the tired DB who just ran two 40's in a row. 

Point being, the calls weren't that bad. Play zone, keep it in front of you and rally to the ball. If they want to throw it short, then let them and we'll tackle. The problem is, Cincinnati didn't tackle. I blame the players more than I do Lou and I'm not necessarily a Lou truther. 

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2021, 01:18 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Point being, the calls weren't that bad. Play zone, keep it in front of you and rally to the ball. If they want to throw it short, then let them and we'll tackle. The problem is, Cincinnati didn't tackle. I blame the players more than I do Lou and I'm not necessarily a Lou truther. 

When one player can't cover his assignment I blame the player.  When the entire team suddenly has the same problem covering their assignment I blame the coach.  Individual players are up and down from game to game, but I don't see every single player suddenly go bad at the same time.

And even if it was all the players messing up at the same time the coaches have to make some kind of adjustments after 3 quarters of the EXACT SAME THING.

Back in '19 we played the Steelers when they had no rushing game and Roethlisbereger was out with injury.  Tomlin used a WR in the wildcat formation and ran all over us.  Lou just could not come up with any adjustment or answer to what they were doing.

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2021, 11:45 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I just sit back and laugh that Seattle ended up with Dunlap and now they suck!

Bengal fan laughing at a team that made the playoffs last year.

That there is high comedy.

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2021, 11:34 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Great job manipulating stats. 

I cannot believe you actually think Carlos Dunlap was having a good season and should not have been demoted. That is laughable. It is not that the coaches thought Bledsoe and Kareem were better it is because that is all they had.

If all you have are players that are worse then you don't bench the better player.  Taylor pulled the same exact shit with Dalton and Finley.

(11-25-2021, 11:34 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: Since it is hard to tackle people when you are not playing we should compare snap counts instead of games. 

Dunlap - 277 def snaps, 18 tackles, 1 sack, 2 TFL (3 year 40 million)
Kareem - 259 def snaps, 19 tackles, 1 sack, 1 TFL (4 Year 3.65 Mil)
Bledsoe - 312 def snaps, 17 tackles, 0 sacks, 0 TFL (2 Year 1.39 Mil)

Great point.  Lets look at Dunlaps stats compared to what Bledsoe and Kareem combined for in OVER TWICE AS MANY SNAPS

..............Dunlap......Kar/Bled
TFL............  2............  1
QB hits......  3.............  2
Sacks.......... 1.............  1
PD.............. 2.............  2

[KillerGoose]

(11-25-2021, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: When one player can't cover his assignment I blame the player.  When the entire team suddenly has the same problem covering their assignment I blame the coach.  Individual players are up and down from game to game, but I don't see every single player suddenly go bad at the same time.

And even if it was all the players messing up at the same time the coaches have to make some kind of adjustments after 3 quarters of the EXACT SAME THING.

Back in '19 we played the Steelers when they had no rushing game and Roethlisbereger was out with injury.  Tomlin used a WR in the wildcat formation and ran all over us.  Lou just could not come up with any adjustment or answer to what they were doing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Lou is blameless. There was a call where he had the LBers in a double A-gap position and White read it pre-snap and hit the seam where the hole was. A look like that can really stress the low defenders. It was a big play for the Jets. Conversely, on one of the touchdowns, Lou called a cover 3 look and Jessie vacated the middle of the field and White threw a TD right where he was. There is blame on both sides, but Lou isn't the sole reason for that game. The players also shit the bed. 

[*bfine32*]

(11-25-2021, 01:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If all you have are players that are worse then you don't bench the better player.  Taylor pulled the same exact shit with Dalton and Finley.




Great point.  Lets look at Dunlaps stats compared to what Bledsoe and Kareem combined for in OVER TWICE AS MANY SNAPS

..............Dunlap......Kar/Bled
TFL............  2............  1
QB hits......  3.............  2
Sacks.......... 1.............  1
PD.............. 2.............  2

Why did you leave out tackles? 

Those Dunlap stats are pathetic..it's easy to see. The coaches would have been complete idiots not to try something to spark the Defense.

MLK got mad because he was sucking, so he manned up and blamed it on other people.