Where is the Improvement with giving up Sacks

[Essex Johnson]

We are on pace for 51 sacks, on pace to have as many as last year. Pollack is really turning into a sack machine Oline Coach, over the last three seasons included the Jets,who gave up 105 sacks in those two years. Of course not all sacks are on the Oline but that is relative with every time in the league but our overall sacks are above the average and to think for 11 games we have been a very healthy Oline plus added better pieces in the off-season, with us banged up this week will be scary how they decided to play us now and down the road

[Nicomo Cosca]

Who you want to replace Frank Pollack with?

[Frank Booth]

Pollack has helped the run game but Burrow’s still getting killed back there overall

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-07-2021, 11:50 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Pollack has helped the run game but Burrow’s still getting killed back there overall

Which is partly on him. The strip sack against the Chargers is a perfect example. I put that one more on Burrow than Jonah tbh.

Talked about this play for a while on the podcast. Notice that Williams takes the pass rusher 10y deep - def can do a better job finishing - but unclear to me why Burrow takes 2 hitches instead of just ripping it to Chase immediately.

2 of my favorite throws from him to follow pic.twitter.com/Y9gJMOEFCR

— Jake Liscow (@JakeLiscow) December 7, 2021

[Rubekahn29]

Doesn’t burrow have one of the worst pressure to sack % in the NFL? Wouldn’t that correlate to putting a lot of the onus on him? Chargers game not included. That was a train wreck.

[Essex Johnson]

(12-07-2021, 11:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Who you want to replace Frank Pollack with?

My post was about our performance not who should replace him, you want to start that thread go ahead. I was just pointing out the obvious is all or are you still on the Line is doing a great job theme?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-08-2021, 12:10 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: My post was about our performance not who should replace him, you want to start that thread go ahead. I was just pointing out the obvious is all or are you still on the Line is doing a great job theme?

The line's doing a good-enough job and you know it.

You're being incredibly disingenuous and inflammatory.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-08-2021, 12:10 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: My post was about our performance not who should replace him, you want to start that thread go ahead. I was just pointing out the obvious is all or are you still on the Line is doing a great job theme?

We were missing 2 starters. Any team would struggle in that situation.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-08-2021, 12:10 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Doesn’t burrow have one of the worst pressure to sack % in the NFL? Wouldn’t that correlate to putting a lot of the onus on him? Chargers game not included. That was a train wreck.

Yep. Anyone that actually watches the games can see Burrow is good for at least one a week that’s on him. And I’m as big a Burrow guy as there is, but I still call it like I see it.

There’s obviously still work to be done, but merely citing sack totals (from another team no less) is a pretty lousy way to judge an OL coach. He’s helped Joe Mixon become the 2nd leading rusher in the league behind Jonathan Taylor, and has the pass protection playing well enough for Burrow to be in the top 10 in passing yards, TD’s, completion %, and passer rating. He’s obviously doing something right.

We’re not 7-5 without Pollack. Period.

[NotBigzo]

In terms of sack total we’re on pace to have more, not less, despite having a more balanced offense this year compared to last.

Some of you are too much of a Homer to look at facts. You’re all a bunch of pseudo Denny’s.

[NotBigzo]

It’s starts with replacing Trey, Reiff, and possibly Jonah depending on the tackle prospects.

Average at best but getting up there in west and tear. Has to be some young free agents with more upside.

Draft Iowa’s center.

Adeniji and Spain are good enough.

Top 10 o line in two seasons.

[Nicomo Cosca]

Now we should consider replacing Jonah? :lol:

This is the kind of stuff that makes having a rational discussion about the OL next to impossible on this board.

[NotBigzo]

(12-08-2021, 02:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Now we should consider replacing Jonah?

This is the kind of stuff that makes having a rational discussion about the OL next to impossible on this board.

Jonah isn’t a long term solution. He gets clapped by elite pass rushers and after watching big whit growing up I want more.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-08-2021, 02:07 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: Jonah isn’t a long term solution. He gets clapped by elite pass rushers and after watching big whit growing up I want more.

I shouldn’t even humor you (considering this is a troll 2nd account), but Whit was not Whit in his 2nd season of playing. And Jonah is absolutely a long term solution. He’s currently grading out at 75.8, and is one of the best young players on the team (24). He will likely be our LT for the next decade.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-08-2021, 02:17 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I shouldn’t even humor you (considering this is a troll 2nd account), but Whit was not Whit in his 2nd season of playing. And Jonah is absolutely a long term solution. He’s currently grading out at 75.8, and is one of the best young players on the team (24). He will likely be our LT for the next decade.

Tis the season. Troll-lalalalaaaaaaalalala-lol. 

[Joelist]

Okay which previously banned poster do we have here?

Nicomo is correct - Burrow has self inflicted a lot of the sacks. Out of 32 teams in the NFL the Bengals have the 9th most time in the pocket - which means Burrow is having time to throw and someplace to throw from. He DOES hold the ball and he HAS made some perplexing decisions (two weeks in a row just stepping into the pocket would have turned a sack into a completed pass). None of this means Burrow is not a Grade A prospect - it means he needs to improve his pocket awareness and also move more in the pocket.

Was the line missing two starters and with green as grass backups out of sync Sunday? Yep - it happens. Do the Bengals need to get better at blitz pickup and backs pass protecting? Yep. Can the line get better? Yep. But it is not as bad as some try to represent.

[bengaloo]

Burrow is definitely responsible for a good bit of sacks, but we also still need some pieces on the OL imo. We could really use a stud C to start, probably an upgrade at RG depending how Adeniji and/or Carmen progresses. A long term solution at RT. Rieff has played well for the most part but has also struggled at times. He's solid but getting up there in age. Who knows about Carmen at this point. He has potential but he has to reach it. Smith has a high ceiling it seems, but he's injured so who knows. Prince hasnt impressed me much. A flash here and there. With all the weapons we have, if we could build a real dominant OL, this offense would be damn near unstoppable.

[Joelist]

(12-08-2021, 03:31 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Burrow is definitely responsible for a good bit of sacks, but we also still need some pieces on the OL imo. We could really use a stud C to start, probably an upgrade at RG depending how Adeniji and/or Carmen progresses. A long term solution at RT. Rieff has played well for the most part but has also struggled at times. He's solid but getting up there in age. Who knows about Carmen at this point. He has potential but he has to reach it. Smith has a high ceiling it seems, but he's injured so who knows. Prince hasnt impressed me much. A flash here and there. With all the weapons we have, if we could build a real dominant OL, this offense would be damn near unstoppable.

I DEFINITELY want a veteran Center and a veteran Guard out of Free Agency this offseason. Right Tackle hopefully is a function of keeping Reiff and having him backed up by possibly D'Ante Smith. Remember there is a LOT of youth in the OL room and it needs to be refined and coached up. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-08-2021, 03:43 AM)Joelist Wrote: I DEFINITELY want a veteran Center and a veteran Guard out of Free Agency this offseason. Right Tackle hopefully is a function of keeping Reiff and having him backed up by possibly D'Ante Smith. Remember there is a LOT of youth in the OL room and it needs to be refined and coached up. 

The veteran center market isn’t all that great this year. The best options are probably Jason Kelce (34) and Ben Jones (32). Could be short term answers, but it might be better to just draft one early. Hopkins has one year left on his contract so his replacement wouldn’t necessarily have to start right away. Perfect scenario Linderbaum falls to us (or we trade up for him) and he beats out Hopkins and we cut Trey with only a little over 1 mil in dead cap.

[samhain]

(12-08-2021, 03:31 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Burrow is definitely responsible for a good bit of sacks, but we also still need some pieces on the OL imo. We could really use a stud C to start, probably an upgrade at RG depending how Adeniji and/or Carmen progresses. A long term solution at RT. Rieff has played well for the most part but has also struggled at times. He's solid but getting up there in age. Who knows about Carmen at this point. He has potential but he has to reach it. Smith has a high ceiling it seems, but he's injured so who knows. Prince hasnt impressed me much. A flash here and there. With all the weapons we have, if we could build a real dominant OL, this offense would be damn near unstoppable.

I see zero chance they take a guard unless they just don't extend Spain, which would be absolutely criminal.  Adeniji has played well enough to keep the job and Carman showed some promise and was a high pick.  They've stuck with worse players for longer than either of the guys.  Smith looms as well, and it looked like he was going to be a guard to begin his career.  

Totally agree about getting a center.  If they shell out money for another big FA, I'd love it to be on a center.  No draft crapshoot, just pay a proven commodity.  Allen, Jensen, Jones, IDC.  I like Kelce but he's got some mileage and an injury history.  Incredible intangibles and leadership qualities, though.  James Daniels is another option, as Mikey loves his local kids, but he seems to be excelling at RG moreso than he did at center, so paying a guy big money to play a position he hasn't proven himself at seems risky.  

I'm all for drafting another T.  I like Reiff, but there needs to be a long-term answer and I'm not sure it's here right now.  Ideally, I'd like to see one drafted early to play RT and then be a possible hedge vs Jonah leaving in a worst case scenario next year.  I'm a biased Lexingtonian, But Darian Kinnard is a mountain of a human being with good feet that's been getting it done in the SEC for a long time.  Should be available when we pick....  Also played for OC Liam Cohen at UK, who came from the Rams, who you'd think runs a system somewhat similar to Zac's, but that might be a stretch.