Return game

[fredtoast]

Before the season started I felt this was one area where were pretty solid. Brandon Wilson has been one of the best KO return men in the league and I felt Phillips would provide a spark at PR.  We have not been really bad at returns (PR-17th, KR-19th), but we have not gotten any key game changing plays.  Brandon had a big Kick return against the Packers, but it did not lead to point.

It seems that over the last 20 years when the Bengals have playoff seasons they have gotten big plays at crucial moments of big games.  The following list is not ALL of the big returns the Bengals have had.  These are just really big plays that have effected the outcome of the games in playoff seasons.  Only one of them came in a loss, but that '15 game with the Cards was huge and we should have at least forced overtime.

Tab Perry
2005 Steelers (Super Bowl Champions)... Steelers score TD in third quarter to tie game 24-24.  Perry returns kick off 94 yards to set up 3 yards TD drive for lead that Bengals never relinquish.  Win 38-31

Quan Cosby
2009 Packers (NFC Wildcard)... Bengals trail 14-7 in 2nd quarter when Cosby's 60 yard punt return sets up tying TD drive of just 12 yards.  Bengals win by 7.

Bernard Scott
2009 Steelers... 6-2 Bengals play 6-2 Steelers at Heinz Field for first place in the division.  Bengals win 18-12 without scoring an offensive TD thanks to Scott's 96 yard kick return td.

Brandon Tate
2011 Rams... Tied 6-6 just a minute away from the 4th quarter Tate's 56 yard punt return sets up the Bengals to score their first TD on just an 18 yard drive.  We hold on to win by 3.  This was actually a very big win that season.  The Bengals were on the road and reeling.  After starting the season 6-2 they had gone 1-4 and at 7-6 looked like they were fading out of the playoff discussion.
2013 Bills... 29 yard punt return in overtime sets up Bengals game winning FG after just 8 yard drive.
2014 Broncos (AFCW Champs)... Trailing 27-28 with 7:30 left in 4th quarter Tate's 49 yard punt return sets up game winning FG after just 7 yard drive.
2015 Cardinals (NFCW Champs)... Cards kick FG to take 10 point lead with just 6:30 left in 4th quarter.  Tate returns kick off 58 yards to set up short TD drive for Bengals.

Adam Jones
2012 Browns...81yd punt return TD in 7 point win over Browns
2014 Panthers (NFCS Champs)... 97yd Kick off return with less than 5 minutes left with Bengals trailing by 7.  Set up game tying TD.  Final 37-37
2014 Broncos (AFCW Champs)... Denver takes advantage of long kick return to score a TD just 45 seconds into the second half and pull within one score 14-20.  Pac answers with an 80 kick off return. Bengals score a TD in 3 plays to stretch the lead to 13.  It was the Bengal's last offensive TD of the game, but they come from behind to win in the 4th quarter in one of the most exciting prime time victories in Bengal history. (See Brandon Tate above)
2015 Seahawks (NFC Wild card)... Bengals trail 24-7 in 4th quarter. Pac sparks a comeback with a 35 yard punt return that set up a 33 yard td drive in just 4 plays.  In overtime his 19 yard punt return allowed the Bengals to kick the game winning FG after just a 32 yard drive.

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-05-2021, 11:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Before the season started I felt this was one area where were pretty solid. Brandon Wilson has been one of the best KO return men in the league and I felt Phillips would provide a spark at PR.  We have not been really bad at returns (PR-17th, KR-19th), but we have not gotten any key game changing plays.  Brandon had a big Kick return against the Packers, but it did not lead to point.

It seems that over the last 20 years when the Bengals have playoff seasons they have gotten big plays at crucial moments of big games.  The following list is not ALL of the big returns the Bengals have had.  These are just really big plays that have effected the outcome of the games in playoff seasons.  Only one of them came in a loss, but that '15 game with the Cards was huge and we should have at least forced overtime.

Tab Perry
2005 Steelers (Super Bowl Champions)... Steelers score TD in third quarter to tie game 24-24.  Perry returns kick off 94 yards to set up 3 yards TD drive for lead that Bengals never relinquish.  Win 38-31

Quan Cosby
2009 Packers (NFC Wildcard)... Bengals trail 14-7 in 2nd quarter when Cosby's 60 yard punt return sets up tying TD drive of just 12 yards.  Bengals win by 7.

Bernard Scott
2009 Steelers... 6-2 Bengals play 6-2 Steelers at Heinz Field for first place in the division.  Bengals win 18-12 without scoring an offensive TD thanks to Scott's 96 yard kick return td.

Brandon Tate
2011 Rams... Tied 6-6 just a minute away from the 4th quarter Tate's 56 yard punt return sets up the Bengals to score their first TD on just an 18 yard drive.  We hold on to win by 3.  This was actually a very big win that season.  The Bengals were on the road and reeling.  After starting the season 6-2 they had gone 1-4 and at 7-6 looked like they were fading out of the playoff discussion.
2013 Bills... 29 yard punt return in overtime sets up Bengals game winning FG after just 8 yard drive.
2015 Broncos (AFCW Champs)... Trailing 27-28 with 7:30 left in 4th quarter Tate's 49 yard punt return sets up game winning FG after just 7 yard drive.
2015 Cardinals (NFCW Champs)... Cards kick FG to take 10 point lead with just 6:30 left in 4th quarter.  Tate returns kick off 58 yards to set up short TD drive for Bengals.

Adam Jones
2012 Browns...81yd punt return TD in 7 point win over Browns
2014 Panthers (NFCS Champs)... 97yd Kick off return with less than 5 minutes left with Bengals trailing by 7.  Set up game tying TD.  Final 37-37
2014 Broncos (AFCW Champs)... Denver takes advantage of long kick return to score a TD just 45 seconds into the second half to pull within one score 14-20.  Pac answers with an 80 kick off return. Bengals score a TD in 3 plays to stretch the lead to 13.  It was the Bengal's last offensive TD of the game, but they come from behind to win in the 4th quarter in one of the most exciting prime time victories in Bengal history. (See Barndon Tate above)
2015 Seahawks (NFC Wild card)... Bengals trail 24-7 in 4th quarter. Pac sparks a comeback with a 35 yard punt return that set up a 33 yard td drive in just 4 plays.  In overtime his 19 yard punt return allowed the Bengals to kick the game winning FG after just a 32 yard drive.

Tate's PR was the 2014 Monday night game as well. 

[fredtoast]

(12-05-2021, 11:56 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Tate's PR was the 2014 Monday night game as well. 

Yes.  Not only one of our biggest prime time wins ever, but also one of the most exciting.

[*bfine32*]

Stanford Jennings had a nice return in a pretty big loss.

[C0de_M0nkey]

Wait…Brandon Tate was good? I thought everyone hated him.

[fredtoast]

(12-05-2021, 01:27 PM)C0de_M0nkey Wrote: Wait…Brandon Tate was good? I thought everyone hated him.

Bengal fans have hated on a lot of good players.

Are you old enough to remember when Justin Smith was a bum.  Or Domata Peko?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-05-2021, 01:27 PM)C0de_M0nkey Wrote: Wait…Brandon Tate was good? I thought everyone hated him.

Everyone hated him as a WR.

In 2014 he played 46% of the offensive snaps and produced 17/193/1. 

Also he was pretty terrible returning his last year here, at 24th in punt return avg and 24th in kick return avg. That stuck out big time because it was 2015, so he was one of the few blatant weak spots on that team. Made doubly worse by the fact that Adam Jones had been a 1st Team All-Pro Returner just the year before, so that 24th/24th (which was already bad) looked more like 54th/54th in comparison.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

Adam and Tate had HUGE returns against the Seahawks in '11 as well.

Adam's was large and it ended with him cramping up, while Tate's went for a TD.

Pooka was absolutely horrific today, especially not letting the second one go OB.

[fredtoast]

I think I might have jinxed us with this thread.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-17-2021, 12:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think I might have jinxed us with this thread.

Dammit man!

[*PhilHos*]

(12-17-2021, 12:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think I might have jinxed us with this thread.

You and Housh, man. 

[Clark W Griswold]

(12-05-2021, 12:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Stanford Jennings had a nice return in a pretty big loss.

Still too soon…

[Clark W Griswold]

(12-05-2021, 02:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengal fans have hated on a lot of good players.

Are you old enough to remember when Justin Smith was a bum.  Or Domata Peko?

Smith was better in SFs 3-4 defense as he and Peko were solid but not spectacular players.
Smith just didn’t get enough sacks/pressures for a guy picked number 4 over all. Expectations are higher but he was a good player not great. Very hard working guy who gave 100% but not athletic enough to be an elite pass rusher. The 49ers scheme for him much better.

[fredtoast]

(12-17-2021, 01:37 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: Smith was better in SFs 3-4 defense 

No he wasn't

Bengals.....7 years... 107 games... 470 tkls... 43.5 sacks... 21 PD
Niners.......7 years... 110 games... 414 tkls... 43.5 sacks...  9 PD

(12-17-2021, 01:37 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote:  he and Peko were solid but not spectacular players.  

Justin Smith was a spectacular player who I believe had more tackles than any other DE in the league while he was with the Bengals.  Some Bengals fans who thought sacks were the only stat that mattered tried to mock Smith's tackle numbers by claiming he "jumped on the pile 5 yards downfield" when that was not true at all.  But NFL teams were smarter than that.  they recognized that he was an elite player and that is why he got paid like an elite player in free agency.

[TecmoBengals]

(12-17-2021, 02:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No he wasn't

Bengals.....7 years... 107 games... 470 tkls... 43.5 sacks... 21 PD
Niners.......7 years... 110 games... 414 tkls... 43.5 sacks...  9 PD

Yes he was.

Bengals: 0 Pro Bowl selections, 0 First-Team All Pro selections
49'ers: 5 Pro Bowl selections, 1 First-Team All Pro selection

Smith was recognized as a better player as evidenced by the accolades in S.F. despite the statistics you arbitrarily decided negated someone else's opinion. Pro-Football Reference assigns Smith an AV (Approximate Value) of 50 for his time with the Bengals and 86 with the 49'ers.

The 3-4 defense in SF allowed Smith to capitalize on his power with the bull rush rather than having to rely on speed to get around OL and blockers.

[reuben.ahmed]

I could always trust Adam Pacman Jones back there.

[fredtoast]

(12-17-2021, 03:51 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Smith was recognized as a better player as evidenced by the accolades in S.F. despite the statistics you arbitrarily decided negated someone else's opinion. 

NFL scouts and front offices agreed that Smith was elite while playing with the Bengals.  That is why he got a top contract in free agency.

(12-17-2021, 03:51 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Pro-Football Reference assigns Smith an AV (Approximate Value) of 50 for his time with the Bengals and 86 with the 49'ers.

AV is an attempt to divide credit for good defense among the individual players.  Smith's score was so much higher with the Niners mainly because the Niners defense was so good while he was there.

Two defensive players can play exactly the same, but the one on the better defensive TEAM will have a higher AV.

[TecmoBengals]

Wow, I have my slow days where I post on here too much but a reply nearly 3 months later? That's dedication.

[fredtoast]

(03-03-2022, 10:07 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Wow, I have my slow days where I post on here too much but a reply nearly 3 months later? That's dedication.

I dug up this thread because of the thread about Simmons looking for a good punt return man.

I don't think a lot of fans realize how many big returns helped us win big games in playoff seasons.

Instead of cutting and pasting the OP in the Simmons thread I just replied to bump this one to the front page.

[TecmoBengals]

(03-04-2022, 12:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I dug up this thread because of the thread about Simmons looking for a good punt return man.

I don't think a lot of fans realize how many big returns helped us win big games in playoff seasons.

Instead of cutting and pasting the OP in the Simmons thread I just replied to bump this one to the front page.

Ah, makes sense.