Joey B vs Andy vibe

[*bfine32*]

OP would be much better served to share his thoughts on JB and leave AD out of the conversation.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

He's the first real QB the Bengals have had since Ken Anderson. Don't insult him and compare him to a fraud like Boomer Esiason. It's hilarious how Boomer is regarded as great and Dalton is shit on.

Both have pathetic post season numbers but the only three times Boomer's led any team to a winning season was when the Bengals were in the top 3 in rushing.

His "MVP" season.
Three 300 yard passing games
The 1988 Bengals had 10 games with over 150 yards rushing . . . seven of those games were over 200 yards

Boomer's Super Bowl Run
7-19 108 yards 2 sacks - - - Bengals 254 yards rushing
11-22 94 yards 1 TD 2 INT 3 sacks - - - Bengals 175 yards rushing
11-25 144 yards 1 INT 5 sacks - - - Bengals 108 yards rushing
29-66 346 yards 1 TD 3 INT 10 sacks for 58 yards so 288 total net passing yards in three playoff games
The Bengals did not win because of Boomer Esiason but people's memories tell them otherwise.

Palmer was just a great passer, he wasn't much of a leader. Dalton was more of a Brad Johnson/point guard distributor type and Jeff Blake had the great deep ball but couldn't hit a 15 yard pass when you needed it. Boomer won when he handed the ball off to a RB.

[Whacked]

(12-27-2021, 05:14 PM)jason Wrote: They even still around? I liked Dalton as much as anybody, and thought he took a bit too much shit, but he's been gone for like 800 days... I've let go.

Same and agreed.

Dude was soft-spoken, pure class and humble.

3 very unpopular things these days.

[Shake n Blake]

Burrow is elite, but I don't see why we have to trash one guy to prop up another. Burrow stands up fine on his own.

Dalton was a good QB saddled with a conservative coach who couldn't win in the playoffs. Kitna, Palmer and McCarron all played like trash in the playoffs under Marv as well. None had a passer rating better than 68, which is awful.

Dalton did some great things in Cincy. 5 playoff trips. Tons of comeback wins. Set franchise season records for yards, TDs and passer rating. Threw for over 30k yards and accounted for 226 TDs as a Bengal, and was a class act while doing so.

I feel like way too many people saddle all the blame for our playoff woes on him, but as the wise philosopher Billy Joel once said, Dalton "didn't start the fire".

But yeah...Burrow is our Aaron Rodgers.

[samhain]

People should really refrain from diminishing Andy's time here. Most teams would be more than happy to get the kind of production out of a second round qb that the Bengals got out of Dalton.

[TecmoBengals]

(12-27-2021, 07:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Burrow is elite, but I don't see why we have to trash one guy to prop up another. Burrow stands up fine on his own.

Dalton was a good QB saddled with a conservative coach who couldn't win in the playoffs. Kitna, Palmer and McCarron all played like trash in the playoffs under Marv as well. None had a passer rating better than 68, which is awful.

Dalton did some great things in Cincy. 5 playoff trips. Tons of comeback wins. Set franchise season records for yards, TDs and passer rating. Threw for over 30k yards and accounted for 226 TDs as a Bengal, and was a class act while doing so.

I feel like way too many people saddle all the blame for our playoff woes on him, but as the wise philosopher Billy Joel once said, Dalton "didn't start the fire".

But yeah...Burrow is our Aaron Rodgers.

Bengals have been lucky to have good QBs: Anderson, Boomer, Palmer, Dalton, and now Burrow. Mix in a pinch of Jeff Blake and Jon Kitna and I'd suggest we've been lucky. No need to bash any of the guys when talking about, as you've said, why one is good.

[*jason*]

(12-27-2021, 07:53 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Bengals have been lucky to have good QBs: Anderson, Boomer, Palmer, Dalton, and now Burrow. Mix in a pinch of Jeff Blake and Jon Kitna and I'd suggest we've been lucky. No need to bash any of the guys when talking about, as you've said, why one is good.

The list of WRs that have passed through Cincinnati is sick too.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-27-2021, 07:53 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Bengals have been lucky to have good QBs: Anderson, Boomer, Palmer, Dalton, and now Burrow. Mix in a pinch of Jeff Blake and Jon Kitna and I'd suggest we've been lucky. No need to bash any of the guys when talking about, as you've said, why one is good.

Not Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers level of fortunate, but fortunate nonetheless.

Most teams would swap QB lists with us.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-27-2021, 08:03 PM)jason Wrote: The list of WRs that have passed through Cincinnati is sick too.

I’d say it’s probably our strongest position group throughout the years.

[CJD]

Andy Dalton is the perfect encapsulation of why you shouldn't stop when you find a "good enough" QB.

If I were the Bengals head coach or general manager, I'd cherish having a solid QB like Dalton, but I'd keep chasing that elite QB prospect. Dalton was not good enough to have never been given any competition for the starting QB position for nearly a decade.

Dalton was a good QB. Given the right receivers and line, he can win you a lot of games but he was never a franchise QB and we shouldn't have treated him like one.

But stating this is apparently considered bashing Dalton, so *shrug*.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-27-2021, 04:32 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Ok, so I have to say I have not felt this way since the Boomer Esiason Era but it definitely is a diff vibe with Burrow vs when Andy D was at the helm and making playoff runs. Im getting that Boomer Esiason era feeling and it feels good knowing we now have a true leader and great player at the helm now. Not saying Dalton was a bad leader,  but he did not have the IT factor we all talk about with JB.
This of course could all get tossed in the gutter after the KC game but for now... YEA thats a great place to be in my mind!

I am sure you took a lot of flack for this thread. Burrow is definitely a different type of QB though.

You would have to be blind not to see it.

[fredtoast]

(12-27-2021, 06:47 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: 4th quarter comebacks aren’t always what they seem. You have to be down to have a 4th quarter comeback. Andy’s first season they won 9 games and he needed 4 comebacks to get there. Burrow got to 9 wins and only needed one.

This is the silliest argument I ever heard.

We would have more than 9 wins if Burrow could lead fourth quarter comebacks like Dalton.  

You might have a point if Burrow had won more than Dalton, but he hasn't.

[TecmoBengals]

(12-27-2021, 09:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is the silliest argument I ever heard.

We would have more than 9 wins if Burrow could lead fourth quarter comebacks like Dalton.  

You might have a point if Burrow had won more than Dalton, but he hasn't.

The silliest of all arguments for the forum's entire history? 

I think Ruben's post made sense. Burrow puts up the points and isn't going to need 4th quarter come backs to win. Burrow hasn't won more than Dalton, he hasn't even played two full seasons yet. So of course Dalton has won more, such a silly way to try and make a point.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-27-2021, 09:52 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: The silliest of all arguments for the forum's entire history? 

I think Ruben's post made sense. Burrow puts up the points and isn't going to need 4th quarter come backs to win. Burrow hasn't won more than Dalton, he hasn't even played two full seasons yet. So of course Dalton has won more, such a silly way to try and make a point.

Yes, Fred's argument is silly.

[C0de_M0nkey]

Dalton was a good QB who couldn’t get his team over the hump. I like him more than Palmer, but by 2014 it was clear that he just wasn’t capable of getting a clutch win in the playoffs. With Dalton no matter how good the team around him was, it still felt like we just weren’t good enough. It was always everyone’s fault but Andy’s in the playoffs.

Burrow is just built different. There’s no doubt that he will win multiple playoff games. He’s more talented than Andy Dalton, but even if they were equal Burrow still has the aforementioned “it” factor that Dalton lacked. Andy had his moments but I was never as excited about him as I was about Palmer in 2005. Burrow is one W away from exceeding that benchmark

[Big_Ern]

(12-27-2021, 09:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is the silliest argument I ever heard.

We would have more than 9 wins if Burrow could lead fourth quarter comebacks like Dalton.  

You might have a point if Burrow had won more than Dalton, but he hasn't.

If Burrow wins a playoff game this year, or any year, will you can it with this? 

[Rubekahn29]

(12-27-2021, 09:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is the silliest argument I ever heard.

We would have more than 9 wins if Burrow could lead fourth quarter comebacks like Dalton.  

You might have a point if Burrow had won more than Dalton, but he hasn't.

You’re just showing blind ignorance to my point. He is one win away from having the same amount of wins as Andy had his 2nd year, and has already put up more 40 point games than Andy did. Andy didn’t have a 40 point game until year 3. Burrow has had 3 before year 3.

If he has 10 wins by the end of the year, he would have done so by being down less than Andy was his 2nd year.

Like I said, 4th quarter comebacks are not always a good thing. There is a reason the GOAT, still doesn’t lead the history books in 4th quarter comebacks even though he has played 4 seasons more and many more playoff games more than number 1. His team takes the lead and stays on it, which is what Burrow has done in many of their wins this year.

[Hammerstripes]

(12-27-2021, 06:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Guys like Kalibengal starting this thread obviously can't let it go.

But I will add this.  Over his first two seasons Burrow has one 4th quarter comeback win and two 4th quarter game winning drives.  Over Dalton's first two seasons he had 4 each.

Fans make up stuff in their head and see what they want to see.  So far Burrow has not done anything that would support the claim that he is a "great leader".  Not saying there is anything wrong with Burrow's leadership ability.  Just saying all these people claiming he is a "great leader" just feel that way with nothing really to support it.

Well, you can't put "numbers" on leadership can you?  As far as 4th Quarter comebacks, those are overstated.

I look at the 2 minute offense.  Pretty much every time we've gotten the ball with 2 minutes or less, points.  I just know that we are going to score at the end of the half.

If you can't see and feel the difference with this team with Burrow than with Dalton, then I don't know what to tell you, to me it's obvious.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-27-2021, 10:06 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Well, you can't put "numbers" on leadership can you?  As far as 4th Quarter comebacks, those are overstated.

I look at the 2 minute offense.  Pretty much every time we've gotten the ball with 2 minutes or less, points.  I just know that we are going to score at the end of the half.

If you can't see and feel the difference with this team with Burrow than with Dalton, then I don't know what to tell you, to me it's obvious.

I think it is obvious to about everybody besides Fred there Hammerstripes...

[Rubekahn29]

(12-27-2021, 10:06 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Well, you can't put "numbers" on leadership can you?  As far as 4th Quarter comebacks, those are overstated.

I look at the 2 minute offense.  Pretty much every time we've gotten the ball with 2 minutes or less, points.  I just know that we are going to score at the end of the half.

If you can't see and feel the difference with this team with Burrow than with Dalton, then I don't know what to tell you, to me it's obvious.

No one without an agenda can objectively look at Burrow and Andy and think Andy was the better QB or better leader. Time will tell what happens, but Andy took over a team 1 year removed from the playoffs. Burrow took over a team 4 years removed from the playoffs going through monumental shifts (for better or for worse). There is also a reason Andy has not consistently stayed a starter since leaving Cincy. Love AD, but facts are facts.