Crosby and Ngakoue context

[wcu]

Every single article or message board I've read regarding our Raiders game talks about how the Bengals O-line is a liability (they are) and how Ngokoue and Crosby (specifically) are going to feast and that's how the Raiders are going to be able to beat they Bengals (certainly a possibility). Yes, I realize that Crosby lead the league in pressure rate from the DE position (sounds like Carl Lawson), but let's not act like he is the end all and be all of NFL pass rushers.

This year we have faced:

Danielle Hunter
Robert Quinn
Khalil Mack
Josh Allen
Preston Smith
Rashan Gary
Myles Garrett (twice)
Jadaveon Clowney (twice)
Maxx Crosby
Yanick Ngokoue
TJ Watt
Cam Heyward (twice)
Joey Bosa
Nick Bosa

There's no doubt that some of these guys got home against the Bengals, but were any of them so debilitatingly effective that they just wrecked our whole game and prevented us from competing? It's an honest question, I really don't remember that happening though. Crosby is good, but he's not on the same level as the Bosa Brothers (0 and 2 sacks against us) or TJ Watt (0 sacks against us) or Myles Garrett (2.5 in 2 games) or Robert Quinn (2 sacks against us).

I'm just already getting sick about hearing about that pass rush. We've faced and survived (and even thrived against) much worse. I may eat a huge plate of multiple crows, but I have faith that we'll have a good enough game plan to keep Ngokoue and Crosby (who by the way combined for 1 sack last time) from taking over. I almost get the sense that they're the one shred of hope the Raiders have and so the media has to talk about it to make it interesting.

I'm not saying the Raiders don't have a chance. Of course they do. They're obviously a good team, but I just don't buy that stopping Maxx Crosby is some insurmountable task compared with other guys we've faced.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Those two can be stopped just like Trey Hendrickson can be stopped. "Can" is kind of a meaningless word though. It is technically possible for Cedric Ogbuehi to hold prime Bruce Smith without a pressure for an entire game. He "can" do that. He probably won't.

That isn't to say that I expect Crosby and Ngakoue to just murder the Bengals offensive line the whole game. However, the primary advantage of the Raiders pass rush is that it can be effective without needing any help from the blitz. And, as it happens, that is something that Joe Burrow hasn't quite mastered yet in his young career -- teams that can get pressure with the front four and drop the rest into coverage have given him some trouble. I am confident in his ability to adapt, especially in a second game against a specific opponent, but he has to go out and prove it. And the line has to give him a puncher's chance. They have to prove it.

[QueenCity]

Get an early lead and it will minimize their pass rush. Crosby was teeing off on Herbert cause they had to pass it 20 times in a row late in the game.

I absolutely believe Bengals need to have a rare fast start. Anything that goes sideways the fans energy will turn to panic.

[*jason*]

(01-13-2022, 11:31 AM)wcu Wrote: Every single article or message board I've read regarding our Raiders game talks about how the Bengals O-line is a liability (they are) and how Ngokoue and Crosby (specifically) are going to feast and that's how the Raiders are going to be able to beat they Bengals (certainly a possibility). Yes, I realize that Crosby lead the league in pressure rate from the DE position (sounds like Carl Lawson), but let's not act like he is the end all and be all of NFL pass rushers.

This year we have faced:

Danielle Hunter
Robert Quinn
Khalil Mack
Josh Allen
Preston Smith
Rashan Gary
Myles Garrett (twice)
Jadaveon Clowney (twice)
Maxx Crosby
Yanick Ngokoue
TJ Watt
Cam Heyward (twice)
Joey Bosa
Nick Bosa

There's no doubt that some of these guys got home against the Bengals, but were any of them so debilitatingly effective that they just wrecked our whole game and prevented us from competing? It's an honest question, I really don't remember that happening though. Crosby is good, but he's not on the same level as the Bosa Brothers (0 and 2 sacks against us) or TJ Watt (0 sacks against us) or Myles Garrett (2.5 in 2 games) or Robert Quinn (2 sacks against us).

I'm just already getting sick about hearing about that pass rush. We've faced and survived (and even thrived against) much worse. I may eat a huge plate of multiple crows, but I have faith that we'll have a good enough game plan to keep Ngokoue and Crosby (who by the way combined for 1 sack last time) from taking over. I almost get the sense that they're the one shred of hope the Raiders have and so the media has to talk about it to make it interesting.

I'm not saying the Raiders don't have a chance. Of course they do. They're obviously a good team, but I just don't buy that stopping Maxx Crosby is some insurmountable task compared with other guys we've faced.

Chris Jones was wrecking shop from the interior.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We also should acknowledge that when the Bengals survived most of these great pass rushing edge players, they did so with Riley Reiff on the field. As it happens Reiff had his worst game [arguably] in Vegas against Crosby, so perhaps the game-to-game dropoff won't be as horrible as it might look with Prince/Johnson. I hope.

[WeezyBengal]

(01-13-2022, 11:37 AM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: Those two can be stopped just like Trey Hendrickson can be stopped. "Can" is kind of a meaningless word though. It is technically possible for Cedric Ogbuehi to hold prime Bruce Smith without a pressure for an entire game. He "can" do that. He probably won't.

That isn't to say that I expect Crosby and Ngakoue to just murder the Bengals offensive line the whole game. However, the primary advantage of the Raiders pass rush is that it can be effective without needing any help from the blitz. And, as it happens, that is something that Joe Burrow hasn't quite mastered yet in his young career -- teams that can get pressure with the front four and drop the rest into coverage have given him some trouble. I am confident in his ability to adapt, especially in a second game against a specific opponent, but he has to go out and prove it. And the line has to give him a puncher's chance. They have to prove it.

This is everything. If you get pressure without blitzing, they can basically play their safeties deep and take away the opportunity for big plays (what our offense thrives on). This is what the Raiders did against us in the first game. 

This is why having success with the run is everything in this game. This will be a classic run opens up the pass game type of game. 

[kalibengal]

(01-13-2022, 11:31 AM)wcu Wrote: Every single article or message board I've read regarding our Raiders game talks about how the Bengals O-line is a liability (they are) and how Ngokoue and Crosby (specifically) are going to feast and that's how the Raiders are going to be able to beat they Bengals (certainly a possibility).  Yes, I realize that Crosby lead the league in pressure rate from the DE position (sounds like Carl Lawson), but let's not act like he is the end all and be all of NFL pass rushers.

This year we have faced:

Danielle Hunter
Robert Quinn
Khalil Mack
Josh Allen
Preston Smith
Rashan Gary
Myles Garrett (twice)
Jadaveon Clowney (twice)
Maxx Crosby
Yanick Ngokoue
TJ Watt
Cam Heyward (twice)
Joey Bosa
Nick Bosa

There's no doubt that some of these guys got home against the Bengals, but were any of them so debilitatingly effective that they just wrecked our whole game and prevented us from competing?  It's an honest question, I really don't remember that happening though.  Crosby is good, but he's not on the same level as the Bosa Brothers (0 and 2 sacks against us) or TJ Watt (0 sacks against us) or Myles Garrett (2.5 in 2 games) or Robert Quinn (2 sacks against us).

I'm just already getting sick about hearing about that pass rush.  We've faced and survived (and even thrived against) much worse.  I may eat a huge plate of multiple crows, but I have faith that we'll have a good enough game plan to keep Ngokoue and Crosby (who by the way combined for 1 sack last time) from taking over.  I almost get the sense that they're the one shred of hope the Raiders have and so the media has to talk about it to make it interesting.

I'm not saying the Raiders don't have a chance.  Of course they do.  They're obviously a good team, but I just don't buy that stopping Maxx Crosby is some insurmountable task compared with other guys we've faced.

Chris Jones too....but he kicked our O Line ass that day too
Prince VS Crosby doesnt give me a lot of comfort but its up to coaches to design the scheme that works given our liabilities.
31 f'ing yrs man.....no excuses...its a must win 
   

[attyla]

I like our chances vs your line.

[fredtoast]

Crosby had 42 pressures this year with only ONE coming against the Bengals. He had zero sacks, zero hurries, and zero tipped passes against us.

[WeezyBengal]

(01-13-2022, 11:31 AM)wcu Wrote: Every single article or message board I've read regarding our Raiders game talks about how the Bengals O-line is a liability (they are) and how Ngokoue and Crosby (specifically) are going to feast and that's how the Raiders are going to be able to beat they Bengals (certainly a possibility).  Yes, I realize that Crosby lead the league in pressure rate from the DE position (sounds like Carl Lawson), but let's not act like he is the end all and be all of NFL pass rushers.

This year we have faced:

Danielle Hunter
Robert Quinn
Khalil Mack
Josh Allen
Preston Smith
Rashan Gary
Myles Garrett (twice)
Jadaveon Clowney (twice)
Maxx Crosby
Yanick Ngokoue
TJ Watt
Cam Heyward (twice)
Joey Bosa
Nick Bosa

There's no doubt that some of these guys got home against the Bengals, but were any of them so debilitatingly effective that they just wrecked our whole game and prevented us from competing?  It's an honest question, I really don't remember that happening though.  Crosby is good, but he's not on the same level as the Bosa Brothers (0 and 2 sacks against us) or TJ Watt (0 sacks against us) or Myles Garrett (2.5 in 2 games) or Robert Quinn (2 sacks against us).

I'm just already getting sick about hearing about that pass rush.  We've faced and survived (and even thrived against) much worse.  I may eat a huge plate of multiple crows, but I have faith that we'll have a good enough game plan to keep Ngokoue and Crosby (who by the way combined for 1 sack last time) from taking over.  I almost get the sense that they're the one shred of hope the Raiders have and so the media has to talk about it to make it interesting.

I'm not saying the Raiders don't have a chance.  Of course they do.  They're obviously a good team, but I just don't buy that stopping Maxx Crosby is some insurmountable task compared with other guys we've faced.

It's hard to deny that this offense hasn't played quit the same against really good pass rushes this year. The PASSING offense didn't look GREAT against the Browns (first game where Burrow actually played), the Vikings, the Bears, the Raiders, the Chargers, or the Broncos. 

This offense has absolutely been effected by good pass rushes this year. Whether it has had a direct impact on it or they've had to game plan around the opponents pass rush, it's made an impact. I think its kind of weird to sit here and say it won't be a factor on Saturday. Everyone in that locker room knows it will be and has openly said it. 

[WeezyBengal]

(01-13-2022, 12:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Crosby had 42 pressures this year with only ONE coming against the Bengals. He had zero sacks, zero hurries, and zero tipped passes against us.

He caused a fumble on the 20 yard line like the very first play of the game. Not sure if he got credited for a "sack" that play but it was 100% because of him.

Watch some of the film from this article, there are at least 3 videos where Crosby has pressures and 1 QB hit.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/film-breakdown-how-bengals-can-slow-down-maxx-crosby?utm_source=reddit.com
 
I'm not really sure what you are getting at... are you really trying to make the case that an all-pro edge rusher like Crosby isn't a concern against a sub par backup OL Isiah Prince?

[*Go Cards*]

(01-13-2022, 11:31 AM)wcu Wrote: Every single article or message board I've read regarding our Raiders game talks about how the Bengals O-line is a liability (they are) and how Ngokoue and Crosby (specifically) are going to feast and that's how the Raiders are going to be able to beat they Bengals (certainly a possibility).  Yes, I realize that Crosby lead the league in pressure rate from the DE position (sounds like Carl Lawson), but let's not act like he is the end all and be all of NFL pass rushers.

This year we have faced:

Danielle Hunter
Robert Quinn
Khalil Mack
Josh Allen
Preston Smith
Rashan Gary
Myles Garrett (twice)
Jadaveon Clowney (twice)
Maxx Crosby
Yanick Ngokoue
TJ Watt
Cam Heyward (twice)
Joey Bosa
Nick Bosa

There's no doubt that some of these guys got home against the Bengals, but were any of them so debilitatingly effective that they just wrecked our whole game and prevented us from competing?  It's an honest question, I really don't remember that happening though.  Crosby is good, but he's not on the same level as the Bosa Brothers (0 and 2 sacks against us) or TJ Watt (0 sacks against us) or Myles Garrett (2.5 in 2 games) or Robert Quinn (2 sacks against us).

I'm just already getting sick about hearing about that pass rush.  We've faced and survived (and even thrived against) much worse.  I may eat a huge plate of multiple crows, but I have faith that we'll have a good enough game plan to keep Ngokoue and Crosby (who by the way combined for 1 sack last time) from taking over.  I almost get the sense that they're the one shred of hope the Raiders have and so the media has to talk about it to make it interesting.

I'm not saying the Raiders don't have a chance.  Of course they do.  They're obviously a good team, but I just don't buy that stopping Maxx Crosby is some insurmountable task compared with other guys we've faced.

played that cat twice as well

[attyla]

(01-13-2022, 12:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Crosby had 42 pressures this year with only ONE coming against the Bengals. He had zero sacks, zero hurries, and zero tipped passes against us.

past performance does not ensure future results.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We would do well to avoid pooh-poohing the defense that held Burrow in check as well as any other this season.

[WeezyBengal]

(01-13-2022, 12:11 PM)attyla Wrote: past performance does not ensure future results.

*past performance against a better, completely different offensive lineman doesn't ensure future results. 

Fixed it for you. 

[wcu]

(01-13-2022, 12:07 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It's hard to deny that this offense hasn't played quit the same against really good pass rushes this year. The PASSING offense didn't look GREAT against the Browns (first game where Burrow actually played), the Vikings, the Bears, the Raiders, the Chargers, or the Broncos. 

This offense has absolutely been effected by good pass rushes this year. Whether it has had a direct impact on it or they've had to game plan around the opponents pass rush, it's made an impact. I think its kind of weird to sit here and say it won't be a factor on Saturday. Everyone in that locker room knows it will be and has openly said it. 

Nowhere did I say it won't be a factor. In fact, I said they're very good and could possibly be the reason they win. What I said is that we've faced and survived worse (and the Raiders specifically). 

Had Maxx Crosby not just dominated that high profile game against the Chargers that everyone in America just watched, we wouldn't be talking about him. 

[kalibengal]

(01-13-2022, 12:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Crosby had 42 pressures this year with only ONE coming against the Bengals. He had zero sacks, zero hurries, and zero tipped passes against us.

was he playing Reif or Prince that day?

[Frank Booth]

(01-13-2022, 12:14 PM)wcu Wrote: Had Maxx Crosby not just dominates that high profile game against the Chargers that everyone in America just watched, we wouldn't be talking about him. 

we would, because he was still one of the best defensve ends in the league this year, and he dominated the line of scrimmage when the bengals played them in week 11

[Earendil]

(01-13-2022, 12:11 PM)Go Cards Wrote: played that cat twice as well

IIRC, TJ Watt missed the first game with an injury.

[WeezyBengal]

(01-13-2022, 12:14 PM)wcu Wrote: Nowhere did I say it won't be a factor. In fact, I said they're very good and could possibly be the reason they win. What I said is that we've faced and survived worse (and the Raiders specifically). 

Had Maxx Crosby not just dominated that high profile game against the Chargers that everyone in America just watched, we wouldn't be talking about him. 

He's been good all season and had an impact on the game the first time we played the Raiders. He's an all pro caliber edge rusher. He would be a gigantic matchup concern with or without that performance against the Chargers.