NFL.com - Bengals biggest offseason needs

[*ochocincos*]

(01-12-2022, 06:12 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: well doing something in Free Agency would mean its a NEED correct? lol           


We definitely need more at OL, LB, DB (S, CB)  and also..... a new Kick Return Specialist.

Absolutely.
Needs are for everything in the offseason.

And I think the Bengals can (easily?) address all their starter needs in FA and then draft purely BPA if they really wanted.

[007BengalsFan]

The Bengals have a glaring weakness and that is offensive line.  As great as the skill position players are, if the O-line doesnt improve, good defenses can keep hitting Burrow and the offense will be shut down.  ESPN analytics has the Bengals in a virtual tie with the Steelers as second worst O-line in pass protection.  The Bengals cant think they fixed the issue by drafting a project player like Carman while the O-line still struggles with him.  You havent fixed the problem if you still have the same issues with your new draft picks.  The #1 need is still O-line.


ESPN analytics

Team Pass Block Win Rate

1. Los Angeles Rams, 68%
2. Kansas City Chiefs, 68%
3. Philadelphia Eagles, 67%
4. Cleveland Browns, 67%
5. Green Bay Packers, 66%
6. Chicago Bears, 66%
7. New Orleans Saints, 66%
8. Buffalo Bills, 64%
9. Washington Football Team, 63%
10. Baltimore Ravens, 62%
11. New England Patriots, 62%
12. Arizona Cardinals, 61%
13. Los Angeles Chargers, 61%
14. San Francisco 49ers, 61%
15. Seattle Seahawks, 61%
16. Denver Broncos, 61%
17. New York Jets, 61%
18. Jacksonville Jaguars, 60%
19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 60%
20. Indianapolis Colts, 60%
21. Las Vegas Raiders, 59%
22. Detroit Lions, 58%
23. Dallas Cowboys, 58%
24. Tennessee Titans, 56%
25. Minnesota Vikings, 54%
26. Atlanta Falcons, 54%
27. Houston Texans, 54%
28. New York Giants, 54%
29. Carolina Panthers, 50%
30. Cincinnati Bengals, 49%
31. Pittsburgh Steelers, 49%
32. Miami Dolphins, 47%

[*Synric*]

(01-12-2022, 08:48 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: The Bengals have a glaring weakness and that is offensive line.  As great as the skill position players are, if the O-line doesnt improve, good defenses can keep hitting Burrow and the offense will be shut down.  ESPN analytics has the Bengals in a virtual tie with the Steelers as second worst O-line in pass protection.  The Bengals cant think they fixed the issue by drafting a project player like Carman while the O-line still struggles with him.  You havent fixed the problem if you still have the same issues with your new draft picks.  The #1 need is still O-line.


ESPN analytics

Team Pass Block Win Rate

1. Los Angeles Rams, 68%
2. Kansas City Chiefs, 68%
3. Philadelphia Eagles, 67%
4. Cleveland Browns, 67%
5. Green Bay Packers, 66%
6. Chicago Bears, 66%
7. New Orleans Saints, 66%
8. Buffalo Bills, 64%
9. Washington Football Team, 63%
10. Baltimore Ravens, 62%
11. New England Patriots, 62%
12. Arizona Cardinals, 61%
13. Los Angeles Chargers, 61%
14. San Francisco 49ers, 61%
15. Seattle Seahawks, 61%
16. Denver Broncos, 61%
17. New York Jets, 61%
18. Jacksonville Jaguars, 60%
19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 60%
20. Indianapolis Colts, 60%
21. Las Vegas Raiders, 59%
22. Detroit Lions, 58%
23. Dallas Cowboys, 58%
24. Tennessee Titans, 56%
25. Minnesota Vikings, 54%
26. Atlanta Falcons, 54%
27. Houston Texans, 54%
28. New York Giants, 54%
29. Carolina Panthers, 50%
30. Cincinnati Bengals, 49%
31. Pittsburgh Steelers, 49%
32. Miami Dolphins, 47%

Jackson Carman has actually been really good in pass protection as a rookie. He has allowed 13 total pressures and 0 sacks in 462 snaps. Really his only bad game in pass pro was vs the Packers which he gave up 6 Pressures almost half his total in that one game alone.

[007BengalsFan]

(01-12-2022, 09:44 PM)Synric Wrote: Jackson Carman has actually been really good in pass protection as a rookie. He has allowed 13 total pressures and 0 sacks in 462 snaps. Really his only bad game in pass pro was vs the Packers which he gave up 6 Pressures almost half his total in that one game alone.

His overall PFF grade is 56.3 which is not good.  Instead of taking a project like Carman the Bengals could have taken Creed Humphrey and completely elimated the worry about the center position for years to come.  You add Humphrey to a line with Williams and Rieff, that would have been a very good foundation for the o-line this year.  Anyway, too late for that now.  Still, I think it goes to show the Bengals need to make better decisions on these picks.  The line should not be as bad as it is.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-12-2022, 11:33 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: His overall PFF grade is 56.3 which is not good.  Instead of taking a project like Carman the Bengals could have taken Creed Humphrey and completely elimated the worry about the center position for years to come.  You add Humphrey to a line with Williams and Rieff, that would have been a very good foundation for the o-line this year.  Anyway, too late for that now.  Still, I think it goes to show the Bengals need to make better decisions on these picks.  The line should not be as bad as it is.

1. Not a project.
2. Improved significantly as the year went on.
3. PFF grades mean dick, for the most part. Look at pass block win rate. Look at the pressure numbers. Look at the trends, run blocking in his lane, etc.

All of that is SIGNIFICANTLY more-important than a subjective grade.

Come on, man, if you're a Bond fan, I don't want to argue with you lol; I want to discuss the books and films with someone!

[*Synric*]

(01-12-2022, 11:33 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: His overall PFF grade is 56.3 which is not good.  Instead of taking a project like Carman the Bengals could have taken Creed Humphrey and completely elimated the worry about the center position for years to come.  You add Humphrey to a line with Williams and Rieff, that would have been a very good foundation for the o-line this year.  Anyway, too late for that now.  Still, I think it goes to show the Bengals need to make better decisions on these picks.  The line should not be as bad as it is.

Humphrey wouldn't have been as good in Cincinnati as he is in Kansas City. The Chiefs run a very similar scheme to what he was used to at Oklahoma and Cincy was looking at a RG not C so he would have switched positions.

People are hard on Carman but if you watch the tape you can see why they drafted him to play guard in their scheme even if he wasn't a superstar as a rookie.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-13-2022, 01:01 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 1. Not a project.
2. Improved significantly as the year went on.
3. PFF grades mean dick, for the most part. Look at pass block win rate. Look at the pressure numbers. Look at the trends, run blocking in his lane, etc.

All of that is SIGNIFICANTLY more-important than a subjective grade.

Come on, man, if you're a Bond fan, I don't want to argue with you lol; I want to discuss the books and films with someone!

I think a lot of people wanted/expected that a Bengals OL picked in Rd 1 or Rd 2 would be able to come in and be solid-or-better much faster. Ideally immediately.

While I was a fan of the Carman selection due to his size and skill set, I knew the transition from LT to RG would take some time. It's more complicated than just switching from LT to RT. I believe he also wasn't used to the blocking scheme that Pollack runs, so that has a learning curve too.

As you said, he's improved as the year went on. He shows some things that Adeniji just will not have.
If the Bengals re-sign Spain, I see an open competition next offseason between Adeniji, Carman, and maybe even Smith (and a new rookie?) for RG.
If Spain doesn't re-sign, I could see the Bengals liking their young OGs enough to start two of them at the OG positions.

A darkhorse idea is getting an upgrade at C and moving Hopkins back to OG.
While he wasn't great as a run blocker in Lazor's scheme, he was rather good as a pass blocker.
I always thought his best position coming out of college was LG.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-13-2022, 11:16 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I think a lot of people wanted/expected that a Bengals OL picked in Rd 1 or Rd 2 would be able to come in and be solid-or-better much faster. Ideally immediately.

While I was a fan of the Carman selection due to his size and skill set, I knew the transition from LT to RG would take some time. It's more complicated than just switching from LT to RT. I believe he also wasn't used to the blocking scheme that Pollack runs, so that has a learning curve too.

As you said, he's improved as the year went on. He shows some things that Adeniji just will not have.
If the Bengals re-sign Spain, I see an open competition next offseason between Adeniji, Carman, and maybe even Smith (and a new rookie?) for RG.
If Spain doesn't re-sign, I could see the Bengals liking their young OGs enough to start two of them at the OG positions.

A darkhorse idea is getting an upgrade at C and moving Hopkins back to OG.
While he wasn't great as a run blocker in Lazor's scheme, he was rather good as a pass blocker.
I always thought his best position coming out of college was LG.

And that totally makes sense, especially as he was drafted in the 2nd round.

But people automatically assume that, "changing positions = project." No, there will be an adjustment period of course (as you stated), but a project is someone that played OUT of position in college or whose body needed to be modified to switch positions (IE: a WR being converted to TE, a QB being converted to TE, a TE converting to OL, etc.).

Whether Spain is resigned or not, I see Carman playing RG regardless, as he will have a proper offseason and (hopefully) will not need any surgeries.

Fingers crossed that all goes well.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-11-2022, 03:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: According to https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-order-2021-nfl-regular-season, the Bengals' needs to address via FA/draft this offseason are:
S
OL
LB

I definitely agree with safety if they don't re-sign Bates. If they don't, safety is a position I'd expect them to address within the first two days of the draft, as I doubt they'll pay good money for another veteran safety.

OL is obviously a "duh." They have one big impending FA in Spain to worry about, plus Reiff is likely going to opt out of his contract. That potentially puts a big need at two OL positions. Even if Reiff re-signs, he hasn't played a full season in years and is 33 years old, so the Bengals need a long-term guy to take over (eventually). Add in the fact that Hopkins hasn't been great this year (although better since the bye) and RG being overall mediocre-at-best between Adeniji and Carman, and there's clearly room to add some better OL.

LB is one that kind of surprised me at first, but upon thinking about it, it probably makes sense.
Pratt is set to hit FA after next season, and frankly he isn't where we need him to be anyway.
Maybe Markus Bailey takes over that spot at some point, but trying to upgrade LB in either the draft or FA definitely seems logical.

Do you agree with these being the biggest needs? If not, what position(s) would you put instead?

DT/NT would be way higher on my list. Ogunjobi, Hill, and Tupou are all FAs and Shelvin looks terrible. Maybe Daniels has another year left in him. Reader us awesome vs the run. But we need some interior pass rush. Not a great draft for DTs either this year. 

[Interceptor]

A place to put the Lombardi.

[Whatever]

(01-12-2022, 12:37 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: There have been a fair number of major misses among Linebackers taken in the first round over the last few years. It's making me wonder if it's one of those situations where college linebackers and NFL linebackers have fundamentally different roles in defenses and it makes them really hard to predict success in the NFL. Maybe a "spread QB" type situation where being productive in college doesn't indicate success in the NFL?

Look at the last few drafts:
2021:
Zaven Collins - Obviously, it's very early and he may end up developing, but Collins has been a back up role player so far for Arizona, playing only 20.22% of defensive snaps, and has basically only played special teams since week 9, per this report.
Jamin Davis - Davis was thought to add strength to an already elite defense but, somehow, the WFT defense got worse despite adding a first round LB. His PFF grade of 43.3 is not great, nor is the fact that he was not played late into the season, even in run/TE heavy offenses like the Eagles, per this report.

2020:
Isaiah Simmons - poor PFF grade and not nearly the impact you'd expect from a top 10 pick. I haven't found similar reports of struggles like I did with Collins and Davis, but I did find a fan discussion about him in December 2021, where they seem pretty disappointed with his output.
Kenneth Murray - Another poor PFF grade and an article from a Chargers News website that says the following: "The most inexcusable thing Staley did in this game was play Kenneth Murray as much as he did. Murray was used as the team's dime linebacker and he was exposed time and time again... as he has been all season. Who knows what the logic behind that is."
Patrick Queen - Named the most disappointing player halfway through the 2021 season, per this article. Maybe he recovered and had a better second half of the season, but his PFF grade has been poor as well.


2019: 
Devin Bush - All you have to do is mention the name to a Steelers fan and they go full Yinzer-cursing mode. He has not had a good career thus far.


It may also just be a case where LBers need a few years to adapt to the NFL. In either case, I think we should avoid LB in the draft. If we want to pursue a guy like Miller in FA, I'd be open to it but even he seems more like a 3-4 LB than a 4-3 LB. I wonder if we'd be able to use him properly.

I personally feel like it's a failing in scouting.  Teams are obsessed with getting the 3 down LB that covers RB's and TE's like a S.  They get so locked in on measurables that project to that cover LB that a ton of issues on film get overlooked.  I remember being the bad guy the year Patrick Queen came out and talking about how terrible his tape was.  But teams want that guy that can match up with a Kelce, so they draft traits based prospects early and hope the can mold them into something.

[Hammerstripes]

As the roster sits right now (also assuming we re-sign everyone), my list looks like this:

1. RG/RT. I'm not sure what their plans are for Carman, but if they plan on kicking him out to RT (they alluded to his when he was drafted), then I think getting a stud prospect or veteran (i'd prefer vet) to play RG.

2. DT. We really need an interior pass rusher. Larry did well this year, but I don't know if he's enough. There's a real lack of a stud like Geno.

3. Edge. Some of this depends on Ossai. Is he as good as his one preseason showing against Tampa? Do you roll the dice that he is? I like Hubbard, but we need another guy on 3rd downs.

As it sits now, I like our CBs and LBs. If we had the chance at a top 2 CB in the draft, I wouldn't pass. I wouldn't be afraid to pick up a guy like Devin Lloyd if he falls.

[Hammerstripes]

Although I will be quick to say that I like the approach that the Bengals have taken with the LBs. They essentially draft for subpackages and grab guys in the middle rounds.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-11-2022, 11:07 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I don't see LB as a big need for this team.

No, but if Dean or Lloyd are still on the board when we pick, we'd snap them up for sure. 

[Mobster]

#1 O-Line is the top need obviously. We won a playoff game starting 3 undrafted free agents, and a second year 6th round pick who came off injured reserve mid year and started a few days later. C, G, OT, doesn't matter. Just need some blu chip talent that can be building blocks. I actually like the depth on the line, just need too end talent.

#2 pass rushers - interior and edge. Need a speed edge guy opposite Hendrickson. I'm assuming we bring back Ogunjobi and maybe Hill, but we can use some help there either way.

After that, I think we're solid everywhere else. I say just add as many playmakers as you can to defense. I'm assuming Bates will be back. I think Apple will want to be back now that he's found some success here. Can never have too many corners.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-19-2022, 01:26 AM)Mobster Wrote: #1 O-Line is the top need obviously. We won a playoff game starting  3 undrafted free agents, and a second year 6th round pick who came off injured reserve mid year and started a few days later. C, G, OT, doesn't matter. Just need some blu chip talent that can be building blocks. I actually like the depth on the line, just need too end talent.

#2 pass rushers - interior and edge. Need a speed edge guy opposite Hendrickson. I'm assuming we bring back Ogunjobi and maybe Hill, but we can use some help there either way.

After that, I think we're solid everywhere else. I say just add as many playmakers as you can to defense. I'm assuming Bates will be back. I think Apple will want to be back now that he's found some success here. Can never have too many corners.

It will be interesting to see what they think of Ossai, because he very well could be that guy.  Even if he is, I still draft another one somewhere.

I think in the first round you take the BPA (outside of QB, RB, WR)