Joe Burrow's last four games

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-28-2022, 12:16 PM)GAWhoDey Wrote: You have a different definition of game manager than most, I believe. 

And you're kind of contradicting yourself here.  If he's a great game manager, he wouldn't have taken us out of field goal range three times.  Great game managers don't make those kinds of mistakes because they can't make the plays required to make up for them.  

Yep.

Anyway…



Btw nobody is “taking away credit from the defense.” This thread just happens to be about Burrow. He threw multiple TD’s in the game where he wasn’t sacked 11 times. And put up 348 yards while completely under siege in the other one. Not even the greats like Brady or Mahomes do that. Most QB’s get rattled when they’re being hit that much.

[jj22]

I'm happy to just respectfully disagree with you guys. Looking back I think it'll be lazy to credit Burrow for this run. Easy to do given he is the key change to our fortunes. But the eagle eye, I believe will see this was the Defense playing championship ball and getting us this far (just counting the playoff's).

[jj22]

(01-28-2022, 12:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep.

Anyway…



Btw nobody is “taking away credit from the defense.” This thread just happens to be about Burrow. He threw multiple TD’s in the game where he wasn’t sacked 11 times. And put up 348 yards while completely under siege in the other one. Not even the greats like Brady or Mahomes do that. Most QB’s get rattled when they’re being hit that much.

I agree'd with championship ball 3 of the 5 games. You got so defensive I don't think you read my post or understood my argument clearly. But like I said, we can agree to disagree about rather his play in the 2 playoff games was Championship ball, or conservative game management that relied on a strong D and steady special teams to win the games.

I never got the feeling Burrow was taking the 2 playoff games over like I did the other 3.

[TecmoBengals]

I disagree with labeling Burrow as a game manager.

I associate the game manager idiom as meaning he is a QB with statistically average numbers compared to his peers or is unspectacular with his style of play; a game manager QB likely relies on a stout defense or top-notch running game to win games.

Burrow's NFL passing numbers compared to his peers:

Completion % - 1st
Yards gained per pass attempt - 1st
Average yards gained per pass attempt - 1st
QB Rating - 2nd
Yards gained per game - 3rd
Yards - 6th
TDs - 8th

Burrow is an NFL elite QB based on individual stats. He's not a game manager.

[jj22]

(01-28-2022, 12:28 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I disagree with labeling Burrow as a game manager.

I associate the game manager idiom as meaning he is a QB with statistically average numbers compared to his peers or is unspectacular with his style of play; a game manager QB likely relies on a stout defense or top-notch running game to win games.

Burrow's NFL passing numbers compared to his peers:

Completion % - 1st
Yards gained per pass attempt - 1st
Average yards gained per pass attempt - 1st
QB Rating - 2nd
Yards gained per game - 3rd
Yards - 6th
TDs - 8th

Burrow is an NFL elite QB based on individual stats. He's not a game manager.

Are you talking about the playoffs? Or in general? I don't think he is a game manager as QB in general. Has he been in the playoff tho in my opinion....

I think we have been very conservative and safe on offense in the playoffs. I think this playoff run has been all about the Defense and Evan.

Don't let some of the other posters twist my words and have you thinking I think he is a career game manager.

[kalibengal]

(01-28-2022, 12:28 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I disagree with labeling Burrow as a game manager.

I associate the game manager idiom as meaning he is a QB with statistically average numbers compared to his peers or is unspectacular with his style of play; a game manager QB likely relies on a stout defense or top-notch running game to win games.

Burrow's NFL passing numbers compared to his peers:

Completion % - 1st
Yards gained per pass attempt - 1st
Average yards gained per pass attempt - 1st
QB Rating - 2nd
Yards gained per game - 3rd
Yards - 6th
TDs - 8th

Burrow is an NFL elite QB based on individual stats. He's not a game manager.

wait what!? who is calling Burrow a "Game Manager"?   Thats someone thats looking for stirring up the pot and nothing else .

[Nicomo Cosca]

Hell of an elite play for a game manager…

[TecmoBengals]

(01-28-2022, 12:33 PM)jj22 Wrote: Are you talking about the playoffs? Or in general? I don't think he is a game manager as QB in general. Has he been in the playoff tho....

I also do not think the game manager label is appropriate for his two playoff games. Mahomes, Allen, Brady, and Burrow have all been putting up good numbers typical of good to elite QB play. Not to pivot the discussion away from is he or isn't he a game manager, but if I had to be critical of Burrow I'd offer the red zone offense under his QB'ing has been limited since we've ended up with 8 FGs.

In the playoffs he's 4th in yards, 4th in completion %, third in passing attempts, 4th in yards a game, and 4th in passing rating. He's not managing the offense, Burrow is the offense.

[GAWhoDey]

Yeah, saying Joe Burrow has been fantastic over his past five games isn't the same thing as giving him all the credit for getting us where we are.

The defense has been amazing.

Chase, Uzomah, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, etc have made big plays to make Joe look even better.

It's not about giving any one player or even unit of players all the credit. The Bengals are where they are because they're putting all three phases together at the right time. That also doesn't make Joe a game manager. He's an absolute stud and it's clear that the entire team rallies around him. He lifts everybody's play and they lift his.

[Interceptor]

(01-28-2022, 12:37 PM)kalibengal Wrote: wait what!? who is calling Burrow a "Game Manager"?   Thats someone thats looking for stirring up the pot and nothing else .

Yes, Joe manages to keep the drive alive.

[jj22]

So it's the game manager label triggering you guys? Game managers can have elite plays, they just don't have to carry the team. I don't think Burrow has carried the team these playoff games, he hasn't had to or been asked to. The defense has. They are the story.

Maybe I am the only one that feels the offense has been pretty conservative. We are going to need real Championship ball to beat KC. I don't think you guys ideal of Championship ball as far as what we've seen from the offense in the playoff's is going to do it on Sunday. But clearly that is just me, and I am cool with that.

If we get Burrow's playoff stats in either game on Sunday and win. Holding KC to under 19 points or under 26 points. Then I got news for you guys..... The story will be the Defense.

I mean people will credit Burrow and that is great, I love seeing all the love and Burrow love as much as anyone around here. But someone has to ride for the Defense and their championship play these playoff games. I will be that someone.

[Frank Booth]

28 completions for 348 yards isnt exactly game managing

Jimmy g is a game manager, and a poor one at that

[TecmoBengals]

(01-28-2022, 12:38 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hell of an elite play for a game manager…

Agreed. My framework for a game manager QB includes "unspectacular style of play." Burrow demonstrates he makes the big and spectacular plays when needed; he's the opposite of a game managing QB. The picture you show is an example plus his QB run against the Titans. 

A game manager or not discussion is very subjective and really hard to define, but I just don't see how we can label Burrow as one. Our offense is all about Burrow distributing the ball to his weapons. Not him managing a clock.

[Frank Booth]

(01-28-2022, 12:42 PM)jj22 Wrote: So it's the game manager label triggering you? Game managers can have elite plays, they just don't have to carry the team. I don't think Burrow has carried the team these playoff games, he hasn't had to or been asked to. The defense has.

What qb other than Mahomes has carried their team? Genuine question.

Rams defense has practically been lights out, other than the bucs scoring off of poor LA turnovers

[TecmoBengals]

(01-28-2022, 12:40 PM)GAWhoDey Wrote: Yeah, saying Joe Burrow has been fantastic over his past five games isn't the same thing as giving him all the credit for getting us where we are.  

The defense has been amazing.

Chase, Uzomah, Higgins, Boyd, Mixon, etc have made big plays to make Joe look even better.  

It's not about giving any one player or even unit of players all the credit.  The Bengals are where they are because they're putting all three phases together at the right time. That also doesn't make Joe a game manager.  He's an absolute stud and it's clear that the entire team rallies around him. He lifts everybody's play and they lift his.

Agreed, Burrow alone isn't the only reason the team has experienced playoff success in the 2 wins. Other players' success does not mean Burrow has to be identified as a game manager.

[TecmoBengals]

(01-28-2022, 12:42 PM)jj22 Wrote: So it's the game manager label triggering you guys?

Discussing the topic and disagreeing with you isn't really being triggered unless someone is raging and tell you to shut the hell up or something. I just think it's the wrong label to attach to Burrow as already posted for my framework of what a game manager means.

Since the game manager label is a really subjective label, I looked at the stats and I'm just not seeing it for the two playoff games. His numbers are great and his on field play is spectacular. 

[jj22]

(01-28-2022, 12:42 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: 28 completions for 348 yards isnt exactly game managing

Jimmy g is a game manager, and a poor one at that

Jimmy G  is not a game manager. He hurts his team. No one is saying that about Burrow's play. Yall think Jimmy G and his untimely turnovers and risky unnecessary attempts at making plays that lead to turnovers makes his play in these games a game manager. It doesn't. No wonder so many are triggered if that is your definition a qb managing a game.

Yes Burrow got the yards, but yards mean nothing. Scores do. Yards means he managed the game, kept drives alive, ate up clock and relied on his defense to stop the other team from scoring. Relied on special teams play.

All yards no TD's in a win is what managing a game is all about. Smart, effective QB play.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-28-2022, 12:43 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Agreed. My framework for a game manager QB includes "unspectacular style of play." Burrow demonstrates he makes the big and spectacular plays when needed; he's the opposite of a game managing QB. The picture you show is an example plus his QB run against the Titans. 

A game manager or not discussion is very subjective and really hard to define, but I just don't see how we can label Burrow as one. Our offense is all about Burrow distributing the ball to his weapons. Not him managing a clock.

Against the Raiders he made plays like the absolute dime he put on a rope to Uzomah up the seam, the scramble TD pass in the red zone, the strike to Chase at the end of the Titans game to setup the winning FG…

Those were all examples elite level QBing. Not sure why this is even a debate…

[Frank Booth]

(01-28-2022, 12:51 PM)jj22 Wrote: Jimmy G  is not a game manager. He hurts his team. No one is saying that about Burrow's play. Yall think Jimmy G and his untimely turnovers and risky unnecessary attempts at making plays that lead to turnovers makes his play in these games a game manager. It doesn't. No wonder so many are triggered if that is your definition a qb managing a game.

Yes Burrow got the yards, but yards mean nothing. Scores do. Yards means he managed the game, kept drives alive, ate up clock and relied on his defense to stop the other team from scoring. Relied on special teams play.

All yards no TD's in a win is what managing a game is all about. Smart, effective QB play.

I said Jimmy G is a game manager, AND A POOR ONE AT THAT

he’s a bad game manager. If he’s throwing less than 20 attempts a game, he’s definitely game managing

[TecmoBengals]

(01-28-2022, 12:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Against the Raiders he made plays like the absolute dime he put on a rope to Uzomah up the seam, the scramble TD pass in the red zone, the strike to Chase at the end of the Titans game to setup the winning FG…

Those were all examples elite level QBing. Not sure why this is even a debate…

I'll have to echo your sentiment and also offer I'm not sure this is a practical debate to be having.

The strike to Chase at game's end also exemplifies good to elite play not indicative of a typical game managing QB. Also, wasn't that when Burrow's head set wasn't working? He wasn't managed by Taylor to make that play, he took ownership as an elite QB to get it done.