What last night's loss reminded me of...

[Sovereign Nation]

Week 9 of 2013 - Bengals @ Dolphins on Thursday night football.

1:35 left in the game - tied at 17. Bengals in FG range and 3rd with 4 to go. Dolphins have 1 time out left.

A 1st down basically wins the game, if not, then the Dolphins have to take their final TO to stop the clock.

So what do the play callers make?

A right, deep pass to Sanu. Inc.

Stops the clock and now 4th down.

We kick the go ahead FG giving us a 20 -17 advantage. However there is still 1:24 on the clock and Miami still has 1 TO left.

1st and 10, we sack Tannehill for a HUGE loss- Great under normal circumstances, not great for us, since Miami took their final TO, stopping the clock with 1:11 left.

OK - so we have a young QB in 2nd and long, no TO left and another sack or more pressure and we get either an errant throw or a quick completion that is stopped for little to no gain.

Instead - we play prevent - the young QB hits for a big gain - not big enough to convert, but big enough to make it 3rd and a yard. Tannehill was able to march his team into FG range and kick the FG to tie it up at 20 - 20. Goes into OT, where after an exchange of possessions, Dalton is sacked in the EZ for a safety, giving the Dolphins the win.

Last night - pretty much the same thing. 3rd and 2, they have no TOs - a run play even without a conversion would have eaten up a lot of clock. A FG ties it, putting us in OT with a chance to win. A conversion secures the clock being ran out, with 2 more chances to throw the ball. Not only that, but we had 2 TOs to work with. I am all for going for the win, but not at the expense of poor situational football. Kill the clock or convert and have 2 more pass attempts to score a TD as well as killing the clock. I will still take 8-2 at this point in the season, so I am not beating up on the team too much. However, I really wish someone would remind whoever is in charge, that in these situations, you have to play situational football. Even if Green had scored there, we now are giving the Cardinals a chance to win, by not killing the clock.

[RoyleRedlegs]

People seriously gonna ***** about trying to win the game?
Our defense wasn't stopping a damn thing.
You wanna take it to OT?

They had one on one man coverage with a bad CB on AJ Green.
It was a bad throw, not a bad decision.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-23-2015, 02:25 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: People seriously gonna ***** about trying to win the game?
Our defense wasn't stopping a damn thing.
You wanna take it to OT?

They had one on one man coverage with a bad CB on AJ Green.
It was a bad throw, not a bad decision.

^This^

Playing a basically prevent defense in the last minute was a worse decision - gotta pressure Palmer there, especially with banged up secondary.

We really lost this game due to waayyy to many penalties.

[yellowxdiscipline]

(11-23-2015, 02:25 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: People seriously gonna ***** about trying to win the game?
Our defense wasn't stopping a damn thing.
You wanna take it to OT?

They had one on one man coverage with a bad CB on AJ Green.
It was a bad throw, not a bad decision.

Yes, prior to the game winning possession, the defense had been stopping Palmer. How else do you think we managed to come back from being down so many points? You never know what can happen in OT.

3rd and 2 was a bad call. Run it, run down the clock, kick a field goal and live to fight in OT.  

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-23-2015, 02:30 PM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: Yes, prior to the game winning possession, the defense had been stopping Palmer. How else do you think we managed to come back from being down so many points? You never know what can happen in OT.

3rd and 2 was a bad call. Run it, run down the clock, kick a field goal and live to fight in OT.  

1. Our run game is wholly unreliable. 
2. You see AJ one on one, I don't give a shit what it is, you take that shot to win the damn game.
3. Sure but they were trying to eat some clock too. When they wanted to throw they could. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-23-2015, 02:29 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: ^This^

Playing a basically prevent defense in the last minute was a worse decision - gotta pressure Palmer there, especially with banged up secondary.

We really lost this game due to waayyy to many penalties.

real and imagined penalties. 
And uncalled ones as well. 
That PI to Dre and no-call on the hit on AJ is still pissing me off more than any other penalty

[Who Dey Time]

Have absolutely zero issue with throwing in that situation.

What I find funny is that the people who are bitching about the decision would be the first ones bitching about the Bengals being "too scared" if they ran it and didn't get it.

[Sovereign Nation]

(11-23-2015, 02:25 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: People seriously gonna ***** about trying to win the game?
Our defense wasn't stopping a damn thing.
You wanna take it to OT?

They had one on one man coverage with a bad CB on AJ Green.
It was a bad throw, not a bad decision.

Maybe you should try to read what I said - I know it is lengthy but you should still at least try.

I have no problem what so ever for going for the win.

I have a problem with ignoring situational football.

That play had so little chance of success due to the variables at play.  The throw itself, the catch, the defenses and the refs (even if ruled a TD, the replay could have overturned it).  That at this situation - we kill the clock.  A run would have upped our chances of winning the game.

If we don't convert we run 40 seconds off the clock, then kick the FG.  Sure there is a chance we miss the FG but we could have still missed the FG if we throw and don't connect.

If we do convert, we then have 2 more chances to throw the ball and get the TD to win the game.  If unsuccessful, then you run the ball on 3rd down to start the clock and kick the FG on 4th down, with considerably much less time.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-23-2015, 02:38 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Maybe you should try to read what I said - I know it is lengthy but you should still at least try.

I have no problem what so ever for going for the win.

I have a problem with ignoring situational football.

That play had so little chance of success due to the variables at play.  The throw itself, the catch, the defenses and the refs (even if ruled a TD, the replay could have overturned it).  That at this situation - we kill the clock.  A run would have upped our chances of winning the game.

If we don't convert we run 40 seconds off the clock, then kick the FG.  Sure there is a chance we miss the FG but we could have still missed the FG if we throw and don't connect.

If we do convert, we then have 2 more chances to throw the ball and get the TD to win the game.  If unsuccessful, then you run the ball on 3rd down to start the clock and kick the FG on 4th down, with considerably much less time.

You also might not get AJ one on one again. 
Peterson might come back in.
Gio might fumble.
Gio might not get the first. 

When the best chance to score presents itself, you take it. AJ one on one is that chance. 

[Sovereign Nation]

(11-23-2015, 02:38 PM)Who Dey Time Wrote: Have absolutely zero issue with throwing in that situation.

What I find funny is that the people who are bitching about the decision would be the first ones bitching about the Bengals being "too scared" if they ran it and didn't get it.

Wrong.  I would be happy if the Bengals would have ran and not converted, since that means 40 seconds are killed off the clock.

We kick a FG and the game is tied. 

Go into OT, and a chance to win.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-23-2015, 02:42 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Wrong.  I would be happy if the Bengals would have ran and not converted, since that means 40 seconds are killed off the clock.

We kick a FG and the game is tied. 

Go into OT, and a chance to win.

We had a chance to go to OT and win.
Our defense couldn't do shit. 

Why would that magically change in OT? 

[Billy_Bengal]

Get the first down, THEN go for the win.

[Sovereign Nation]

(11-23-2015, 02:41 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: You also might not get AJ one on one again. 
Peterson might come back in.
Gio might fumble.
Gio might not get the first. 

When the best chance to score presents itself, you take it. AJ one on one is that chance. 

So?  We don't get AJ one on one...

What is more probable...

Gio fumbling or throwing an incomplete?

I don't care if Gio, doesn't get the 1st.  I care about killing the clock.  Gio getting the 1st is a bonus, and would allow us to either target AJ or someone else.

[Who Dey Time]

(11-23-2015, 02:42 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Wrong.  I would be happy if the Bengals would have ran and not converted, since that means 40 seconds are killed off the clock.

We kick a FG and the game is tied. 

Go into OT, and a chance to win.

So we want to go into OT and trust that the defense will get a stop?  The same defense that allowed 27 points in the second half and gave up three big pass plays in the final minute to allow the GW FG?????  That is what we are going to forego the chance to win in regulation with?

[Sovereign Nation]

(11-23-2015, 02:43 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: We had a chance to go to OT and win.
Our defense couldn't do shit. 

Why would that magically change in OT? 

Well - by this logic then why go for the win?

Our defense couldn't do shit, so let us say Green scores.

We are now giving the Cardinals 58 seconds to score a TD. Since our defense was so bad, they may have giving up a TD.  We lose.

So why would that magically change if Green scores?

[Sovereign Nation]

(11-23-2015, 02:46 PM)Who Dey Time Wrote: So we want to go into OT and trust that the defense will get a stop?  The same defense that allowed 27 points in the second half and gave up three big pass plays in the final minute to allow the GW FG?????  That is what we are going to forego the chance to win in regulation with?

Ha... Same question...

This same defense would have had to prevent the Cardinals from scoring a TD with 58s left.

You really think it could have succeeded then?

[*Nately120*]

Didn't Dalton audible out of the run? Meh, I can certainly see looking at the defense and calling out that mismatch, so I can't be too upset. The thing we all have to admit is that run or pass, it's going to see like genius if we succeed and idiocy if we fail. The type of play is secondary to the result when it comes to evaluating the call.

[Who Dey Time]

(11-23-2015, 02:50 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Ha... Same question...

This same defense would have had to prevent the Cardinals from scoring a TD with 58s left.

You really think it could have succeeded then?

Certainly a better chance knowing Arizona needed a TD vs FG.  In a similar situation at Pittsburgh the D prevented the touchdown.

[Bengal Dude]

(11-23-2015, 02:52 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Didn't Dalton audible out of the run?  Meh, I can certainly see looking at the defense and calling out that mismatch, so I can't be too upset.  The thing we all have to admit is that run or pass, it's going to see like genius if we succeed and idiocy if we fail.  The type of play is secondary to the result when it comes to evaluating the call.

He didn't audible. It was an option route. He pulled the ball from Gio's hands and chose to throw it.

[Sovereign Nation]

(11-23-2015, 02:44 PM)Billy_Bengal Wrote: Get the first down, THEN go for the win.

Exactly...

Even without converting.

We kill 40s off the clock.

Kick a FG - Tie the game-  go into OT.

In OT - we win the Coin Toss, attempt to go down and score a TD or FG.  Score a TD and the defense doesn't have to do anything, game over we win.  We kick a FG, then the Cardinals have to respond-  it is easier to defend against a TD than it is to defend against a FG, so even if the Cardinals kick another FG to tie it again, we now have the ball, and would be in a better place to win with a FG.

we lose the Coin Toss - then our chances decrease - however, we at least will have a shot at scoring a TD on our possession.