Good Cop Bad Cop

[*pally*]

I read an interview, and for the life of me can't remember where, but the interviewer asked an offensive player, I believe was Isaiah Prince, about who was the "enforcer" in the locker room. Who was the player who steps up and calls out transgressions, lack of attention, etc? Kind of like the locker room Dad. He said there were 2 players who took care of the locker room. Jessie Bates, who will pull the player to the side and have a conversation. The other player is DJ Reader who takes a more direct approach. He walks across the locker room, using every bit of his size to stand in front of the player and calls him out in front of everybody, and tells him how it is going to be. Kind of a good cop bad cop situation. The player also pointed out that very seldomly does anyone need that kind of attention. But, it made me think of what we lost when in one off-season, the team lost Andrew Whitworth, Domato Peko, and Cedric Peerman the 3 acknowledged locker room leaders. I don't think this team had any leaders approaching that trio until this year. And it is so important to have them especially on a team with so many young men on it

[fredtoast]

The key to being an effective leader is knowing that the same approach does not work for everyone. If you get in some people's face they will just get defensive and shut down, but others will be motivated by it.

My dad was more the type of "keeping his head when all around him were losing theirs". So I was never really impressed by coaches losing their shit and screaming and yelling. But some people (especially high school and college kids) respond to that.

[*pally*]

(02-07-2022, 02:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The key to being an effective leader is knowing that the same approach does not work for everyone.  If you get in some people's face they will just get defensive and shut down, but others will be motivated by it.

My dad was more the type of "keeping his head when all around him were losing theirs".  So I was never really impressed by coaches losing their shit and screaming and yelling.  But some people (especially high school and college kids) respond to that.

yep...some of the guys respond to a Jessie approach and some do better with the DJ approach.  Sounds like they have a handle on who needs what

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-07-2022, 02:14 PM)pally Wrote: I read an interview, and for the life of me can't remember where, but the interviewer asked an offensive player, I believe was Isaiah Prince, about who was the "enforcer" in the locker room.  Who was the player who steps up and calls out transgressions, lack of attention, etc?  Kind of like the locker room Dad.  He said there were 2 players who took care of the locker room.  Jessie Bates, who will pull the player to the side and have a conversation.  The other player is DJ Reader who takes a more direct approach.  He walks across the locker room, using every bit of his size to stand in front of the player and calls him out in front of everybody, and tells him how it is going to be. Kind of a good cop bad cop situation. The player also pointed out that very seldomly does anyone need that kind of attention.  But, it made me think of what we lost when in one off-season, the team lost Andrew Whitworth, Domato Peko, and Cedric Peerman the 3 acknowledged locker room leaders.  I don't think this team had any leaders approaching that trio until this year.  And it is so important to have them especially on a team with so many young men on it

It was Samaje Perine on the team's site.

[Speedy Thomas]

(02-07-2022, 02:14 PM)pally Wrote: I read an interview, and for the life of me can't remember where, but the interviewer asked an offensive player, I believe was Isaiah Prince, about who was the "enforcer" in the locker room.  Who was the player who steps up and calls out transgressions, lack of attention, etc?  Kind of like the locker room Dad.  He said there were 2 players who took care of the locker room.  Jessie Bates, who will pull the player to the side and have a conversation.  The other player is DJ Reader who takes a more direct approach.  He walks across the locker room, using every bit of his size to stand in front of the player and calls him out in front of everybody, and tells him how it is going to be. Kind of a good cop bad cop situation. The player also pointed out that very seldomly does anyone need that kind of attention.  But, it made me think of what we lost when in one off-season, the team lost Andrew Whitworth, Domato Peko, and Cedric Peerman the 3 acknowledged locker room leaders.  I don't think this team had any leaders approaching that trio until this year.  And it is so important to have them especially on a team with so many young men on it

Pally, great point about losing Whit, Peko, and Peerman, and the effect off the field as well as on.  It has taken us till now to recover from that.

This morning I listened to Solly and Torry Holt ask Zac about how he will keep the players' focus amid all the distractions.  He said something like, "I can set a curfew but it's up to our captains to see that everyone stays focused."

This is a great approach to leading adults -- IF you have the right locker room.  Leaders the coaches can trust, players who are willing to follow them.  I once visited the Indiana University locker room back when they were winning national championships, and a sign on the wall has stayed with me:  "Lead, follow, or get out of the way."  Bob Knight and Zac might have dissimilar approaches, but share the same philosophy.

Regarding leadership style, you have to be yourself.  No one will follow a phony.  Bates and Reader sound like a great combination. 

[*pally*]

(02-07-2022, 03:11 PM)Wyche Wrote: It was Samaje Perine on the team's site.

Thank You!

I remember thinking about how different it is that the offensive guy so easily accepted the defensive guys as the leaders.  Far too often opposite side rivalries get in the way.  It was just another sign of how different this team is from some in the past

[*bengalfan74*]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out CJ's voice is heard in there as well.

[Emphasis]

I guess whatever's going on seems to be working. A balanced approached would make sense.

No matter what the situation is, I've personally never found excessive yelling and screaming to be particularly productive in practically anything really. One of the only exceptions I can think of is a part of military training or something of that nature.

[gman657]

(02-07-2022, 02:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The key to being an effective leader is knowing that the same approach does not work for everyone. If you get in some people's face they will just get defensive and shut down, but others will be motivated by it.

My dad was more the type of "keeping his head when all around him were losing theirs". So I was never really impressed by coaches losing their shit and screaming and yelling. But some people (especially high school and college kids) respond to that.

I thought you did not believe in the impact of leadership in a locker room?

[HarleyDog]

(02-07-2022, 06:31 PM)Emphasis Wrote: No matter what the situation is, I've personally never found excessive yelling and screaming to be particularly productive in practically anything really. One of the only exceptions I can think of is a part of military training or something of that nature.

Scared the crap out of me.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-07-2022, 02:14 PM)pally Wrote: I read an interview, and for the life of me can't remember where, but the interviewer asked an offensive player, I believe was Isaiah Prince, about who was the "enforcer" in the locker room.  Who was the player who steps up and calls out transgressions, lack of attention, etc?  Kind of like the locker room Dad.  He said there were 2 players who took care of the locker room.  Jessie Bates, who will pull the player to the side and have a conversation.  The other player is DJ Reader who takes a more direct approach.  He walks across the locker room, using every bit of his size to stand in front of the player and calls him out in front of everybody, and tells him how it is going to be. Kind of a good cop bad cop situation. The player also pointed out that very seldomly does anyone need that kind of attention.  But, it made me think of what we lost when in one off-season, the team lost Andrew Whitworth, Domato Peko, and Cedric Peerman the 3 acknowledged locker room leaders.  I don't think this team had any leaders approaching that trio until this year.  And it is so important to have them especially on a team with so many young men on it

Doesn't surprise me with DJ and hearing him after the Titans game. Thanks for this Pally, awesome having great leaders all across 
the board and the Defense is the main reason we are here unlike all the broadcasters and analysts who only speak of Burrow and 
the Offense. This Defense is for real and they make it possible to beat anyone even if our Offense is struggling.

[fredtoast]

(02-07-2022, 06:38 PM)gman657 Wrote: I thought you did not believe in the impact of leadership in a locker room?

Leadership is useless without talent.

Robert E. Lee was a great military leader.  He lost.

Joe Burrow is a great leader.  Last year without talent he was a big loser.

[Bronxbengal]

(02-07-2022, 02:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My dad was more the type of "keeping his head when all around him were losing theirs". So I was never really impressed by coaches losing their shit and screaming and yelling. But some people (especially high school and college kids) respond to that.

Wrong….todays kids do not respond to the yelling. I work with kids and they shutdown if you take this approach. This approach does not work and the reason why more younger coaches being hired.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[*bfine32*]

(02-08-2022, 12:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Leadership is useless without talent.

Alexander the Great Wrote:I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion.

I'll take Alexander the Great's view on leadership over fredtoast's

[Sled21]

(02-08-2022, 12:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Leadership is useless without talent.

Robert E. Lee was a great military leader.  He lost.

Joe Burrow is a great leader.  Last year without talent he was a big loser.

Not really the place for a history lesson, but Lee did not lose because of lack of talent. His Generals, especially Jackson and Longstreet, were the cream of the crop and what Jackson accomplished during the Shenandoah Campaign still hasn't been matched. Lee lost due to the blockade and lack of supplies, industry and infrastructure. The North had almost all the manufacturing, while the south was mostly agricultural. Add to that, Railroads in the north used standardized tracks while railroads in the south did not, so train traffic was limited by track size. 

[fredtoast]

(02-08-2022, 05:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Not really the place for a history lesson, but Lee did not lose because of lack of talent. His Generals, especially Jackson and Longstreet, were the cream of the crop and what Jackson accomplished during the Shenandoah Campaign still hasn't been matched. Lee lost due to the blockade and lack of supplies, industry and infrastructure. The North had almost all the manufacturing, while the south was mostly agricultural. Add to that, Railroads in the north used standardized tracks while railroads in the south did not, so train traffic was limited by track size. 

I know exactly why Lee lost.  I never said he lost because of "talent".

My point was that leadership does not win without talent or resources. 

[fredtoast]

(02-08-2022, 01:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll take Alexander the Great's view on leadership over fredtoast's

And any day you can round up some lines and sheep I'll take that challenge.

[Sled21]

(02-08-2022, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I know exactly why Lee lost.  I never said he lost because of "talent".

My point was that leadership does not win without talent or resources. 

Oh, ok...

[*bfine32*]

(02-08-2022, 05:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And any day you can round up some lines and sheep I'll take that challenge.

Not surprised the wisdom of Alexander's metaphor was lost on you. 

[fredtoast]

(02-08-2022, 06:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not surprised the wisdom of Alexander's metaphor was lost on you. 

Not surprised that you don't understand that the '20 Bengals were a group of sheep led by a lion.

What did that get us?

I prefer facts and reality to sophomoric euphemisms.