How much to retain? - Eli Apple

[*ochocincos*]

Curious what people think it will take to retain certain players.
In this one, we're talking Eli Apple, who was added as a depth player on a 1-year, $1.1 mill deal that has actually turned into a starter with Waynes injury.
Apple has continually improved over the season as he acclimated to the team.

Note - I voted $5-6 mill, as I think that will for sure lock him in. I think $3-4 mill could, but he could decide to go elsewhere in that range too.

[Schmitbuck]

I say let him walk. I'm glad he's performed great at times this year, but he's a headcase. He and his mom should delete their social media. CB also appears to be one of the deeper positions in free agency.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2022, 11:13 AM)Schmitbuck Wrote: I say let him walk. I'm glad he's performed great at times this year, but he's a headcase. He and his mom should delete their social media. CB also appears to be one of the deeper positions in free agency.

While I can see your point, I think it will (and should) come down to $$.

Bengals have Phillips, Apple, Flowers, and Hargreaves all hitting FA.
People also want Waynes released to free up $11 mill in cap.
If that happens, Bengals have only two CBs still on the team.

Apple has the starting experience, did ok by year's end, and has the familiarity with Anarumo's system.

[Interceptor]

Keep Flowers.

[Schmitbuck]

(02-11-2022, 11:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: While I can see your point, I think it will (and should) come down to $$.

Bengals have Phillips, Apple, Flowers, and Hargreaves all hitting FA.
People also want Waynes released to free up $11 mill in cap.
If that happens, Bengals have only two CBs still on the team.

Apple has the starting experience, did ok by year's end, and has the familiarity with Anarumo's system.

It very well could come down to $ and good point on the number of guys entering FA, but I don't give him much guaranteed money and I don't give him a deal that's he's hear longer than Vonn Bell's contract so I guess it's a one year deal or nothing for me. I give credit to Bell and possibly Hubbard for keeping Apple on the rails because of their history together at OSU. But he's a ticking timebomb that could make it bad for the locker room if a few injuries happen.

I see this draft being one where two, maybe 3 CBs get picked. Need to start getting some younger guys in there for 2 years from now. 

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2022, 12:04 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Keep Flowers.

I don't see Flowers being better than Apple.
Flowers is probably better in a coverage safety role or assigned to TEs.
He has the size but not great speed.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-11-2022, 12:32 PM)Schmitbuck Wrote: It very well could come down to $ and good point on the number of guys entering FA, but I don't give him much guaranteed money and I don't give him a deal that's he's hear longer than Vonn Bell's contract so I guess it's a one year deal or nothing for me. I give credit to Bell and possibly Hubbard for keeping Apple on the rails because of their history together at OSU. But he's a ticking timebomb that could make it bad for the locker room if a few injuries happen.

I see this draft being one where two, maybe 3 CBs get picked. Need to start getting some younger guys in there for 2 years from now. 

I think two CBs is the most Bengals can afford to spend in the draft unless they trade back.
They don't have an abundance of picks and a lot of other positions to worry about too.

Anarumo seems to favor FA for his defense, so we'll see how FA goes.

[Interceptor]

(02-11-2022, 12:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't see Flowers being better than Apple.
Flowers is probably better in a coverage safety role or assigned to TEs.
He has the size but not great speed.

Keep him for games that have an opposing star TE. He came into the league as a safety. They tried to turn him into a CB, thus he was playing out of position.

[schroomytunes]

I voted @4 million, I wouldn't pay more than that, and I'm also interested in keeping Flowers as depth, I think he plays well in certain packages. For me in the fall I would like our CB's to be:

1) Awuzie
2) Hilton-slot
3) Apple
4) Flowers-nickle/dime guy
5) Draft pick (1-3 rd)
6) Draft pick that can also return punts (5-6 rd)

[*ochocincos*]

(02-12-2022, 07:21 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: I voted @4 million, I wouldn't pay more than that, and I'm also interested in keeping Flowers as depth, I think he plays well in certain packages. For me in the fall I would like our CB's to be:

1) Awuzie
2) Hilton-slot
3) Apple
4) Flowers-nickle/dime guy
5) Draft pick (1-3 rd)
6) Draft pick that can also return punts (5-6 rd)

I'd agree with all this, although I'd be ok with a WR or RB to be PR instead of a DB.
One of the nation's best PRs is expected to go late Day 3 and is a WR - Velus Jones Jr, WR Tennessee (formerly USC).
Just this past season, Jones had 23 KRs for 628 yards (27.3 YPR) and 18 PRs for 272 yards (15.1 YPR).
He's also not too shabby of a slot receiver.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/velus-jones-jr-1.html

[MickMack]

(02-11-2022, 12:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't see Flowers being better than Apple.
Flowers is probably better in a coverage safety role or assigned to TEs.
He has the size but not great speed.

That's harder to find in free agency.  Apple's production can be found for a reasonably cheap price.  There's a glut of corners in this free agent class.

[puddycat]

Apple = Darius Phillips except Phillips sometimes gets beat and Apple just commits PI. Available at 2-3M as a CB 4/5.

[NATI BENGALS]

I voted 5-6 but it's not even my money and I already regret it...

He talks too much

knock that shit off and quit motivating our competition with your jackassery.

He would be smart to stick around because I don't think too many coaches like him other than Lou.

[Okeana]

he is in his mid-twenties, motivated, and just had the best season of his career. at worst you have a quality backup and at best he continues improving. I would rather have him + someone like Richard Sherman who is ring chasing. match those guys together for the price of a top cornerback and we got something special. Anything 4 and under I'm happy with.

[leonardfan40]

I also imagine around $5 mil when thinking about that cap and he is worth that based on the production we got from him this year.

I voted 3-4 mil though. The more I think about it he still only has about half a good season to convince teams and thats in the right scheme. Then he started talking shit which nobody wants from their boarder line starter/backup CB. I think it’ll be less than five mil on a short (1-2 years) deal. Then if he can put together another solid year he may get a decent medium length contract next offseason.

[Gdale_Bengal]

If there are other cbs in the 4-6 mil range in FA I think I’d rather sign one of them. I don’t much care for Eli’s mouth. If I’m looking in FA for corners, I’m lookin in the first 3 rounds for one too.

[*ochocincos*]

FWIW, PFF has a contract projection for Apple as a 1-year, $4.25 mill.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-24-2022, 07:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: FWIW, PFF has a contract projection for Apple as a 1-year, $4.25 mill.

I’d happily do that.

[phil413]

I think Eli walks. They'll wait it out with how deep the FA class is at corner. You could justify signing an older but descent vet for 2 years asking less than what Eli wants. They also know they need to fix the OL and retain the guys most of us have talked about. They then take a corner in the first 3 rounds and may even land another FA playing the waiting game.

[Au165]

(02-11-2022, 12:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't see Flowers being better than Apple.
Flowers is probably better in a coverage safety role or assigned to TEs.
He has the size but not great speed.

I expect Flowers to be retained as a utility safety/CB hybrid like what we originally got Ricardo Allen for. Also…he has amazing speed that’s why people fell in love with him, his change of direction on the outside though leaves something to be desired but makes sense at his size.