Boyd had 2 huge miscues in SB

[casear2727]

(02-19-2022, 11:21 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: We could this all day for others also.  For example two big plays that cost us from Burrow

1. 4 and 1 on first drive, he forces one to Chase into coverage and Perine is uncovered enough for a easy 1st down, Rams drive down and score
2.  2nd series , 3rd and 4, Evans makes great move gets behind defense open down sideline good chance to go for a TD, Burrow overthrows him. 

Rarely is any player going to play a perfect game so there are going to be multiple plays that could have changed the outcome

I agree there are many plays.

The ones you cited are interesting.

4 and 1 on first drive
You can see pre-snap Ramsey is outside eyeing Higgins going in motion past Chase.  The Safety over top of Chase is 7 yards deep, we need one yard.  Chase seems to be the obvious read.





Ball is snapped at 9:59, at 9:58 Robinson is running free at Joe, he literally has one second to release the ball. Ramsey doesnt take Higgins like we would think he would and immediately closes down on Chase. Perine is barely out of the backfield with his back turned.  Joe simply ended up guessing wrong because of Ramsey's decision to not cover Tee.






This is more of a Ramsey play than Burrow screwing up (not saying Burrow doesnt ever screw up)




2nd series , 3rd and 4
Evans is almost knocked down by the defender, loses a step as he is knocked off stride. Joe is beginning his throwing motion...




Within that same split second Joe is cocked and ready to release to Evans. If he has a clean route is this pass on the money? 



At 4:56 dline converges on Joe front and back.

[Yogo]

(02-19-2022, 10:39 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think we all like Boyd. 

But I have these 2 issues and $10M more in 2022 and $10M more in 2023.

At that salary we have Laken Tomlinson instead of Adeniji at RG. 

I understand we have enough to fix the oline, hopefully (CB2 and DT to be determined), but with his experience and salary we need super star play on the biggest stage.  How clutch was the Rams slot guy?  MVP


I can spread the blame around as well... Zac running Perine, no screen plays, Lou not doubling Kupp with OBJ and TE out of the game.... we were so close to winning the SB, coaches and high dollar vets need to step up at crucial times.

I like Boyd too, but that money saved could help with FA OL.  With the FA TE market being stacked, I think we could and 1 or 2 good Tier 2 TEs for cheap as well, go to a 2 TE set.  I think about the stacked FA safety class 5 years ago and how all the good safeties couldn't find jobs and had to take lower contracts for just 1 year.

[Ctfan73]

(02-19-2022, 10:58 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: True but I hope I'll see the Bengals win a Super Bowl before I decompose.  

Summer of George...

[casear2727]

(02-19-2022, 11:21 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: We could this all day for others also.  For example two big plays that cost us from Burrow

1. 4 and 1 on first drive, he forces one to Chase into coverage and Perine is uncovered enough for a easy 1st down, Rams drive down and score
2.  2nd series , 3rd and 4, Evans makes great move gets behind defense open down sideline good chance to go for a TD, Burrow overthrows him. 

Rarely is any player going to play a perfect game so there are going to be multiple plays that could have changed the outcome

4 and 1 on first drive
In addition to the above, I rewatched a couple more times as #50 actually made a play on the ball to Chase.  Ramsey and the Safety did switch but this was schemed terribly.

We sent Perine to the flat and #50 was assigned to him in man coverage and we basically just pulled #50 right into that passing lane.... geez!

[QueenCity]

(02-19-2022, 11:09 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I’ll get more critical when free agency and the draft approach.

Agreed.... thinking more about the SB just hurts.  I'm a more of an out of site out of mind type of guy.  

However I did click on this thread...

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-19-2022, 10:36 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah I noticed during the game. I saw Burrow gesture to someone they should've have gone right so I went back to look at the play. I saw it was Boyd and it looked pretty obvious he should've gone outside. We could've very easily won this game if we were better on just a few more plays. I like Boyd a lot and it sucks he had a couple of bad plays that very well could've made the difference. Hopefully they can get back and get another crack at it.

Zac told em to drop passes and run wrong routes.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-20-2022, 12:01 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I agree there are many plays.

The ones you cited are interesting.

4 and 1 on first drive
You can see pre-snap Ramsey is outside eyeing Higgins going in motion past Chase.  The Safety over top of Chase is 7 yards deep, we need one yard.  Chase seems to be the obvious read.





Ball is snapped at 9:59, at 9:58 Robinson is running free at Joe, he literally has one second to release the ball. Ramsey doesnt take Higgins like we would think he would and immediately closes down on Chase. Perine is barely out of the backfield with his back turned.  Joe simply ended up guessing wrong because of Ramsey's decision to not cover Tee.






This is more of a Ramsey play than Burrow screwing up (not saying Burrow doesnt ever screw up)




2nd series , 3rd and 4
Evans is almost knocked down by the defender, loses a step as he is knocked off stride. Joe is beginning his throwing motion...




Within that same split second Joe is cocked and ready to release to Evans. If he has a clean route is this pass on the money? 



At 4:56 dline converges on Joe front and back.

Higgins was wide open on the 4th and 1. If I had time to see it, he had time to see it. He was predetermined to go to Chase, and it cost him. Boyd was wide open on the back side. That would be the receiver he couldn't see. I mean, Higgins is even in the same field of vision. He locked on to Chase. That's it. Hell, he's triple covered!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-20-2022, 01:48 AM)casear2727 Wrote: 4 and 1 on first drive
In addition to the above, I rewatched a couple more times as #50 actually made a play on the ball to Chase.  Ramsey and the Safety did switch but this was schemed terribly.

We sent Perine to the flat and #50 was assigned to him in man coverage and we basically just pulled #50 right into that passing lane.... geez!

He shouldn't have thrown to Chase, and maybe something slowed things up to get that LB down on Perine, or Joe threw it too fast because of pressure. Either way, he had a WIDE open receiver five yards away. That's on the QB.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-20-2022, 07:32 AM)Wyche Wrote: Zac told em to drop passes and run wrong routes.

Well after telling them to not run any screens I'd believe it. 

[samhain]

I'd hate to see Tyler go. He's been one of the few bright spots on a lot of bad teams here. As for the money, he's earned it as much as anyone.

IMO Boyd is one of a few tough decisions that they need to make at some point. They clearly have 2 top end receivers. Yes, one could get injured and you love to have Boyd in that scenario. However, when you take a cumulative look at the roster we have one really, really loaded position group at wr and one horribly deficient one at OL.

Are you better off having one super-strong group at the potential expense of another? I understand that they have some cap to burn, but is it enough to really invest heavily up front? I'm not so sure. 10 mil gets a pretty good veteran interior linemen.

The other factor here is the history of drafting and development between these two position groups. I have less than zero faith in the Bengals to develop interior offensive linemen. They aren't exactly world beaters at finding tackles, either. Even more so without high picks. I do, however think they can find receivers that work. They have a quarterback that's good enough to make decent receivers look good, and a top 2 that can deflect enough from anyone down the roster to give them opportunities to succeed. Chase and Tee get enough attention to make any 3rd's job a lot less stressful. You're not going to be asking a 3rd receiver to come in here and carry the offense.

If we're honest, receivers are a dime a dozen in the NFL right now. They come out of college much more ready to contribute immediately. The modern rules vs dbs also heavily favor them as opposed to in the past. Linemen are harder to find and develop than ever, particularly for teams running a wide zone.

I guess what I'm saying is, I'm good with him being here, but I'd also understand if they saw fit to re-allocate resources elsewhere. He and Uzomah are a big part of the team's leadership, but they are also both fairly costly as 4th or 5th offensive options. Boyd got his deal when he was the number 2 to AJ, so by default became the number 1 in his absence. He's most certainly not that anymore due to no fault of his own. There are other leaders here now, to say the least. I don't know if their contributions are with 1 mil and 7-8 mil when other areas are in need of major help. Team leaders and locker room guys are great to have, but they aren't worth that kind of coin at the expense of other needs when they aren't the best players on the team anymore.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-20-2022, 12:01 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I agree there are many plays.

The ones you cited are interesting.

4 and 1 on first drive
You can see pre-snap Ramsey is outside eyeing Higgins going in motion past Chase.  The Safety over top of Chase is 7 yards deep, we need one yard.  Chase seems to be the obvious read.





Ball is snapped at 9:59, at 9:58 Robinson is running free at Joe, he literally has one second to release the ball. Ramsey doesnt take Higgins like we would think he would and immediately closes down on Chase. Perine is barely out of the backfield with his back turned.  Joe simply ended up guessing wrong because of Ramsey's decision to not cover Tee.






This is more of a Ramsey play than Burrow screwing up (not saying Burrow doesnt ever screw up)




2nd series , 3rd and 4
Evans is almost knocked down by the defender, loses a step as he is knocked off stride. Joe is beginning his throwing motion...




Within that same split second Joe is cocked and ready to release to Evans. If he has a clean route is this pass on the money? 



At 4:56 dline converges on Joe front and back.

Perine had no one within range on snap, llb. Was late, chame had tight coverage, Evan's made a great move, and was open , the bobble step did not matter ball was way over thrown. The point is not blame one player since there are multiple plays we can critique by other players. 

[samhain]

(02-20-2022, 12:08 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Perine had no one within range on snap, llb. Was late, chame had tight coverage, Evan's made a great move, and was open , the bobble step did not matter ball was way over thrown. The point is not blame one player since there are multiple plays we can critique by other players. 

I mean, if you can't completely blame Burrow, you might as well retreat and blame everyone.

[Nicomo Cosca]

That play was 100% on Evans. Burrow made plenty of mistakes in that game, but that wasn’t one of them.

[Au165]

People trying way too hard to come up with reasons to move on from Boyd and it’s comical. We can talk about the 2nd down throw in the last drive where Burrow wanted Chase to go deep and he broke it off early and burrow bombed it to no one, we cutting Chase now?

They aren’t moving on from Boyd, you need THREE legit receiving threats in the NFL today to protect yourself from doubles. The Chiefs have actually struggled with this for two years and it’s caught up with them each time. If you move in from Boyd no one has answered where this 3rd receiving threat is coming from. Bottom line they aren’t moving on and the money claim doesn’t even actually make sense as you don’t need that money, there are plenty of mechanics to do what they need to do without it.

This isn’t Madden, cutting team leaders versus letting the guys who got you there run their course and do their whole career in a place is bad for the organization. All that culture stuff we have been working on goes out the door quickly when you try to get too penny smart and pound foolish.

[fredtoast]

(02-19-2022, 10:14 PM)casear2727 Wrote: But TB is THE veteran on the offense, it is just insane that he has 2 mental errors in the SB.

Actually the only thing insane is believing that no other Bengal had 2 mistakes in that game.

I bet that if you graded every play for every Bengal player you would see that ALL of them made at least 2 mistakes in that game.  Even Burrow missed some throws and did not make 100% proper reads.

[Tony]

(02-20-2022, 01:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually the only thing insane is believing that no other Bengal had 2 mistakes in that game.

I bet that if you graded every play for every Bengal player you would see that ALL of them made at least 2 mistakes in that game.  Even Burrow missed some throws and did not make 100% proper reads.

Boyd's were huge though...

[Essex Johnson]

(02-20-2022, 12:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That play was 100% on Evans. Burrow made plenty of mistakes in that game, but that wasn’t one of them.

and as usual you are 100% wrong.. lol

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-20-2022, 04:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: and as usual you are 100% wrong.. lol

#burrowderangementsyndrome

[SunsetBengal]

(02-19-2022, 10:14 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Maybe some of us just like reviewing the plays?  Or have issues dealing.... lol 

I found some good ones too, it's not all bad. But TB is THE veteran on the offense, it is just insane that he has 2 mental errors in the SB.

You have a very valid point, both of those plays were critical 3rd down plays, one of them with the Bengals in position to seize all of the momentum and go up by two scores.

[casear2727]

(02-20-2022, 07:40 AM)Wyche Wrote: Higgins was wide open on the 4th and 1. If I had time to see it, he had time to see it. He was predetermined to go to Chase, and it cost him. Boyd was wide open on the back side. That would be the receiver he couldn't see. I mean, Higgins is even in the same field of vision. He locked on to Chase. That's it. Hell, he's triple covered!

Higgins is a much tougher throw, longer to take, not to mention Robinson is coming free at his face in ONE second.

Chase was not tripled covered the Safety who was 7 yds deep over Chase (which made Chase the right read) was switching with Ramsey who closed down on Chase, and the lber #50 wasnt covering Chase he had Perine in man and since Perine went to the flat that pulled the lber right into the passing zone.