O-Line Cost Us a Championship

[THE PISTONS]

(02-21-2022, 01:43 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: And there is a reason that they have been average or worse, for the majority of 30+ years.

This is the first time the bengals have had a viable Super Bowl team (with the exception of 05 Bengals) during the salary cap era - 1994.  It’s time to throw the old model out the window…it’s delivered us exactly 1 season of playoff victories.  The biggest difference between Bree’s and rivers…. 1 super bowl.

So I'd like to see them go all in. From 2010 to 2015 I complained that we needed to add a C or a MLB that could cover...

But, they chose to roll cap space over to retain guys when their contracts are up. (Just think how bad the 2016+ season would have been without that cap space! Haha)

I guess we'll see how they handle this. It's blatantly obvious that they need offensive line help. We'll see if they go all in on like an Armstead. Or if they go the value route.

The value route could be an upgrade over what they had. But, I'm sure they thought that going into this past year as they got rid of Hart and MJ and had new starters. It just worked out equally as bad.

[fredtoast]

(02-21-2022, 12:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: You could have done both.  The chiefs did it with Thuney, we could have as wel.

(02-21-2022, 01:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, it's something the Bengals have never done.

When is the last time the Bengals had cap issues during the offseason because they spent too aggressively.

No way any team in the league goes "all in" and sacrifices the future to try and win it all in a season when they don't even know if their starting QB is going to be 100% healthy.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-22-2022, 01:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No way any team in the league goes "all in" and sacrifices the future to try and win it all in a season when they don't even know if their starting QB is going to be 100% healthy.

Well...like the Cowboys do it. But, smart teams don't.

And I'm sure if the Bengals knew there were going to make it to the SB and lose because the gave up a bunch of sacks that maybe they draft or sign a different lineman. Hindsight is 20/20.

But, the year before they signed guys like Reader who got hurt too. So no way they knew they'd be this good.

[Bengalbug]

(02-22-2022, 01:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No way any team in the league goes "all in" and sacrifices the future to try and win it all in a season when they don't even know if their starting QB is going to be 100% healthy.

I love how signing a Gaurd constitutes going all in and sacrificing the future. The rams are sacrificing the future. MANY teams trade away future picks, and manipulating the cap to invest in the team. LOL

It’s idiotic to NOT have invested in an OL with a QB who was not 100% due to a f’ed up line the previous year. Hell, they almost repeated history multiple times this year because of it. Burrow couldn’t finish the raiders game and shouldn’t have been in the last few drives of SB. But I agree, let’s just put turnstiles out there, as to not sacrifice the future.

You can’t get any stupider.

[Bengalbug]

(02-22-2022, 03:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...like the Cowboys do it. But, smart teams don't.

And I'm sure if the Bengals knew there were going to make it to the SB and lose because the gave up a bunch of sacks that maybe they draft or sign a different lineman. Hindsight is 20/20.

But, the year before they signed guys like Reader who got hurt too. So no way they knew they'd be this good.

Even if they didn’t think they were going to make the playoffs… do you really want your franchise QB in the same position as the year previously? It almost happened, twice.

The chargers likely didn’t have super bow aspirations and they replaced 4! Offensive lineman, to protect their franchise QB.

[fredtoast]

(02-22-2022, 04:09 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Even if they didn’t think they were going to make the playoffs… do you really want your franchise QB in the same position as the year previously?  It almost happened, twice.  

The chargers likely didn’t have super bow aspirations and they replaced 4! Offensive lineman, to protect their franchise QB.

The Chargers did not have as many other holes on their team as we did.

We added a $7.5 million free agent RT so, No, we obviously did not want our QB in the same position.

[fredtoast]

(02-22-2022, 04:04 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: You can’t get any stupider.

Yes you can.  

You can refer to signing a guy to a 5 year $80 million contract as just "signing a guard".

Or you can call spending $7.5 million on a free agent starter and using three draft picks as NOT investing ion the offensive line.

[fredtoast]

(02-22-2022, 03:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...like the Cowboys do it. But, smart teams don't.

Cowboys did not go "all in" in free agency last year when Dak was coming off an injury.

[Bengalbug]

(02-22-2022, 04:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes you can.  

You can refer to signing a guy to a 5 year $80 million contract as just "signing a guard".

Or you can call spending $7.5 million on a free agent starter and using three draft picks as NOT investing ion the offensive line.

Yep, you are right. And how many contributed in the playoffs? Please enlighten me.

Get out of here… reiff was a good value signing, I’ll give you that. But the draft was horrible. I know what you are doing right now and you look silly. Pretending that the bengals did a good job to address the OL is moronic.

[fredtoast]

(02-22-2022, 04:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Yep, you are right.  And how many contributed in the playoffs? Please enlighten me.  

Get out of here… reiff was a good value signing, I’ll give you that.  But the draft was horrible.  I know what you are doing right now and you look silly.  Pretending that the bengals did a good job to address the OL is moronic.

I never said they did a good job.  But at least I deal with facts instead of making stuff up to whine about like you do.

And anyone who judges NFL players based on their rookie seasons really doesn't know much about the NFL.  Would you like me to educate you with a list of dozens of really good NFL players who did nothing as a rookie?

[Bengalbug]

(02-22-2022, 04:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I never said they did a good job.  But at least I deal with facts instead of making stuff up to whine about like you do.

And anyone who judges NFL players based on their rookie seasons really doesn't know much about the NFL.  Would you like me to educate you with a list of dozens of really good NFL players who did nothing as a rookie?

So did they invest in their 2021 offensive line or not Fred? You keep waffling back and forth.

Of course drafting is for the future, but when your franchise QB comes off a torn ACL 4th and 6th round picks don’t cut it… you even said that.

So here we are again, you being you… twisting and turning everything into some sort of debate.

If the bengals had a decent OL to begin, they have time to develop 4th and 6th round picks, that just wasn’t the case last year or this year. So it’s time to invest in it. It’s not whining it’s facts.

If I said, bengals shouldn’t do anything to the OL, you would take the other end… “they need to do more!!!”. Your shtick is getting really old. Sorry.

[Bengalbug]

(02-22-2022, 04:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes you can.  

You can refer to signing a guy to a 5 year $80 million contract as just "signing a guard".

Or you can call spending $7.5 million on a free agent starter and using three draft picks as NOT investing ion the offensive line.

LOLOL, so let’s repeat a bad investment this year. Sounds great.

You could buy apple stock, which costs more, but also pays more profit in the long run. Or you can hope a penny stock takes off. Every once in a while it can happen.


And all I was saying about thuney, is they could have signed him. That is without a doubt a fact. I’m happy to meet in the middle and would love to see 2-3 above average OL come in, rather than one guy. But they signed a dude on the backend of his career who has had 2 healthy seasons his entire career, a project at G and two guys who could contribute in 2-4 years.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-22-2022, 05:02 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: LOLOL, so let’s repeat a bad investment this year.  Sounds great.  

You could buy apple stock, which costs more, but also pays more profit in the long run. Or you can hope a penny stock takes off.  Every once in a while it can happen.


And all I was saying about thuney, is they could have signed him.  That is without a doubt a fact.  I’m happy to meet in the middle and would love to see 2-3 above average OL come in, rather than one guy.  But they signed a dude on the backend of his career who has had 2 healthy seasons his entire career, a project at G and two guys who could contribute in 2-4 years.

A guy like Zeitler was only a $4 million cap hit this past season.

[fredtoast]

(02-22-2022, 05:02 PM)Bengalbug Wrote:  But they signed a dude on the backend of his career who has had 2 healthy seasons his entire career,

Reiff was only 32 and had missed a total of 9 games in 8 years. (and the one in 2020 was for Covid)

[fredtoast]

(02-22-2022, 05:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: A guy like Zeitler was only a $4 million cap hit this past season.

And this year the Ravens have multiple starters to replace in free agency (Calais Campbell, Justin Houston, Brandon Williams, Sammy Watkins, Patrick Ricard) and only $8 million in cap space. 

[*Synric*]

(02-22-2022, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And this year the Ravens have multiple starters to replace in free agency (Calais Campbell, Justin Houston, Brandon Williams, Sammy Watkins, Patrick Ricard) and only $8 million in cap space. 

Not to mention wanting to get a deal done with Lamar Jackson.

[Bengalbug]

(02-22-2022, 05:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And this year the Ravens have multiple starters to replace in free agency (Calais Campbell, Justin Houston, Brandon Williams, Sammy Watkins, Patrick Ricard) and only $8 million in cap space. 

The thing is, they will be active in FA and figure it out, with “only” 8 million.

[Bengalbug]

(02-22-2022, 05:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Reiff was only 32 and had played over 90% of the snaps for 8 straight years.

How can you miss 3 games (18.75% of the season) and play 90% of the snaps? Unless the 3 games he missed they had minimal offensive output.

Reiff wasn’t a bad signing. But for him to be the only signing, when you need immidiAte protection is the problem.

Had they coupled that with a few average IOL, that’s fine, instead they just ran it back with mostly the same motley cru

[fredtoast]

(02-22-2022, 05:35 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: The thing is, they will be active in FA and figure it out, with “only” 8 million.

They will "figure it out" by signing lesser talent.

Every year when free agency rolls around there is a long list of players called "cap casualties", and still people here claim that every other team in the league signs and keeps every player they want under the cap.  How are both of those things true?

[fredtoast]

(02-22-2022, 05:39 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: How can you miss 3 games (18.75% of the season) and play 90% of the snaps? Unless the 3 games he missed they had minimal offensive output.

My mistake.  I did not look at the numbers carefully.  he played over 90% of the snaps in the games he played.  So I am correcting that post. 

But he had only missed 9 games in 8 years, and the one from his last season with Minn (2020) was just for Covid protocol.