Easy answer to our short yardage probems.

[fredtoast]

Short yardage = 3rd or 4th down, 2 yd or less to go.

Bengals conversion rate running the ball... 55.2% (30th in league)
Bengals conversion rate throwing the ball. 72.0% (3rd in league)

Joe Burrow in short yardage situations... 16-19, 84.2%, 277 yds, 4 td, 0 int, 158.3 rating, 15 first downs.

But here is the most shocking stat.  With all the problems we had running the ball in these "short yardage situations" you would think we would have thrown the ball more often.  But Burrow's 19 attempts in "short yardage situation" ranked EIGHTEENTH in the league.  Lots of other coaches realize how easy it is to get 1 or 2 yards throwing the ball.

The World Champion Rams were one of the two teams in the league who were worse at converting short yardage situations running the ball.  In fact they were dead last in the league at 50%.  But Stafford's 30 pass attempts in short yardage situations were the third most in the league.

[SunsetBengal]

How did that work out in the final play of the Superbowl? At some point, a team just has to be able to line up and push the opposition back for a yard.

[BFritz21]

(02-25-2022, 09:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How did that work out in the final play of the Superbowl?  At some point, a team just has to be able to line up and push the opposition back for a yard.

Exactly. 

My thought was "put Joe under center and give the ball to Mixon running straight at the line and let him get the first."

I was disgusted when we handed Perine the ball from the gun on 3rd and 1 (might have been 4th & 1. I'm trying to play poker and think about football at the same time).

[Soonerpeace]

(02-25-2022, 09:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How did that work out in the final play of the Superbowl? At some point, a team just has to be able to line up and push the opposition back for a yard.

Ramping up the running game does so many things. It gets Chase and Higgins less double teams. Unleashes a real home run threat in Mixon. Helps in pass protection. It’s inhibited us forever

[KillerGoose]

(02-25-2022, 09:23 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Exactly. 

My thought was "put Joe under center and give the ball to Mixon running straight at the line and let him get the first."

I was disgusted when we handed Perine the ball from the gun on 3rd and 1 (might have been 4th & 1. I'm trying to play poker and think about football at the same time).

Running plays from the shotgun actually perform better in short-yardage situations than under center. The Bengals just stink at short yardage situations all around. 

[BFritz21]

(02-25-2022, 10:44 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Running plays from the shotgun actually perform better in short-yardage situations than under center. The Bengals just stink at short yardage situations all around. 

People say that but it absolutely defies logic.

How would giving a back the ball flat-footed be work better than giving him the ball with a head-start running towards the line?

Maybe if you have a decent offensive line because they can get a push and get to the second level to block linebackers, but we had no line so the running backs need momentum and the ability to make cuts at full speed.

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2022, 09:25 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Ramping up the running game does so many things. It gets Chase and Higgins less double teams. Unleashes a real home run threat in Mixon. Helps in pass protection. It’s inhibited us forever

There is a difference between "run blocking" and "short yardage run blocking".

I agree with the idea of "ramping up the running game" for the exact reasons you mention.  We might be able to create a lot of running lanes with our wide zone scheme and gain a lot of yards, but still not get better in the short yardage drive blocking scheme.

Would I prefer to be able to consistently run for 1-2 yards when we need to?  Of course.

But if we can't then we need to let Joe air it out much more often in those short yardage situations.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

RYAN JENSEN

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2022, 11:42 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: How would giving a back the ball flat-footed be work better than giving him the ball with a head-start running towards the line?

Doesn't matter when he gets the football.  If he starts from the same spot then he has the same momentum when he hits the line.

[NATI BENGALS]

We have to be able to QB sneak for 1 yard like Brady

[KillerGoose]

(02-25-2022, 11:42 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: People say that but it absolutely defies logic.

How would giving a back the ball flat-footed be work better than giving him the ball with a head-start running towards the line?

Maybe if you have a decent offensive line because they can get a push and get to the second level to block linebackers, but we had no line so the running backs need momentum and the ability to make cuts at full speed.

My best guess is some kind of formational or personnel ambiguity. There could be some situational noise but I’m not sure what it would be - the aggregate isn’t even close. Since 2010, shotgun runs in short yardage situations convert first downs at a 27% higher rate.

[pulses]

(02-25-2022, 09:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How did that work out in the final play of the Superbowl?  At some point, a team just has to be able to line up and push the opposition back for a yard.

Yep and fixing the OL will solve that problem for the most part.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-25-2022, 11:42 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: People say that but it absolutely defies logic.

How would giving a back the ball flat-footed be work better than giving him the ball with a head-start running towards the line?

Maybe if you have a decent offensive line because they can get a push and get to the second level to block linebackers, but we had no line so the running backs need momentum and the ability to make cuts at full speed.

When you're running toward the line (from snap under center), you get the ball 5 yards from the LoS, already running into an area where you have to make a split second decision...if you're even able to change direction when you make that decision.

When you're running the ball "flat footed" (from shotgun snap), you get the ball 4 yards from the LoS, but you have a split second longer to make a decision and your ability to cut and adjust are better than if you had been running toward the LoS.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

1 WR, 5 OL, 3 OL playing blocking TE, 1 OL playing FB, 1 RB taking a direct snap in the shotgun.

[BengalsBong]

(02-25-2022, 09:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How did that work out in the final play of the Superbowl?  At some point, a team just has to be able to line up and push the opposition back for a yard.

I agree we need to have the option of picking up the first down with the run or the pass keep them guessing. I do like the idea of passing more often in short yardage, but you must be able to run it as well. Improve the O-line and you fix this issue.

[jfkbengals]

(02-25-2022, 09:15 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How did that work out in the final play of the Superbowl?  At some point, a team just has to be able to line up and push the opposition back for a yard.

Or at least stand your ground to allow the back to cleanly reach the LOS.

[jfkbengals]

(02-26-2022, 08:09 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: If it's so easy I guess Fredtoast should be the HC of the Cincinnati Bengals.  THE COACHES HAVE WITNESSED THESE PLAYERS DURING THOUSANDS OF PRACTICESNAPS.  ANYONE WHO QUESTIONS THE COACHES OR WHO SNIPS THEIR YAPS IN RETORT DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.  

If the coaches call a run, it's because they're godlike creatures.  If the owners hire those coaches to call a run, it's because the fans have an IQ of 40. 

Looks like someone picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue...

[BFritz21]

(02-26-2022, 12:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Doesn't matter when he gets the football.  If he starts from the same spot then he has the same momentum when he hits the line.

But he starts a second later, so, yes, it does matter.

It's common sense.

(02-26-2022, 02:07 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: When you're running toward the line (from snap under center), you get the ball 5 yards from the LoS, already running into an area where you have to make a split second decision...if you're even able to change direction when you make that decision.

When you're running the ball "flat footed" (from shotgun snap), you get the ball 4 yards from the LoS, but you have a split second longer to make a decision and your ability to cut and adjust are better than if you had been running toward the LoS.

But the linemen are already getting a push into the backfield and the linebackers are closer to the line. 

It also leaves less room for error from the defenders because they back is running faster.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-26-2022, 03:51 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: But he starts a second later, so, yes, it does matter.

It's common sense.




But the linemen are already getting a push into the backfield and the linebackers are closer to the line. 

It also leaves less room for error from the defenders because they back is running faster.

It may take a bit longer to get up to speed but if the line is getting pushed back there is more time to make decisions and cuts. We all have our preferences but stats back up that shotgun is more effective.

[fredtoast]

(02-26-2022, 04:37 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: but stats back up that shotgun is more effective.

Some people prefer "common sense" to actual facts and production.

And you will never change their mind.