Worth Moving Hopkins Back to OG?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(02-25-2022, 07:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Exactly.  Frank Pollack seems to be a decent coach, so let's get him some better raw materials to work with.

Frank Pollack has definitely improved the run game but the pass protection remains a pressing issue.

[*psychdoctor*]

I don't have the numbers, but Hopkins did not get much vertical movement as RG. His pass pro has been average at Center and RG. I am not certain but I don't think he took many reps if at all at LG.

I think Bengals need to cut Hopkins. Bengals need that stud at Center.

Jensen is costly but a stud. Bozeman has potential but it would be a lateral move in production between he and Hopkins. I think Bozeman has better potential. My worry on Bozeman is that he is on the ground too much.

Daniels was moved from his natural position as a center to guard. Daniels is young, has length and is very good at redirecting his opponent along the line. I don't know if he would be better moving back to center or stay at guard. He and Jensen will cost some money.

I really like Tomlinson. He is a beast at guard but I don't know if 49ers will let him go.

Bottom line with Hopkins, he has a year left on 6 mil contact but he wasn't good enough in my opinion. Neither has Jonah Williams and his 10 sacks (including sacks through playoffs). It simply is not good enough.

Fans think Bengals can throw money and fix the OL like they did with defense. It will not happen. Bengals will be able to sign maybe 3 players of mid tier and only 2 players near top tier. They have to roll money over to sign Burrow.

I think they may do is trade for OT, sign 2 IOL via FA, and draft Zion Johnson.

[*SHRacerX*]

I voted G because of the possibility to draft Lindenbaum. Hopkins, in his 2nd year after surgery, is a massive upgrade over the other guys as of right now. I think Smith and Adeniji are tackles and Carman needs to figure out consistency and a work ethic. I am not giving up on the guy in any way, though.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-01-2022, 06:38 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I voted G because of the possibility to draft Lindenbaum.  Hopkins, in his 2nd year after surgery, is a massive upgrade over the other guys as of right now.  I think Smith and Adeniji are tackles and Carman needs to figure out consistency and a work ethic.  I am not giving up on the guy in any way, though.

This would normally be the way of it if Hop played as good at Guard as he did Center.

When I have watched Hopkins play Guard he has been bad. Don't know why he plays so much better at Center but he does.

If Linderbaum falls to us it is a no brainer though, I see some mocks have teams passing on him cause he is undersized.

Sounds good to me, take him. On the field he was by far the best Center in college last year don't care if he is a smaller Center.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-01-2022, 06:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: This would normally be the way of it if Hop played as good at Guard as he did Center.

When I have watched Hopkins play Guard he has been bad. Don't know why he plays so much better at Center but he does.

If Linderbaum falls to us it is a no brainer though, I see some mocks have teams passing on him cause he is undersized.

Sounds good to me, take him. On the field he was by far the best Center in college last year don't care if he is a smaller Center.

I hear ya, Nate, but I disagree on Hopkins....He was a very solid guard.  And RG would be ideal for him now...

Athleticism is an underrated quality in interior linemen.  Pouncey was a top Center and didn't weigh 300 lbs.  From everything I have seen, Lindenbaum is an elite prospect.  Him under Center and Hopkins at RG with a FA tackle like Armstead makes this team a Super Bowl Champ...not just a contender.  

And FWIW, with all the turmoil around the league for QBs, and the cap issues facing some teams, I think the Bengals have a real shot even without a massive overhaul on the line.  But I still hope it happens. 

[ezekiel23]

First up,The Bengals need to go after an elite LT in free agency,then move Jonah Williams to RT.Resign Spain at LG,and keep Hopkins at Center.When healthy,Hopkins is a good,not great center.Then,last but not least,You go after an Elite RG in free agency.It’s going to get pretty expensive going after pro bowl caliber LT and RG,but I think the Bengals can pull it off if they’re determined to do it.It May involve some trades,or giving up some draft picks,but at this point,who cares.

Joe Burrow was sacked 51 times in the regular season.Led the NFL.Was sacked 19 times in postseason season,for an NFL record of 70 total sacks.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-01-2022, 06:59 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I hear ya, Nate, but I disagree on Hopkins....He was a very solid guard.  And RG would be ideal for him now...

Athleticism is an underrated quality in interior linemen.  Pouncey was a top Center and didn't weigh 300 lbs.  From everything I have seen, Lindenbaum is an elite prospect.  Him under Center and Hopkins at RG with a FA tackle like Armstead makes this team a Super Bowl Champ...not just a contender.  

And FWIW, with all the turmoil around the league for QBs, and the cap issues facing some teams, I think the Bengals have a real shot even without a massive overhaul on the line.  But I still hope it happens. 

Definitely would be awesome to get both Armstead (if he can stay healthy) and Linderbaum. I just think we can do much better
than what I have seen from Hop at RG. Heck I have more faith in Carman there than Hop from what I have seen. I would like to 
get James Daniels and Trent Brown if we are going for youth along with Linderbaum and I think this would be a SB Champ OL.

Armstead is older than Trent Brown by like 4 years, I know Trent has had problems being motivated but that might change with 
him coming over to block for Burrow.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-01-2022, 07:15 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: First up,The Bengals need to go after an elite LT in free agency,then move Jonah Williams to RT.Resign Spain at LG,and keep Hopkins at Center.When healthy,Hopkins is a good,not great center.Then,last but not least,You go after an Elite RG in free agency.It’s going to get pretty expensive going after pro bowl caliber LT and RG,but I think the Bengals can pull it off if they’re determined to do it.It May involve some trades,or  giving up some draft picks,but at this point,who cares.

Joe Burrow was sacked 51 times in the regular season.Led the NFL.Was sacked 19 times in postseason season,for an NFL record of 70 total sacks.

This could work as Jonah has played RT and seems to fit there. Might take some pressure off of him with a switch. Laramy Tunsil
would be a thought to trade for a LT. If we keep Hopkins I like him at Center myself, not Guard. Trade for Tunsil, move Jonah to RT,
add James Daniels to RG could definitely work.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-01-2022, 07:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Definitely would be awesome to get both Armstead (if he can stay healthy) and Linderbaum. I just think we can do much better
than what I have seen from Hop at RG. Heck I have more faith in Carman there than Hop from what I have seen. I would like to 
get James Daniels and Trent Brown if we are going for youth along with Linderbaum and I think this would be a SB Champ OL.

Armstead is older than Trent Brown by like 4 years, I know Trent has had problems being motivated but that might change with 
him coming over to block for Burrow.

I had not heard that.  I sure don't want to break the chemistry of this group with a vet that is just drawing a check.  Not saying he is that, but you get what I am saying.  The fit has to match the talent. 

Carman is only 21 and has serious strength and upside, but I don't know about his development.  He seems to be a bit stubborn as though he has always done it this way and has been viewed as a very good lineman.  I question his work ethic and desire more than his outright talent, and that is too bad because he has flashed massive potential, but there is nothing more detrimental to a young talent than a lack of desire or coachability.  

[TecmoBengals]

(03-02-2022, 09:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I had not heard that.  I sure don't want to break the chemistry of this group with a vet that is just drawing a check.  Not saying he is that, but you get what I am saying.  The fit has to match the talent. 

Carman is only 21 and has serious strength and upside, but I don't know about his development.  He seems to be a bit stubborn as though he has always done it this way and has been viewed as a very good lineman.  I question his work ethic and desire more than his outright talent, and that is too bad because he has flashed massive potential, but there is nothing more detrimental to a young talent than a lack of desire or coachability.  

This page mentions Brown's motivational pitfalls: https://www.nfl.com/news/top-101-nfl-free-agents-of-2022-who-are-the-best-nfl-players-available

Quote:He’s a Pro Bowl, field-tilting talent if he’s healthy, if he’s motivated, if he’s with Bill Belichick. He has more value to the Patriots than anyone else -- and even for New England, he’s a big risk. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-02-2022, 10:02 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: This page mentions Brown's motivational pitfalls: https://www.nfl.com/news/top-101-nfl-free-agents-of-2022-who-are-the-best-nfl-players-available

I was talking about Armstead.  I knew this about Brown...(still wanted him over the lame ass LB from Texas we took).  

[TecmoBengals]

(03-02-2022, 10:11 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I was talking about Armstead.  I knew this about Brown...(still wanted him over the lame ass LB from Texas we took).  

Oops, my bad. I wonder if the Armstead comments stem from his injury history? Maybe there is talk he could get back on the field sooner, but he uses the injury as an excuse when it's really lack of motivation? No idea, I'm just speculating.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-02-2022, 09:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I had not heard that.  I sure don't want to break the chemistry of this group with a vet that is just drawing a check.  Not saying he is that, but you get what I am saying.  The fit has to match the talent. 

Carman is only 21 and has serious strength and upside, but I don't know about his development.  He seems to be a bit stubborn as though he has always done it this way and has been viewed as a very good lineman.  I question his work ethic and desire more than his outright talent, and that is too bad because he has flashed massive potential, but there is nothing more detrimental to a young talent than a lack of desire or coachability.  

Was there some interview or something that gave you that impression?

I would assume/hope the Bengals asked questions with all the draft picks leading up to the draft to ask them about their coaching style preference, how they best learn, etc.

[JungleRock85]

I am good with releasing him and using that 7 million dollars elsewhere but I am also comfortable with him playing one more year as the starting Center. Coming off the injury took him a while to get back to form but he played well most of the 2nd half of the season. If we upgrade around him he will be fine. I don't like moving him to Guard because that just doesn't seem like a move a team that was so close to winning the Super Bowl should have to make. If he is kept as depth whatever but I do not want him penciled in as a starting guard.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Hobson said if Bengals sign a premier LT Jonah would more than likely move to LG. RT doesnt seem to be a option
So we would have a potential starting line up of Armstead LT Jonah LG Jensen C Daniels RG Moses RT. not resigning others and releasing Waynes their should be enough money.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-02-2022, 11:29 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: Hobson said if Bengals sign a premier LT Jonah would more than likely move to LG. RT doesnt seem to be a option
So we would have a potential starting line up of Armstead  LT Jonah LG Jensen C Daniels RG Moses RT. not resigning others and releasing Waynes their should be enough money.

Keep in mind that that would leave the defense heavily depleted.
3 DL are hitting FA: Ogunjobi, Hill, Tupou
1 LB hitting FA: Evans
5 DBs are hitting FA/retired: Bates, Allen, Apple, Phillips, Flowers
Remove Waynes and that's 6 DBs to worry about replacing.
Note that I'm perfectly in agreement with moving on from Waynes, but the Bengals can't just address the defense with draft picks or super cheap FAs.
They'll need a CB2, CB4, CB5, FS1, SS2.
You also need to worry about starting TE.

So yes, while they could have enough money to sign 3 new OL, they do have a lot of other positions to worry about too.
I think Bengals only have room to maybe get two new OL starters in FA unless they look to cut Waynes and Hopkins/Boyd. Maybe all three if that's what it takes to really upgrade the OL while keeping the defense mostly intact.
I'm ok with trying to get a starter or two from the draft, but you can't bank on more rookie starters than that.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-02-2022, 09:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I had not heard that.  I sure don't want to break the chemistry of this group with a vet that is just drawing a check.  Not saying he is that, but you get what I am saying.  The fit has to match the talent. 

Carman is only 21 and has serious strength and upside, but I don't know about his development.  He seems to be a bit stubborn as though he has always done it this way and has been viewed as a very good lineman.  I question his work ethic and desire more than his outright talent, and that is too bad because he has flashed massive potential, but there is nothing more detrimental to a young talent than a lack of desire or coachability.  

I was talking about Trent Brown with the motivation question, not Armstead. The question with Armstead is injury history.

Hope that isn't the case with Carman, don't think it is. He seems like a team player all the way. I just think he needs to really
work on his hand placement. He has had a little trouble with penalties cause of this and he gets beaten in pass rushing situations
cause of it. One he gets his hands on dudes in the run game though it is over and I would of started him for this very reason the
entire Playoffs and the Superbowl over Adeniji who just sucks and plays on roller skates.

(03-02-2022, 11:19 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Was there some interview or something that gave you that impression?

I would assume/hope the Bengals asked questions with all the draft picks leading up to the draft to ask them about their coaching style preference, how they best learn, etc.

Wondering the same. Never heard about Carman being stubborn.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-02-2022, 11:23 AM)JungleRock85 Wrote: I am good with releasing him and using that 7 million dollars elsewhere but I am also comfortable with him playing one more year as the starting Center. Coming off the injury took him a while to get back to form but he played well most of the 2nd half of the season. If we upgrade around him he will be fine. I don't like moving him to Guard because that just doesn't seem like a move a team that was so close to winning the Super Bowl should have to make. If he is kept as depth whatever but I do not want him penciled in as a starting guard.

Same here. Would be fine with keeping Hop at Center and bringing in Laken Tomlinson at LG, Austin Corbett at RG and Morgan
Moses at RT. This could really help out Hop specifically, he played really well in the Playoffs for having poor play on both sides of
him. Spain even played poorly in the playoffs and in the SB.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(03-02-2022, 11:41 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Keep in mind that that would leave the defense heavily depleted.
3 DL are hitting FA: Ogunjobi, Hill, Tupou
1 LB hitting FA: Evans
5 DBs are hitting FA/retired: Bates, Allen, Apple, Phillips, Flowers
Remove Waynes and that's 6 DBs to worry about replacing.
Note that I'm perfectly in agreement with moving on from Waynes, but the Bengals can't just address the defense with draft picks or super cheap FAs.
They'll need a CB2, CB4, CB5, FS1, SS2.
You also need to worry about starting TE.

So yes, while they could have enough money to sign 3 new OL, they do have a lot of other positions to worry about too.
I think Bengals only have room to maybe get two new OL starters in FA unless they look to cut Waynes and Hopkins/Boyd. Maybe all three if that's what it takes to really upgrade the OL while keeping the defense mostly intact.
I'm ok with trying to get a starter or two from the draft, but you can't bank on more rookie starters than that.

we keep Bates use our first round pick on a decent DT prospect. resign Apple he should be cheap Everything else is depth pieces for draft and cheap Free agents

[*ochocincos*]

(03-02-2022, 05:45 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: we keep Bates use our first round pick on a decent DT prospect. resign Apple he should be cheap Everything else is depth pieces for draft and cheap Free agents

Just so I'm not misinterpreting, you're saying the Bengals should allow Hill and Ogunjobi to walk and draft a DT in Rd 1 to be the starter next to Reader, correct?