Breaking down the cap

[Bengalholic]

After re-signing Jalen Davis, they have around 48m in cap space. I just wanted to take a quick look at how much might be spent to re-sign their own and how much would possibly be available to bring in outside free agents. Although this is just guesswork, I tried to break it down as reasonably as possible with re-signing and cap numbers.

Cut- Trae Waynes
Saves almost 10.9m...with the total cap space at 58.9.

ERFA's - Wilcox, Ray, Johnston, Irwin, Bachie
Not sure if they'll tender all of them, but let's say they bring back 3. That's 2.685.

Franchise Tag - Bates
Seems like that where it's heading, so that adds another 12.9m and the total now is 15.585m. 
That's leaves around 43.3m to re-sign their own guys and sign outside free agents. 

FA's they'll most likely want to re-sign
Hill and/or Ogunjobi 
Uzomah
Thomas wr
Flowers
Harris
Tupou
Morgan

Let's say the re-sign Hill, CJ, Thomas, Flowers, Tupou, Morgan and Harris...that's probably around 21.5m, leaving about 22m to re-sign any of the maybe guys and for outside players. 

Trey Hopkins also gives them an additional 6m if cut, which would help offset upgrading at C.

Maybe/Maybe Not
Spain
Reiff
Allen
Thomas s
Huber
Apple
Evans

Gone
Johnson
Hargreaves
Phillips
Tate

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

https://overthecap.com/calculator/cincinnati-bengals/

Interactive cap calculator. You would be surprised who the Bengals can afford with that much cap space.

[Soonerpeace]

(03-03-2022, 02:29 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: After re-signing Jalen Davis, they have around 48m in cap space. I just wanted to take a quick look at how much might be spent to re-sign their own and how much would possibly be available to bring in outside free agents. Although this is just guesswork, I tried to break it down as reasonably as possible with re-signing and cap numbers.

Cut- Trae Waynes
Saves almost 10.9m...with the total cap space at 58.9.

ERFA's - Wilcox, Ray, Johnston, Irwin, Bachie
Not sure if they'll tender all of them, but let's say they bring back 3. That's 2.685.

Franchise Tag - Bates
Seems like that where it's heading, so that adds another 12.9m and the total now is 15.585m.
That's leaves around 43.3m to re-sign their own guys and sign outside free agents.

FA's they'll most likely want to re-sign
Hill and/or Ogunjobi
Uzomah
Thomas wr
Flowers
Harris
Tupou
Morgan

Let's say the re-sign Hill, CJ, Thomas, Flowers, Tupou, Morgan and Harris...that's probably around 21.5m, leaving about 21.8m to re-sign any of the maybe guys and for outside players.

Trey Hopkins also gives them an additional 6m if cut, which would help offset upgrading at C.

Maybe/Maybe Not
Spain
Reiff
Allen
Thomas s
Huber
Apple
Evans

Gone
Johnson
Hargreaves
Phillips
Tate

Great job and why they won’t sink a lot of money in a FA tackle. One thing you didn’t allow for is hold back. I think they held back around 7 million last year for the season transactions

[Bengalholic]

(03-03-2022, 03:41 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: https://overthecap.com/calculator/cincinnati-bengals/

Interactive cap calculator. You would be surprised who the Bengals can afford with that much cap space.

Yeah, I've used theirs and the Spotrac version.

[J24]

Is Topou a restricted or free agent? Over the cap say he his but sportratic says he is Unrestricted.

[Bengalholic]

(03-03-2022, 04:00 PM)J24 Wrote: Is Topou a restricted or free agent? Over the cap say he his but sportratic says he is Unrestricted.

Yeah, I thought he was restricted. Guess not though. I'll have to edit the OP later.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

I don't like the thought of tagging Bates. Would rather give him an extension or let him go.

If we bring in a top Center we can cut Hop so it would be affordable and we can add a FA RT like Morgan Moses.

Easier to find competition with rookie Guards than OT's. Expecting a rookie to start at RT I think would be a huge mistake.

[WeezyBengal]

(03-03-2022, 04:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't like the thought of tagging Bates. Would rather give him an extension or let him go.

If we bring in a top Center we can cut Hop so it would be affordable and we can add a FA RT like Morgan Moses.

Easier to find competition with rookie Guards than OT's. Expecting a rookie to start at RT I think would be a huge mistake.

You'd rather let him go than give him the tag? In what world does that make sense? 

The guy is going to get tagged and its honestly the right move (IF he's asking for too much). He doesn't have any leverage and the Bengals are playing this smart. They can always re-sign him once hes tagged as well, remember. There is 0% chance he's not on this team next year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2022, 04:29 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You'd rather let him go than give him the tag? In what world does that make sense? 

I want the OL upgraded no matter what it costs. Would suck to lose Bates but the tag costs lots of money and he didn't play 
well early last season when he was thinking about not getting a big contract. Could happen again with the tag.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-03-2022, 03:54 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, I've used theirs and the Spotrac version.

As an example, PFF projects RG James Daniels at 5 years, 50 million, and I don't remember the guaranteed figure.

I can make that work with cap hits of 7M/10.5M/10.5M/10.5M/11.5M.  Guarantee the first 3 years would equal $36M in guarantees so he would receive at least 72% of the contract which is a good deal for him (and his agent.) And if the Bengals needed to release him in the 5th year there would only be $4M in dead money and a $7.5M cap savings. And as you can tell the consistent cap hits the Bengals aren't pushing cap space into future years to create a problem down the road. And it equals a $10M average per year which would be #5 for RGs . . .this year. That contract won't stay Top 5.

They can afford several upgrades unless the contracts get more ridiculous than usual.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-03-2022, 04:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't like the thought of tagging Bates. Would rather give him an extension or let him go.

If we bring in a top Center we can cut Hop so it would be affordable and we can add a FA RT like Morgan Moses.

Easier to find competition with rookie Guards than OT's. Expecting a rookie to start at RT I think would be a huge mistake.

I would prefer to sign him long term, but it will take something like 4 years and $60M to do it. I wouldn't pay him CB money. I wouldn't tag him, either.  I would sign a middling vet or someone who needs a one year prove it deal as a one year place holder and hope to draft someone like Jaquan Brisker who might be the opening day starter, but if he isn't ready you got a vet who can at least hold down the fort until he is ready.

[J24]

(03-03-2022, 04:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I want the OL upgraded no matter what it costs. Would suck to lose Bates but the tag costs lots of money and he didn't play 
well early last season when he was thinking about not getting a big contract. Could happen again with the tag.

I don’t  get the  reasoning behind  letting Bates go. He was our best defender in the post season(all pro caliber), he is a team leader,  and has missed only 1 meaningful game in his career .
Everyone  acts like he will be easy  to replace but that just seems very silly to think that we can draft an all pro caliber player at 31 or later.

Also here's  the thing about the offense line. We don't need it to be great it just  can't suck like it did in the Playoffs. Burrow can help make the Offensive Line better  he can't do that for the defense. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-03-2022, 05:11 PM)J24 Wrote: I don’t  get the  reasoning behind  letting Bates go. He was our best defender in the post season(all pro caliber), he is a team leader,  and has missed only 1 meaningful game in his career .
Everyone  acts like he will be easy  to replace but that just seems very silly to think that we can draft an all pro caliber player at 31 or later.

Also here's  the thing about the offense line. We don't need it to be great it just  can't suck like it did in the Playoffs. Burrow can help make the Offensive Line better  he can't do that for the defense. 

His play has been up and down and it will take about an average of $15M/year to re-sign him.  I wouldn't re-sign a FS to CB money.

[WeezyBengal]

(03-03-2022, 04:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I want the OL upgraded no matter what it costs. Would suck to lose Bates but the tag costs lots of money and he didn't play 
well early last season when he was thinking about not getting a big contract. Could happen again with the tag.

You can do both. 

[fredtoast]

(03-03-2022, 04:45 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: As an example, PFF projects RG James Daniels at 5 years, 50 million, and I don't remember the guaranteed figure.

I can make that work with cap hits of 7M/10.5M/10.5M/10.5M/11.5M.  Guarantee the first 3 years would equal $36M in guarantees so he would receive at least 72% of the contract which is a good deal for him (and his agent.) And if the Bengals needed to release him in the 5th year there would only be $4M in dead money and a $7.5M cap savings. And as you can tell the consistent cap hits the Bengals aren't pushing cap space into future years to create a problem down the road. And it equals a $10M average per year which would be #5 for RGs . . .this year. That contract won't stay Top 5.

They can afford several upgrades unless the contracts get more ridiculous than usual.

This.

He wouldn't care about a $3 million salary his first year because he actually gets paid $23 million with the bonus. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-03-2022, 05:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

He wouldn't care about a $3 million salary his first year because he actually gets paid $23 million with the bonus. 

That's right. He gets a $20M signing bonus up front and his $3M salary for the first year=$23M. Cap hit is $7M.

Salary goes from $3M to $4.5M to $5.5M to $6.5M to $7.5M.  Roster bonus $2M second year, $1M third year. Keeps the cap hit fairly consistent and reduces the dead money in the last year if they want to release him. Guarantee the first three years and he'll receive the roster bonuses. Largest cap hit is $11.5M

[fredtoast]

(03-03-2022, 06:10 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:  Largest cap hit is $11.5M

And that is 5 years in the future when the cap will be so big Punters will be making $11.5 million a year.



Seriously, though, it will be a MUCH smaller percentage of the cap than it is now.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-03-2022, 04:50 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I would prefer to sign him long term, but it will take something like 4 years and $60M to do it. I wouldn't pay him CB money. I wouldn't tag him, either.  I would sign a middling vet or someone who needs a one year prove it deal as a one year place holder and hope to draft someone like Jaquan Brisker who might be the opening day starter, but if he isn't ready you got a vet who can at least hold down the fort until he is ready.

This is what I am saying, love Bates but if it costs 60 mil for 4 years that is too much when we need the OL fortified
more than anything. If we can get that number down a bit and still afford the OL even better. Love Brisker myself if 
we let Bates go for top 5 Safety money.

(03-03-2022, 05:11 PM)J24 Wrote: I don’t  get the  reasoning behind  letting Bates go. He was our best defender in the post season(all pro caliber), he is a team leader,  and has missed only 1 meaningful game in his career .
Everyone  acts like he will be easy  to replace but that just seems very silly to think that we can draft an all pro caliber player at 31 or later.

Also here's  the thing about the offense line. We don't need it to be great it just  can't suck like it did in the Playoffs. Burrow can help make the Offensive Line better  he can't do that for the defense. 

I definitely don't think Bates will be easy to replace. I want him back, but I don't want him discouraged cause we tagged 
him instead of extended him either. The way he played early last season makes me think this could happen.

(03-03-2022, 05:38 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: You can do both. 

Hope so, that is what I want the most.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-03-2022, 04:45 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: As an example, PFF projects RG James Daniels at 5 years, 50 million, and I don't remember the guaranteed figure.

I can make that work with cap hits of 7M/10.5M/10.5M/10.5M/11.5M.  Guarantee the first 3 years would equal $36M in guarantees so he would receive at least 72% of the contract which is a good deal for him (and his agent.) And if the Bengals needed to release him in the 5th year there would only be $4M in dead money and a $7.5M cap savings. And as you can tell the consistent cap hits the Bengals aren't pushing cap space into future years to create a problem down the road. And it equals a $10M average per year which would be #5 for RGs . . .this year. That contract won't stay Top 5.

They can afford several upgrades unless the contracts get more ridiculous than usual.

The new $10b/yr broadcast money deal starts kicking in 2023. It's projected to raise the cap to $225m in 2023 and $256m in 2024. There will be money in the future. Spend what you can now before it devalues.

[Rubekahn29]

It’s that time of the year where some will say we have infinite cap space and others will make it appear as if we are in the negative. It’s a fun time to be alive.