SI.com - FA OL Scheme Fits

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2022, 03:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: That would be best case.

I don't know. I'd be happy with 2 of those guys. All 3 would be amazing.

Same Pistons. Hope it goes somewhat like either of those scenarios.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-11-2022, 03:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: So many options we could go. Wild how there was an article saying we are interested in Bozeman as he doesn't seem to
fit our scheme at all. Daniels I think fits what we need more than anyone though as he can play all the interior positions
and is athletic and can get to the 2nd level very well. I think Carman is going to start at LG this year so Daniels fits more
than Laken who has been playing LG.

We could keep Hop but I agree with others that Jensen can play Center and gives us that edge Pollack says he wants in a
glass eater type. Morgan Moses fits and should be a cheaper option than most OT's as he didn't start last year early but
filled in admirably and he would be a nice vet to pickup

Predicting Jensen, Daniels and Moses in Free Agency. Sure hope it goes this way too.

We could also trade for Collins and keep Hop. Hop, Daniels and Collins if this is the case and I would also be fine with it.

Daniels has some of the best athleticism out of all the upcoming FA OL.
However, he is on the lower end when it comes to getting push in the run game and keeping bigger, stronger defenders at bay.
That's typically the price you pay. It's very rare to find someone who is both very athletic but also very strong and stout. Usually it's either or.

[casear2727]

(03-11-2022, 04:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Daniels has some of the best athleticism out of all the upcoming FA OL.
However, he is on the lower end when it comes to getting push in the run game and keeping bigger, stronger defenders at bay.
That's typically the price you pay. It's very rare to find someone who is both very athletic but also very strong and stout. Usually it's either or.

Very true.  Not sure how the guy plays guard under 300 pounds....?

[*bfine32*]

A coach adjusts players to fit his scheme. A great coach adjusts his scheme to fit his players. Pollack is both the Oline coordinator and run game coordinator. Give him the best we can afford and design around them.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2022, 04:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Daniels has some of the best athleticism out of all the upcoming FA OL.
However, he is on the lower end when it comes to getting push in the run game and keeping bigger, stronger defenders at bay.
That's typically the price you pay. It's very rare to find someone who is both very athletic but also very strong and stout. Usually it's either or.

Yes, if there is a reason we don't sign Daniels it is because Pollack wants someone stronger and more physical like Jensen or one
of the more physical Guards like Scherff, Cappa or Tomlinson.

(03-11-2022, 04:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A coach adjusts players to fit his scheme. A great coach adjusts his scheme to fit his players. Pollack is both the Oline coordinator and run game coordinator. Give him the best we can afford and design around them.

Agree with this, just get the best guys out there that fit somewhat. Us supposedly being interested in Bozeman should lead 
most to believe that this is the way Pollack and the FO are going to go about FA. We will see. Just because Bozeman hasn't
been asked to block in a wide zone as much doesn't mean he can't.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-11-2022, 07:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, if there is a reason we don't sign Daniels it is because Pollack wants someone stronger and more physical like Jensen or one
of the more physical Guards like Scherff, Cappa or Tomlinson.


Agree with this, just get the best guys out there that fit somewhat. Us supposedly being interested in Bozeman should lead 
most to believe that this is the way Pollack and the FO are going to go about FA. We will see. Just because Bozeman hasn't
been asked to block in a wide zone as much doesn't mean he can't.

Personally, I don't believe that being true at all.
Bengals often don't leak who they are targeting in FA.
Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me.

[casear2727]

(03-11-2022, 07:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, if there is a reason we don't sign Daniels it is because Pollack wants someone stronger and more physical like Jensen or one
of the more physical Guards like Scherff, Cappa or Tomlinson.


Agree with this, just get the best guys out there that fit somewhat. Us supposedly being interested in Bozeman should lead 
most to believe that this is the way Pollack and the FO are going to go about FA. We will see. Just because Bozeman hasn't
been asked to block in a wide zone as much doesn't mean he can't.

Another reason we dont sign these guys is they dont like to spend money on guards.  Norwell on a discount or Pollack believing he can coach up C Williams.

Schreff is out due to age and money, possibly the same for Tomlinson. Corbett is best fit, but still more than they want to pay.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2022, 07:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Personally, I don't believe that being true at all.
Bengals often don't leak who they are targeting in FA.
Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me.

Could be, they are all rumors until it actually happens.

(03-11-2022, 07:58 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Another reason we dont sign these guys is they dont like to spend money on guards.  Norwell on a discount or Pollack believing he can coach up C Williams.

Schreff is out due to age and money, possibly the same for Tomlinson. Corbett is best fit, but still more than they want to pay.

That needs to change. Daniels isn't just a Guard though, he is a Center to boot and RG was our worst position on the 
team last season. I do think we can find a Guard in the Draft much easier than a RT though which I find essential in 
this FA with this Draft that after the first few OT's it really dries up as far as opening day starters.

[pulses]

(03-11-2022, 01:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Mike Santagata from SI.com just released an article on a wide array of FA OL and listed their pros, cons, and rated their scheme fit 1-10.
https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/film-breakdown-cincinnati-bengals-offensive-line-fit-free-agency

Some noteworthy players that have been mentioned a lot on these boards:

• Ryan Jensen - 7/10 scheme fit
• Laken Tomlinson - 8
• Austin Corbett - 7.5
• Andrew Norwell - 5 (would rate higher if there is a priority on pass blocking)
• Trent Brown - 5
• Morgan Moses - 8
• Connor Williams - 8
• Spain - 5
• Bradley Bozeman - 3
• James Daniels - 7.5
• Brian Allen - 7.5
  

There were two perfect fits in Terron Armstead and Brandon Scherff, but both will be "very" expensive, so neither is likely.

From those give me Tomlinson and Daniels

[casear2727]

(03-11-2022, 08:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Could be, they are all rumors until it actually happens.


That needs to change. Daniels isn't just a Guard though, he is a Center to boot and RG was our worst position on the 
team last season. I do think we can find a Guard in the Draft much easier than a RT though which I find essential in 
this FA with this Draft that after the first few OT's it really dries up as far as opening day starters.

They just dont pay big money to guards and this free agency for tackle is kind of bare.

Armstead is most likely out of the question.
D Brown way too old.
Moses is old (for Bengals)
Fischer (old)

TBrown, not elite too expensive? and he's already 29
Reiff is old and may retire.

Ifedi is unproven but only 27 and affordable.


Elite
Tunsil is great, only 10M guaranteed money but 18M per season for 2 years, some red flags, minimum 1st Rd pick to acquire

Collins is great, same age as Tunsil 27/28, zero guaranteed money, 10M per year for 3 seasons, more red flags, unsure of acquisition cost but most likely less than Tunsil.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2022, 08:20 PM)casear2727 Wrote: They just dont pay big money to guards and this free agency for tackle is kind of bare.

Armstead is most likely out of the question.
D Brown way too old.
Moses is old (for Bengals)
Fischer (old)

TBrown, not elite too expensive? and he's already 29
Reiff is old and may retire.

Ifedi is unproven but only 27 and affordable.


Elite
Tunsil is great, only 10M guaranteed money but 18M per season for 2 years, some red flags, minimum 1st Rd pick to acquire

Collins is great, same age as Tunsil 27/28, zero guaranteed money, 10M per year for 3 seasons, more red flags, unsure of acquisition cost but most likely less than Tunsil.

Like I said, that needs to change. We need to start paying Guards if we want to win the whole thing. RT is the biggest need
thought this FA with the lack of RT's we would be able to get in the Draft. None will be day one starters that we Draft most
likely.

Moses is younger than Reiff was last year when we brought Reiff in and is solid. He makes sense and shouldn't break the bank
on a 2 year deal. Same with Trent Brown who is even a couple years younger than Moses and is probably the more talented OT.

Ifedi also makes sense but it isn't like he is great or anything. Still, would be an upgrade and could get better being he is young.

Tunsil and Collins, out of the picture cause of character most likely. This staff likes leaders and captains.

[pulses]

(03-11-2022, 04:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Very true.  Not sure how the guy plays guard under 300 pounds....?

He doesn't He is 327 now.




https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaniJa01.htm

[casear2727]

(03-11-2022, 08:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Like I said, that needs to change. We need to start paying Guards if we want to win the whole thing. RT is the biggest need
thought this FA with the lack of RT's we would be able to get in the Draft. None will be day one starters that we Draft most
likely.

Moses is younger than Reiff was last year when we brought Reiff in and is solid. He makes sense and shouldn't break the bank
on a 2 year deal. Same with Trent Brown who is even a couple years younger than Moses and is probably the more talented OT.

Ifedi also makes sense but it isn't like he is great or anything. Still, would be an upgrade and could get better being he is young.

Tunsil and Collins, out of the picture cause of character most likely. This staff likes leaders and captains.

I dont disagree, and I'll play a little devil's advocate so you can make a recommendation as to how they should respond:

Reiff has a much more polished career than Moses and now history with us.  We dont know the extent of Riley's ankle or if he will even play this season.  

Moses didnt have a team this time last year offer to pick him up as be a starter and this season he will be 31-32 during the season? (I think the guy is kind of an ironman he shows up every game, but he has an obvious tell with his stance as to the play being pass or run, its crazy)

Trent Brown is more talented than Moses, but may be more than they want to spend and is already more expensive than Collins would be with both cap and guaranteed money, and is multiple tiers below Collins.

Ifedi is younger hasnt had a chance to truly prove himself, inexpensive, and most likely the answer age and cost wise.


Tunsil character issues will not stop them as much as the cap hit and if the ask is too big.

Collins character issues wont stop them unless Pollack says it does and if the ask is too big.

As to character issues Zac was asked about this on a post SB interview, he said the locker room was strong enough to take on some questionable guys with great potential.  I'll try to find it. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-11-2022, 01:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Mike Santagata from SI.com just released an article on a wide array of FA OL and listed their pros, cons, and rated their scheme fit 1-10.
https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/film-breakdown-cincinnati-bengals-offensive-line-fit-free-agency

Some noteworthy players that have been mentioned a lot on these boards:

• Ryan Jensen - 7/10 scheme fit
• Laken Tomlinson - 8
• Austin Corbett - 7.5
• Andrew Norwell - 5 (would rate higher if there is a priority on pass blocking)
• Trent Brown - 5
• Morgan Moses - 8
• Connor Williams - 8
• Spain - 5
• Bradley Bozeman - 3
• James Daniels - 7.5
• Brian Allen - 7.5
  

There were two perfect fits in Terron Armstead and Brandon Scherff, but both will be "very" expensive, so neither is likely.

I'll add that players who are a 7.5 or higher on the list plus are projected as "bargain" (under $10 mill APY) cost are:
- Laken Tomlinson
- Austin Corbett
- Morgan Moses
- Connor Williams
- Brian Allen

The last 3 are probably the value for fit.

[casear2727]

(03-11-2022, 08:32 PM)pulses Wrote: He doesn't He is 327 now.




https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaniJa01.htm

Good find,  I wasnt aware.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-11-2022, 08:20 PM)casear2727 Wrote: They just dont pay big money to guards and this free agency for tackle is kind of bare.

Armstead is most likely out of the question.
D Brown way too old.
Moses is old (for Bengals)
Fischer (old)

TBrown, not elite too expensive? and he's already 29
Reiff is old and may retire.

Ifedi is unproven but only 27 and affordable.


Elite
Tunsil is great, only 10M guaranteed money but 18M per season for 2 years, some red flags, minimum 1st Rd pick to acquire

Collins is great, same age as Tunsil 27/28, zero guaranteed money, 10M per year for 3 seasons, more red flags, unsure of acquisition cost but most likely less than Tunsil.

I wouldn't be confident in any draft pick OT to start this year outside of about 4 OTs who are all expected to get drafted (well) before Pick 31.
If I could trade for someone like Collins or even Becton for a Day 1 or Day 2 pick, I'd strongly consider that.

[casear2727]

(03-11-2022, 08:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I wouldn't be confident in any draft pick OT to start this year outside of about 4 OTs who are all expected to get drafted (well) before Pick 31.
If I could trade for someone like Collins or even Becton for a Day 1 or Day 2 pick, I'd strongly consider that.

This without a doubt.  

We are an incredibly much better team with this guy blocking for us. And he his deal with that Guard so many of you want or the upgrade at CB.

Because he costs us zero cash.

We saved about 25M in cash tagging Bates.  Armstead would cost us 25-30M in cash, T Brown 8-10M in cash.  Collins zero cash. 

We have about 70M we will spend this offseason - this goes to signing bonuses.

The savings of 35-50M from above is huge.

Now we can compete for Jensen even better with extra signing bonus.

Maybe we go for Corbett over C Williams now? 

Improve CB a little more.

Upfront cash helps offset our lack of guaranteed years that other teams offer getting free agents over us.

[THE PISTONS]

ESPN had us making an offer to Armstead in predictions, but he didn't sign.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2022, 08:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont disagree, and I'll play a little devil's advocate so you can make a recommendation as to how they should respond:

Reiff has a much more polished career than Moses and now history with us.  We dont know the extent of Riley's ankle or if he will even play this season.  

Moses didnt have a team this time last year offer to pick him up as be a starter and this season he will be 31-32 during the season? (I think the guy is kind of an ironman he shows up every game, but he has an obvious tell with his stance as to the play being pass or run, its crazy)

Trent Brown is more talented than Moses, but may be more than they want to spend and is already more expensive than Collins would be with both cap and guaranteed money, and is multiple tiers below Collins.

Ifedi is younger hasnt had a chance to truly prove himself, inexpensive, and most likely the answer age and cost wise.


Tunsil character issues will not stop them as much as the cap hit and if the ask is too big.

Collins character issues wont stop them unless Pollack says it does and if the ask is too big.

As to character issues Zac was asked about this on a post SB interview, he said the locker room was strong enough to take on some questionable guys with great potential.  I'll try to find it. 

Great post, sure hope a Collins trade is in the cards. In the end Pollack has the last say and he can handle attitude 
better than about any OL coach. He don't take no shit and if La'el and him get along that goes a long way.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2022, 09:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: ESPN had us making an offer to Armstead in predictions, but he didn't sign.

Armstead wants way too much for a dude that is always injured and is older.