Collins' visit is over

[Sled21]

(03-19-2022, 10:48 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The year they got Reader, everyone was screaming for a LB. They couldn't land Schobert or Littleton, so they went after Reader. I think that worked out pretty damn well. 

Last year, a lot of people wanted them to pay Lawson, but they went after Hendrickson instead. That ended up pretty damn good.

Just because they don't do exactly what the fans want, doesn't mean they're automatically making the wrong decisions. We don't even know what Collins was asking for or what the Bengals were offering.

FFS, let things play out and see what happens.

No freakin kidding...

[Fan_in_Kettering]

It is obvious La’el Collins has a very shrewd agent who is looking after his player. A tackle at Collins’ level can afford to be selective and let’s be honest here; Cincinnati hasn’t exactly been a franchise which attracts Tier 1 free agents. This is normal for a player like Collins and his agent. They will look at every option and I think the Bengals made a very attractive case.

[*bfine32*]

(03-19-2022, 11:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Look, I agree with what you're trying to put down overall, but that's some outright nonsense Bfine...

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/2020-nfl-free-agency-top-10-free-agent-cornerbacks
5th

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1949119
4th

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/texans/article/2020-NFL-free-agency-preview-Cornerbacks-15117271.php
8th

https://www.nfl.com/news/ten-cornerbacks-worth-pursuing-in-free-agency-2020-nfl-draft-0ap3000001102237
Not in Top-10

https://fansided.com/2020/02/17/nfl-free-agency-2020-top-cornerbacks/
Not in Top-5

....he was coming off back-to-back 1 INT/8 PDEF seasons. His last season before FA he allowed 74% completion and 107.9 QB Rating in his coverage. If you care about PFF, he had a 65.1, which is just okay. By no means was he the prize of his FA class. Lol


The Bengals took on Cordy Glenn's 3yr/$30m contract. The Bills had already paid him the first 2yr/$30m of it ($16m signing bonus).

I stand corrected. Apparently Eli Apple was the top prize. Did one of those links have Mackenzie Alexander at the top? But as to the points posed:

Was Trae Waynes a Teir 1 FA?

Did the Bengals agree to pay big money by taking on Cordy's contract?

[THE PISTONS]

(03-19-2022, 10:48 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The year they got Reader, everyone was screaming for a LB. They couldn't land Schobert or Littleton, so they went after Reader. I think that worked out pretty damn well. 

Last year, a lot of people wanted them to pay Lawson, but they went after Hendrickson instead. That ended up pretty damn good.

Just because they don't do exactly what the fans want, doesn't mean they're automatically making the wrong decisions. We don't even know what Collins was asking for or what the Bengals were offering.

FFS, let things play out and see what happens.

Yes. And honestly Collins would be kind of crazy to sign the 1st offer he got.

[Bengalbug]

(03-19-2022, 11:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. And honestly Collins would be kind of crazy to sign the 1st offer he got.

Plenty of free agents sign the first offer. The agents typically have a good handle of what the value is.

[Shake n Blake]

The Bengals are not cheap as far as what they're willing to spend.

The problem is the guaranteed money. We get around it more often than not, but in some cases, some guys just won't sign on the dotted line because we offer less guaranteed than most teams.

I'm not saying that's the case here. Heck, he hasn't signed elsewhere yet.

[*bfine32*]

(03-19-2022, 11:14 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Plenty of free agents sign the first offer.  The agents typically have a good handle of what the value is.

I agree but most of those are scheduled to be FAs, It seems the "cut" FAs make a little more of a process out of it. 

[Bengalbug]

(03-19-2022, 11:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Bengals are not cheap as far as what they're willing to spend.

The problem is the guaranteed money. We get around it more often than not, but in some cases, some guys just won't sign on the dotted line because we offer less guaranteed than most teams.

I'm not saying that's the case here. Heck, he hasn't signed elsewhere yet.

It’s ironic. Bengals offer less “gtd” but they typically see most contracts through. Meaning that in the long run it pays to sign with cincy.

[Bengalholic]

(03-19-2022, 11:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Bengals are not cheap as far as what they're willing to spend.

The problem is the guaranteed money. We get around it more often than not, but in some cases, some guys just won't sign on the dotted line because we offer less guaranteed than most teams.

I'm not saying that's the case here. Heck, he hasn't signed elsewhere yet.

I understand the guaranteed money thing (although you argue the way Bengals stick with guys till at least the final seasons of contracts is basically guaranteed money) - in Collins case, I'm perfectly fine with them not wanting to guarantee too much...if that was the case. Same with guys like Daryl Williams or Trent Brown, who I think are both decent options.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-19-2022, 11:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I stand corrected. Apparently Eli Apple was the top prize. Did one of those links have Mackenzie Alexander at the top? But as to the points posed:

Was Trae Waynes a Teir 1 FA?

Did the Bengals agree to pay big money by taking on Cordy's contract?

No, he wasn't. You had Reader and Hendrickson there, so there was no reason to pretend the Waynes signing was better than it was. 

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/22/bengals-signing-trae-waynes-nfl-free-agency-overrated-deal/
https://fansided.com/2020/03/17/bengals-sign-trae-waynes-grade-reactions/ (D+)
https://thevikingage.com/2020/02/21/assessing-minnesota-vikings-waynes-value-free-agency/ (3yr/$25.2m predicted market value)

- - - - - -

The Bengals didn't agree to pay 5yr/$60m, which is what you were make it sound like. They also managed to avoid the vast majority of the guaranteed money. They took on a contract after the signing bonus was paid, and guaranteed money has always been the sticking point for the Bengals, so using Glenn as an example simply isn't a good one. Case and point they ended up actually paying him only 2yr/$20.5m which is not big money (as far as the NFL goes) because they didn't take on guaranteed money.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-19-2022, 11:22 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: It’s ironic. Bengals offer less “gtd” but they typically see most contracts through. Meaning that in the long run it pays to sign with cincy.

(03-19-2022, 11:26 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I understand the guaranteed money thing (although you argue the way Bengals stick with guys till at least the final seasons of contracts is basically guaranteed money) - in Collins case, I'm perfectly fine with them not wanting to guarantee too much...if that was the case. Same with guys like Daryl Williams or Trent Brown, who I think are both decent options.

Exactly. They stick with most guys all the way through their contracts anyway.

So I'm not sure why they won't just do business the way everyone else does.

It does stop us from signing a guy every now and then. They've changed for the better in so many ways, but not this one.

[*bfine32*]

(03-19-2022, 11:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I stand corrected. Apparently Eli Apple was the top prize. Did one of those links have Mackenzie Alexander at the top? But as to the points posed:

Was Trae Waynes a Teir 1 FA?

Did the Bengals agree to pay big money by taking on Cordy's contract?

(03-19-2022, 11:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No, he wasn't.

 using Glenn as an example simply isn't a good one. 

Okey Dokey

[Bengalholic]

(03-19-2022, 11:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No, he wasn't. You had Reader and Hendrickson there, so there was no reason to pretend the Waynes signing was better than it was. 

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2020/03/22/bengals-signing-trae-waynes-nfl-free-agency-overrated-deal/
https://fansided.com/2020/03/17/bengals-sign-trae-waynes-grade-reactions/ (D+)
https://thevikingage.com/2020/02/21/assessing-minnesota-vikings-waynes-value-free-agency/ (3yr/$25.2m predicted market value)

- - - - - -

The Bengals didn't agree to pay 5yr/$60m, which is what you were make it sound like. They also managed to avoid the vast majority of the guaranteed money. They took on a contract after the signing bonus was paid, and guaranteed money has always been the sticking point for the Bengals, so using Glenn as an example simply isn't a good one. Case and point they ended up actually paying him only 2yr/$20.5m which is not big money (as far as the NFL goes) because they didn't take on guaranteed money.

I think it was something like 30m in cash over the 1st 2 years.

[Science Friction]

I've not read anything for a couple of hours ... is the big guy, officially and for certain, out of Cincinnati airspace?

[Bengalholic]

(03-19-2022, 11:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Exactly. They stick with most guys all the way through their contracts anyway.

So I'm not sure why they won't just do business the way everyone else does.

It does stop us from signing a guy every now and then. They've changed for the better in so many ways, but not this one.

Yeah, I still don't agree with every move...but I do try to look at every move on it's own and judge it. Like, I thought they were crazy not to pay what Zeitler was wanting last year, but was OK with not paying Thuney that type of money.

[CardCounterChris]

(03-19-2022, 11:39 PM)Science Friction Wrote: I've not read anything for a couple of hours ... is the big guy, officially and for certain, out of Cincinnati airspace?

Yes. No. Maybe? There's too much misinformation floating around to tell, but every report from a checkmark has him preparing to interview with another team, but not closing the door on Cincy.

[Science Friction]

(03-19-2022, 11:45 PM)CardCounterChris Wrote: Yes. No. Maybe? There's too much misinformation floating around to tell, but every report from a checkmark has him preparing to interview with another team, but not closing the door on Cincy.

Thanks, CCC.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-19-2022, 11:35 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think it was something like 30m in cash over the 1st 2 years.

That's what the Bills paid. The Bengals got the cheaper bit because they didn't have to account for the signing bonus that the Bills had to pay.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22736647/cincinnati-bengals-trade-buffalo-bills-left-tackle-cordy-glenn

Quote:The Bengals will inherit the final three seasons of Glenn's deal, including his $9.25 million base salary and $2 million roster bonus due next week. Of his base salary, $1.5 million is already fully guaranteed and another $6.5 million will become fully guaranteed on Friday. The Bengals will also have Glenn under contract for non-guaranteed base salaries of $7.25 million (2018) and $7.5 million (2019), as well as $2 million roster bonuses each season.

$9.25m base + $2m roster bonus = $11.25m
$7.25m base + $2m roster bonus = $9.25m
$7.50m base + $2m roster bonus = $9.50m (They cut him and didn't pay this.)

So they ended up paying Glenn 2yr/$20.5m

[*bfine32*]

(03-20-2022, 12:34 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's what the Bills paid. The Bengals got the cheaper bit because they didn't have to account for the signing bonus that the Bills had to pay.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22736647/cincinnati-bengals-trade-buffalo-bills-left-tackle-cordy-glenn


$9.25m base + $2m roster bonus = $11.25m
$7.25m base + $2m roster bonus = $9.25m
$7.50m base + $2m roster bonus = $9.50m (They cut him and didn't pay this.)

So they ended up paying Glenn 2yr/$20.5m

Folks kinda believe what they want to believe. You don't think taking on a $30 MIL contract in 2018 is paying money for an olineman. No one's going to change your mind. 

The debate started when dude said the Bengals don't pay big for oline and it's kinda morphed into "that doesn't count because..." from there. It's a story as old as time. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(03-20-2022, 12:46 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks kinda believe what they want to believe. You don't think taking on a $30 MIL contract in 2018 is paying money for an olineman. No one's going to change your mind. 

The debate started when dude said the Bengals don't pay big for oline and it's kinda morphed into "that doesn't count because..." from there. It's a story as old as time. 

Bro, this all started because you said the Bengals took on his 5yr/$60m contract, which is objectively not true. They took his 3yr/$30m contract that had all of $1.5m fully guaranteed left in it. (Also that Waynes was the "prize of his FA class" which was also objectively not true.)

Don't go full Fred.