definition of "Guaranteed Money?"

[kalibengal]

I read on another forum that the guaranteed $ in these FA contracts is "DUE IN A LUMP SUM AT SIGNING"? I was unaware of that and if true if puts small time owners like Brown at a disadvantage and unfair for negotiations when you have billionaires out there like Rams owner that can just write that check to Stafford for 135M after he finishes his turkey sandwhich on his Yacht . Something feels wrong about that.
Hearing that with Collins the "structure" wasnt what he wanted makes me wonder if the guaranteed $ was the sticking point?

[jfkbengals]

(03-20-2022, 01:04 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I read on another forum that the guaranteed $ in these FA contracts is "DUE IN A LUMP SUM AT SIGNING"?  I was unaware of that and if true if puts small time owners like Brown at a disadvantage and unfair for negotiations when you have billionaires out there like Rams owner that can just write that check to Stafford for 135M after he finishes his turkey sandwhich on his Yacht . Something feels wrong about that.
Hearing that with Collins the "structure" wasnt what he wanted makes me wonder if the guaranteed $ was the sticking point?

Guranteed at Signing and Due at Signing are not synonymous.

And I highly doubt what you read from the other forum.

Were it true, a player who signs such a contract will never be paid a dime after signing day.  Fines and suspensions would cause money to be repaid out of pocket, etc.  That's not how it works.

Now the Signing bonus IS generally due in full at signing, with league rules permitting the cap hit to be spread out over the life of the contract.

[fredtoast]

Signing bonus is paid in full.

Guaranteed money is paid out year to year, but pretty sure the full amount has to be placed in escrow at the time the contract is signed.

So if a contract has $50 million guaranteed the team would have to put that amount in an escrow account and still collect the interest from the $50 million until it has to be paid to the player.

[jfkbengals]

(03-20-2022, 01:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Signing bonus is paid in full.

Guaranteed money is paid out year to year, but pretty sure the full amount has to be placed in escrow at the time the contract is signed.

So if a contract has $50 million guaranteed the team would have to put that amount in an escrow account and still make the interest from the $50 million until it has to be paid to the player.

That is a true statement.

[Essex Johnson]

(03-20-2022, 01:04 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I read on another forum that the guaranteed $ in these FA contracts is "DUE IN A LUMP SUM AT SIGNING"?  I was unaware of that and if true if puts small time owners like Brown at a disadvantage and unfair for negotiations when you have billionaires out there like Rams owner that can just write that check to Stafford for 135M after he finishes his turkey sandwhich on his Yacht . Something feels wrong about that.
Hearing that with Collins the "structure" wasnt what he wanted makes me wonder if the guaranteed $ was the sticking point?

Notice how he has had very little visits and overall interest it seems this week, I think his past is going to an issue with "guaranteed"  $$ also

[*michaelsean*]

I don’t think the rich(er) owners are writing checks out of pocket. Probably against NFL rules, and it seems like it would be illegal but I can’t quite say why.

[Sled21]

Freakin just tell Mixon we are about to sign someone else, Mixon will tell his agent, who will tell Collins, and they'll sign. He has no other suitors but Miami and they are looking at someone else as well.

[*Synric*]

(03-20-2022, 01:43 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Freakin just tell Mixon we are about to sign someone else, Mixon will tell his agent, who will tell Collins, and they'll sign. He has no other suitors but Miami and they are looking at someone else as well.

The Dolphins are telling all the other free agent OTs that if he Terron Armstead doesn't work out they will give them a shot.

Also the Denver Broncos are another team that has been interested in La'el Collins since the beginning. I believe that is the the team Mike Garafolo mentioned as a future visit for Collins. 

[kalibengal]

(03-20-2022, 01:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Signing bonus is paid in full.

Guaranteed money is paid out year to year, but pretty sure the full amount has to be placed in escrow at the time the contract is signed.

So if a contract has $50 million guaranteed the team would have to put that amount in an escrow account and still collect the interest from the $50 million until it has to be paid to the player.

yes this makes sense to me, but it also shows that the owner needs to have that liquid $ to put into escrow at signing. i.e. Rams owner would have to put the 135 M in Escrow for Stafford...NOW.  Correct?  So, the rich owners still would have an advantage in this regard. 

[Stewy]

(03-20-2022, 02:09 PM)kalibengal Wrote: yes this makes sense to me, but it also shows that the owner needs to have that liquid $ to put into escrow at signing. i.e. Rams owner would have to put the 135 M in Escrow for Stafford...NOW.  Correct?  So, the rich owners still would have an advantage in this regard. 

they dont pay it out of their pockets ffs -  it's mostly tv and league money that goes to players - there is a min and max spend that all teams must obey - the advantage a rich owner has is with no player expense like facilities, coaches, creature comforts for fans players coaches

[*pally*]

(03-20-2022, 01:26 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I don’t think the rich(er) owners are writing checks out of pocket. Probably against NFL rules, and it seems like it would be illegal but I can’t quite say why.

What they likely have though is more cash on hand to pay these bonuses.  The Browns are uber-rich to be sure but they don't have access to the same level of cash as some of the independently wealthy owners have. Their assets are tied up with the team.  Many of these other owners also make more money from local media, concession and ticket sales (60% stays with team), stadium naming rights, local corporate sponsorships, etc.  All of which adds to the cash on hand pot

[*pally*]

(03-20-2022, 01:43 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Freakin just tell Mixon we are about to sign someone else, Mixon will tell his agent, who will tell Collins, and they'll sign. He has no other suitors but Miami and they are looking at someone else as well.

Mixon has been really quiet this off-season.  He's gone dark on both Twitter and Instagram since the Super Bowl.  Last off season he was all publically cheering on free agents so it has been kind of weird to see this one.  Of course, that doesn't mean he isn't doing things behind the scences

[THE PISTONS]

(03-20-2022, 02:14 PM)pally Wrote: What they likely have though is more cash on hand to pay these bonuses.  The Browns are uber-rich to be sure but they don't have access to the same level of cash as some of the independently wealthy owners have. Their assets are tied up with the team.  Many of these other owners also make more money from local media, concession and ticket sales (60% stays with team), stadium naming rights, local corporate sponsorships, etc.  All of which adds to the cash on hand pot

I think it's more philosophy rather than cash. The Bengals don't like having dead cap space when you waive guys.

Honestly, the more guaranteed money you give, the more risk. That player gets hurt and never plays again...and you're on the hook for that.

[reuben.ahmed]

the only guarantees in life are death and taxes

[THE PISTONS]

(03-20-2022, 02:56 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: the only guarantees in life are death and taxes

What about in states with no income tax?

[reuben.ahmed]

(03-20-2022, 02:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What about in states with no income tax?

You still have to pay sales tax. xD. There are 5 states with no sales tax. Do they also have no income tax?

[THE PISTONS]

(03-20-2022, 03:07 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: You still have to pay sales tax. xD. There are 5 states with no sales tax. Do they also have no income tax?

Usually if they don't have 1, the other is large.

My state has income and sales tax.

[jfkbengals]

(03-20-2022, 02:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What about in states with no income tax?

They still have Federal.

[*pally*]

(03-20-2022, 02:18 PM)pally Wrote: Mixon has been really quiet this off-season.  He's gone dark on both Twitter and Instagram since the Super Bowl.  Last off season he was all publically cheering on free agents so it has been kind of weird to see this one.  Of course, that doesn't mean he isn't doing things behind the scences

I posted that and then Joe posts this...also weird

If I don't post, and I go ghost, it's gone be for a reason…

— ⚡️Primetime!!!⚡️ (@Joe_MainMixon) March 20, 2022

 

[GodFather]

(03-20-2022, 01:04 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I read on another forum that the guaranteed $ in these FA contracts is "DUE IN A LUMP SUM AT SIGNING"?  I was unaware of that and if true if puts small time owners like Brown at a disadvantage and unfair for negotiations when you have billionaires out there like Rams owner that can just write that check to Stafford for 135M after he finishes his turkey sandwhich on his Yacht . Something feels wrong about that.
Hearing that with Collins the "structure" wasnt what he wanted makes me wonder if the guaranteed $ was the sticking point?

Think of it when you hire your weekly hooker, wether or not you finish the job it’s guaranteed she’s getting paid 100%.