Breaking: Carman rape accusation at Clemson

[*ochocincos*]

(04-29-2022, 06:39 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

Its a year too late on this whether fact or fiction.
This guy wasn't my starting LG ever! I just root for my team and hope they draft a guy to bench his @$$!!!
We still have about five prosects in this draft to put us out of our misery. I will only root for this sack a potatoes so Burrow doesn't get hurt! I sure hope that this finds Paul Alexander too! Someone sent me this in February thats why I asked is he "Your LG"

Ok you want me to name 5

Jamaree Salyer OL Georgia
Ed Ingram LG LSU
Marquis Hayes LG Oklahoma
Stills G Oklahoma State
Jason Poe G Mercer
UNC G can't pronounce it
Dylan Parham G/C Mempis
Darrian Kinnard G Kentucky
Thayer Munford G Ohio State
Lecitus Smith G Virginia Tech
Rasheed Walker G ( Because hes moving inside)
Sean Ryan LG /T UCLA
Now look any one of those guys up there and tell me that
.....

So you hope the Bengals spend yet another pick on a starter to replace Carman rather than just hope Carman pans out so that the Bengals put their draft picks toward other positions?


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[AtomicBlaze]

(04-30-2022, 01:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So you hope the Bengals spend yet another pick on a starter to replace Carman rather than just hope Carman pans out so that the Bengals put their draft picks toward other positions?


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 Even if Carman turns out to be good we have no quality OL depth.  At this point I would rather pickup a couple of quality free agents though, I don't want any projects on the OL, we have enough of those.  And the Bengals have proven they don't know how to draft OL anyway, it is a big weakness in our scouting department.  BTW Carman has already proven to me he is not dependable, he is already missing games because of his back and he showed up in the preseason out of shape, that is all I need to know.  I was disgusted with the pick from the get go because of the fact he has a back injury history.  I can almost guarantee he will be a bust.  I was sure of it after the draft and am even more sure of it now.  Either way I normally wouldn't care if he sucked, but I do care about Joe Burrows health so I really don't want Carman out there protecting him.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-30-2022, 01:44 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:  Even if Carman turns out to be good we have no quality OL depth.  At this point I would rather pickup a couple of quality free agents though, I don't want any projects on the OL, we have enough of those.  And the Bengals have proven they don't know how to draft OL anyway, it is a big weakness in our scouting department.  BTW Carman has already proven to me he is not dependable, he is already missing games because of his back and he showed up in the preseason out of shape, that is all I need to know.  I was disgusted with the pick from the get go because of the fact he has a back injury history.  I can almost guarantee he will be a bust.  I was sure of it after the draft and am even more sure of it now.  Either way I normally wouldn't care if he sucked, but I do care about Joe Burrows health so I really don't want Carman out there protecting him.

I'm fine drafting depth. I have said frequently this offseason that I think an OL drafted in the mid-rounds makes sense.
But I don't think people have to necessarily root for Carman to get supplanted so soon.
Fans should hope Carman pans out so that it's not a wasted early-round pick like Drew Sample.

Also, you say how you were "disgusted" with the pick and he's not reliable because of injury.
He played more games as a rookie than Jonah Williams, and Williams has turned into quite a solid OL.
Maybe we should wait another year or two before declaring Carman a bust and needing to move on from him as a potential starter.

[tms]

(04-30-2022, 10:19 AM)leonardfan40 Wrote: A low level media outlet wrote the story. Why would they? For clicks. If you want to get into conspiracy theories it could be any other team as well trying to get others to jump us to take o line to drop other positions or to allow themselves to trade back since there appeared to be a lack of trade up interest before the draft.

It makes no sense for the bengals to do this. If they were going to they would do it AFTER they drafted his replacement. Why would they put news out there that indicates they will draft an o line high ahead of time? Then everyone who needed o line would jump us in the draft. The fact that they haven’t drafted o line yet should be the final piece of evidence you need to prove they didn’t put that news out themselves. There is no reason to even suggest they did this

It makes no sense for anyone to do this, is the point. They were a "low-level media outlet" that was picked up by Cincinnati media and then spread like wildfire- but only locally. As if by design. If it was a nothing-burger, why would anyone bother? More importantly, why did Zac even dignify it with a response at the presser? "We're following the story on Jackson Carman, no comment at this time..." or whatever he said- following what? There was nothing new in the report. Why would he mention Carman by name? Even that's atypical. Team statements usually say "speculation around one of our players" and keep it broad and vague, so as to not draw attention to the name. 

There's a lot of pointed criticism of the Bengals' scouting department in the article. That pokes a hole in my theory for sure. At the same time, if they wanted it to look unbiased, that's probably the low-hanging fruit. Said criticism of the organization isn't new either. Maybe they were willing to pay that sacrifice.

Either way, I think it's fair to be asking questions about why this came out NOW. Thursday afternoon, just before the draft and instant pick-up across the region (and nowhere else)? Leads me to wonder.  

[JaggedJimmyJay]

When a publication needs clicks, and they decide that a smear campaign is the way, they choose… Jackson Carman as their target.

World famous Jackson Carman.

Okay.

[AtomicBlaze]

(04-30-2022, 01:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm fine drafting depth. I have said frequently this offseason that I think an OL drafted in the mid-rounds makes sense.
But I don't think people have to necessarily root for Carman to get supplanted so soon.
Fans should hope Carman pans out so that it's not a wasted early-round pick like Drew Sample.

Also, you say how you were "disgusted" with the pick and he's not reliable because of injury.
He played more games as a rookie than Jonah Williams, and Williams has turned into quite a solid OL.
Maybe we should wait another year or two before declaring Carman a bust and needing to move on from him as a potential starter.

It is the type of injury that concerns me with the position he plays.  I was never overly concerned about Jonah Williams injuries.  Anyway you will see, he might be able to give us a few games here and there but the back injury will always be there and will not get better with the pounding on it from playing OL.  I would be OK with Carman as a backup because I believe he might be able to give us solid snaps in an emergency but that is about it.  If you ever had a back injury you would know this.  It is like an achilles tear for a skill position player, I just know that player will never be a top end player again.

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2022, 02:44 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: If you ever had a back injury you would know this. 

No offense, man, but having a back injury does not make you a doctor or an expert on every other back injury suffered by other people.

I am sure the Bengals had experts go over Carman's medical issues before they drafted him.  This back problem was no surprise or secret.

[AtomicBlaze]

(04-30-2022, 03:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No offense, man, but having a back injury does not make you a doctor or an expert on every other back injury suffered by other people.

I am sure the Bengals had experts go over Carman's medical issues before they drafted him.  This back problem was no surprise or secret.

It is actually just common sense, I am not claiming to be an expert.

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2022, 03:04 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: It is actually just common sense, 

You can't make any kind of medical diagnosis with "common sense".

Rob Gronkowski had back surgery in 2013 and was first team All-Pro 3 of the next 4 seasons.

[grampahol]

(04-30-2022, 03:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No offense, man, but having a back injury does not make you a doctor or an expert on every other back injury suffered by other people.

I am sure the Bengals had experts go over Carman's medical issues before they drafted him.  This back problem was no surprise or secret.

Ehem Fred.. I had surgery on my femoral artery recently and since I can now spell femoral correctly that qualifies me as an expert vascular surgeon..
OK, it doesn't and I don't know doodly squat about vascular surgery nor femoral arteries except how to spell them..
Next time you need vascular surgery gimme a call. I have a fancy schmancy table saw and a dust collector hooked up to it! 

[AtomicBlaze]

(04-30-2022, 03:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't make any kind of medical diagnosis with "common sense".

Rob Gronkowski had back surgery in 2013 and was first team All-Pro 3 of the next 4 seasons.

 So you give 1 example in all of NFL history, and you think that is the norm.  Sure there are always exceptions to anything.  Also Rob Gronkowski is not an OL so it is not even a good comparison.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(04-30-2022, 05:07 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:  So you give 1 example in all of NFL history, and you think that is the norm.  Sure there are always exceptions to anything.  Also Rob Gronkowski is not an OL so it is not even a good comparison.

Not to mention he lost a couple of steps due to his back issue. He was best TE in the game before back issues

[THE PISTONS]

(04-30-2022, 02:44 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: It is the type of injury that concerns me with the position he plays.  I was never overly concerned about Jonah Williams injuries.  Anyway you will see, he might be able to give us a few games here and there but the back injury will always be there and will not get better with the pounding on it from playing OL.  I would be OK with Carman as a backup because I believe he might be able to give us solid snaps in an emergency but that is about it.  If you ever had a back injury you would know this.  It is like an achilles tear for a skill position player, I just know that player will never be a top end player again.

Players recover from Achilles injuries all the time.

[AtomicBlaze]

(04-30-2022, 09:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Players recover from Achilles injuries all the time.

A complete tear will likely decrease performance.  I wouldn't want the Bengals drafting someone with this injury either.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-30-2022, 02:12 PM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: When a publication needs clicks, and they decide that a smear campaign is the way, they choose… Jackson Carman as their target.

World famous Jackson Carman.

Okay.

Well...they got 6 pages of comments in this thread...

[CJD]

After reflecting on this situation, I realize that it was a pipe dream to ever expect the Bengals to cut him following this story.
I think it's very likely that they already knew about this accusation when they chose to draft him. If they were okay with it then, they're going to still be okay with it now.

It's frustrating because, up to that pick (and throughout this 2022 draft), the Bengals have prioritized team leaders and high character players. I don't know why they broke that pattern to draft an alleged rapist (and arguably a pedophile, although I understand some states allow for a 15 year old and an 18 year old to have sex) who isn't even that good at football.

[Stewy]

(05-01-2022, 12:16 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: After reflecting on this situation, I realize that it was a pipe dream to ever expect the Bengals to cut him following this story.
I think it's very likely that they already knew about this accusation when they chose to draft him. If they were okay with it then, they're going to still be okay with it now.

It's frustrating because, up to that pick (and throughout this 2022 draft), the Bengals have prioritized team leaders and high character players. I don't know why they broke that pattern to draft an alleged rapist (and arguably a pedophile, although I understand some states allow for a 15 year old and an 18 year old to have sex) who isn't even that good at football.

#1 you're assuming he's guilty so shame on you and #2 - We know you hate this player as you have started an entire thread on it.

You're assuming the team ignored a guilty man, due to your extreme bias.  This is OLD news.  It came out last year.  There was an 80 page Carman threads from last year where it was discussed.  The same arguments made here were made there at the time.  Weak to no evidence.  Local law did not see a crime and dismissed it.

The coaches like him and believe in him and want to give him a chance to succeed, and I hate to tell you but they are not the ones who are biased and blind....

[CJD]

(05-01-2022, 12:56 PM)Stewy Wrote: #1 you're assuming he's guilty so shame on you and #2 - We know you hate this player as you have started an entire thread on it.

You're assuming the team ignored a guilty man, due to your extreme bias.  This is OLD news.  It came out last year.  There was an 80 page Carman threads from last year where it was discussed.  The same arguments made here were made there at the time.  Weak to no evidence.  Local law did not see a crime and dismissed it.

The coaches like him and believe in him and want to give him a chance to succeed, and I hate to tell you but they are not the ones who are biased and blind....

#1 I said alleged, so shame on you for not reading.
#2 I did? I don't recall making that thread or hating him any more than the average Bengals fan following his poor rookie season. I even went through my threads I've created and I don't know which one you're talking about.

I never said he was guilty, just that this is a major character concern and it doesn't make sense to draft him when every other player they drafted was a team captain and high character guy. Whether you like it or not, you don't need to be charged or convicted of a crime for an accusation to be a stain on your record. These kinds of crimes go without charges all the time because of their very nature as a he said she said situation. I would have preferred the Bengals just steer clear of drafting any guys who MAY be rapists.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-01-2022, 12:16 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: After reflecting on this situation, I realize that it was a pipe dream to ever expect the Bengals to cut him following this story.
I think it's very likely that they already knew about this accusation when they chose to draft him. If they were okay with it then, they're going to still be okay with it now.

It's frustrating because, up to that pick (and throughout this 2022 draft), the Bengals have prioritized team leaders and high character players. I don't know why they broke that pattern to draft an alleged rapist (and arguably a pedophile, although I understand some states allow for a 15 year old and an 18 year old to have sex) who isn't even that good at football.

I agree the pick makes no sense, I have a feeling Frank Pollack did not have input on this based on interviews after the selection.  I believe Mike Brown made the selection and that is why is still on the roster, and why we will be stuck with him for his entire contract and refuse to sign his replacement even though there are plenty of better options in free agency.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2022, 01:14 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote:  I would have preferred the Bengals just steer clear of drafting any guys who MAY be rapists.

If you believe in "character" then you don't punish someone on baseless allegations.  That is not what people with "character" do.  

Based on everything I read there was clearly evidence in the girl's phone records that cleared Carman. What authority should we have to punish a guy like that?