Stability...its boring but its better than the alternative

[sonofstat]

"If Austin Davis starts Sunday, he is 15th Browns QB to start vs. Marvin Lewis Bengals in 26 games" Geoff Hobson

That's a ridiculous stat. How can you consistently win with a revolving door at QB/Head coach?

I know at times the conservative nature of Mike Brown/M Lewis has frustrated me but there's a lot to be said for sticking with your vision and the people you hired or drafted. Just changing things up every 5 minutes never seems to work out and every change brings another rebuilding cycle of hiring /firing.

Apart from injury cover (Fitzmagic) Marvin will probably only have had 2 QB's in Palmer and Dalton by the time he is done as head coach...dread to think how many Browns QB's he'll have faced by the time he is done.

[sonofstat]

by the way I realise this particular change is driven by the latest injury to McCown but its a more general point about trusting your decision making and direction as an organisation.

They chose to draft Manziel, they chose to flip/flop their named starters, they still potentially will go into next years draft not clear which way they are going

[Se ky bengal]

(12-02-2015, 09:53 AM)sonofstat Wrote: "If Austin Davis starts Sunday, he is 15th Browns QB to start vs. Marvin Lewis Bengals in 26 games"  Geoff Hobson

That's a ridiculous stat.  How can you consistently win with a revolving door at QB/Head coach?

I know at times the conservative nature of Mike Brown/M Lewis has frustrated me but there's a lot to be said for sticking with your vision and the people you hired or drafted.  Just changing things up every 5 minutes never seems to work out and every change brings another rebuilding cycle of hiring /firing.

Apart from injury cover (Fitzmagic) Marvin will probably only have had 2 QB's in Palmer and Dalton by the time he is done as head coach...dread to think how many Browns QB's he'll have faced by the time he is done.

I think that's why bengals are doing so well. We draft ours guys ride with them. Browns will never be competitive until they get a coach and qb and develop him and build their team to up to his strength. It's a shame their fans deserve better than their getting. We know so well what their going through, with that said screw them 

[tigerseye]

Stability is good if your running the organization correctly and have the right players. Cleveland isn't and their cuberd if only half full. It's hard to fix because as your filling it ,some is falling out. Starts with the QB and the organization and they have neither. The depressing part for them is once you get those peices it takes time to get it working. I remember those days when we were in that situation. Kudos to the Bengals. Condolences to the Browns. I suggest the first thing they do is find a ruder.

[OrlandoBengal]

(12-02-2015, 01:05 PM)tigerseye Wrote: Stability is good if your running the organization correctly and have the right players. Cleveland isn't and their cuberd if only half full. It's hard to fix because as your filling it ,some is falling out. Starts with the QB and the organization and they have neither. The depressing part for them is once you get those peices it takes time to get it working. I remember those days when we were in that situation. Kudos to the Bengals. Condolences to the Browns. I suggest the first thing they do is find a ruder.

Exactly.  How many first round bust quarterbacks have they taken?  You can't have consistency when you draft the wrong players...

[XenoMorph]

(12-02-2015, 01:05 PM)tigerseye Wrote: Stability is good if your running the organization correctly and have the right players. Cleveland isn't and their cuberd if only half full. It's hard to fix because as your filling it ,some is falling out. Starts with the QB and the organization and they have neither. The depressing part for them is once you get those peices it takes time to get it working. I remember those days when we were in that situation. Kudos to the Bengals. Condolences to the Browns. I suggest the first thing they do is find a ruder.

Doesnt have to start with the QB....

Build your OL and DL
Get a RB and WRs CBs and LBers

Use a journeyman Vet QB while you build this. You wont win a ton of games but there is no instant success in the NFL that can be sustained.

Draft your QB and now you have a team around him to win with instead making the QB win with nothing.

[sonofstat]

(12-02-2015, 01:14 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Exactly.  How many first round bust quarterbacks have they taken?  You can't have consistency when you draft the wrong players...

I was going to include in the original post that we got 'lucky' in drafting Palmer and then Dalton but then I thought about it....it's only seen as luck after the event when really its just you're in right position to make the best decision.

Yeah we were no.1 but we chose to spend it on Palmer...plenty of other franchises have had no.1's and not picked the right one (hello JaMarcus russell) 

Also - kudos to Jay Gruden here too - there were plenty of QB's taken in the first 2 rounds of Dalton's draft but we clearly felt he was the best fit for us and also one of the most pro-ready.

[tigerseye]

I know when a team is that messed up it can be depressing (so to speak) to the fans because it is so hard to fix and takes alot of time ,even if you are doing things correctly. But at least they don't have players abandoning ship left and right ,like what we went through ,years back. At least not yet. Sucks to be them.

[reuben.ahmed]

How do you prepare for a team when you have no background on a QB. no wonder the Browns usually give us a fight every now and then. Bengals don't do well against backups, typically.

[GreenCornBengal]

They were showing promise last year, but then ditched Hoyer half way thru the season.

Every time they take a step forward they (or one of their players) does something to bring them 2 steps back... Josh Gordon comes to mind.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-02-2015, 01:22 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Doesnt have to start with the QB....

Build your OL and DL
Get a RB and WRs   CBs and LBers

Use a journeyman Vet QB while you build this.  You wont win a ton of games but there is no instant success in the NFL that can be sustained.  

Draft your QB and now you have a team around him to win with instead making the QB win with nothing.

They've had those at different times over the years. The problem is they have never had a QB with any sort of competence. 
You need a QB with competence. NEED. 

[CageTheBengal]

I actually enjoy the conservative nature of this franchise at times. Believe it or not I think the guy in the Cincy locker room are very happy that they play for the Bengals.

1. Honoring contracts to veterans who have given their prime to the franchise. (aka Leon Hall)
2. Not cutting the cord on players prematurely and giving them time to mature not only as players but as men. A lot of these guys seem to respect M.Brown.
3. The culture in the locker room is a family culture. These guys will fight for each other until the final snap.
   

These are the things the Stains will never understand. They want instant success and have been swinging blindly in the dark for years. Between their coaching carousel and their free agency sprees they have a snow balls chance in hell of sniffing success.

It's been a long road and not a smooth one at that but the Bengals franchise has been competing at a high level and by all accounts It looks like they are prepared to sustain that success for a long time.

Quote:   GreenCornBengal
   They were showing promise last year, but then ditched Hoyer half way thru the season.

   Every time they take a step forward they (or one of their players) does something to bring them 2 steps back... Josh Gordon comes to mind.

Hoyer isn't perfect at all but damn he's the best QB the Browns have had in the last decade. He's getting the ball to Hopkins just like he did to Gordon.

Another short-sighted choice by the biggest joke in football.

[OrlandoBengal]

(12-02-2015, 02:36 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: They've had those at different times over the years. The problem is they have never had a QB with any sort of competence. 
You need a QB with competence. NEED. 

Completely agree.  In today's NFL if you don't have your franchise quarterback, then you are looking for him.  Unfortunately, you absolutely kill the franchise when you take the wrong guy... it puts your organization back at least 3-4 years, and that is assuming it doesn't end up costing the Head Coach his job as well.

[sonofstat]

(12-02-2015, 01:22 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Doesnt have to start with the QB....

Build your OL and DL
Get a RB and WRs   CBs and LBers

Use a journeyman Vet QB while you build this.  You wont win a ton of games but there is no instant success in the NFL that can be sustained.  

Draft your QB and now you have a team around him to win with instead making the QB win with nothing.

I completely agree with this.  I think teams remain consistently poor because they get caught in this endless cycle of losing and then looking for QB saviours, they burn high draft picks by reaching for the QB rather than anyone who is worth the pick and a realistic NFL talent - whatever their position.

So glad we have our QB and have been able to draft BPA in rounds 1-2 since 2011

[OrlandoBengal]

(12-02-2015, 02:49 PM)sonofstat Wrote: I completely agree with this.  I think teams remain consistently poor because they get caught in this endless cycle of losing and then looking for QB saviours, they burn high draft picks by reaching for the QB rather than anyone who is worth the pick and a realistic NFL talent - whatever their position.

So glad we have our QB and have been able to draft BPA in rounds 1-2 since 2011

I think you have to remember that no other owner in the league has the patience of Mike Brown.  Teams reach for a quarterback because both the coach and the General Manager know that his job is on the line from year to year.

As you said earlier, the Bengals have actually had some luck in drafting Palmer and then Dalton.  There have been A LOT of quarterbacks taken in the first two rounds that are not capable of playing in the NFL.  Most of the credit goes to the organization for doing a good job scouting, but there is some luck as well... imagine if Mike Brown would have demanded Kaepernick be chosen instead of Dalton?  Who knows where this franchise would be...

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-02-2015, 02:49 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Completely agree.  In today's NFL if you don't have your franchise quarterback, then you are looking for him.  Unfortunately, you absolutely kill the franchise when you take the wrong guy... it puts your organization back at least 3-4 years, and that is assuming it doesn't end up costing the Head Coach his job as well.

It all comes back to QB anymore.

Go find a QB first. The league has made it so the whole "sitting" for a year is irrelevant. 

Besides, Browns have had a solid OL for 3-5 years. The Defense had been pretty good over those stretches. They got good RB play some years and had good WR play others. 
But it all comes back to their QBs being Brandon Weeden, Jake Delhomme, Derrek Anderson and Johnny Football. 

[XenoMorph]

(12-02-2015, 03:05 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: It all comes back to QB anymore.

Go find a QB first. The league has made it so the whole "sitting" for a year is irrelevant. 

Besides, Browns have had a solid OL for 3-5 years. The Defense had been pretty good over those stretches. They got good RB play some years and had good WR play others. 
But it all comes back to their QBs being Brandon Weeden, Jake Delhomme, Derrek Anderson and Johnny Football. 

but a QB does nothing for a team if he doesnt have time to throw or someone to throw too....

Derek anderson had a good season for them and so did hoyer... But when they lost weapons they didnt replace them instead they replaced the coach and the QB over and over again.

They dont give time for a coach or GM to build a team of players that fit their scheme so they constantly have talent but for the wrong system.

Doing nothing to replace Gordon was the biggest mistake the last few years heck with good weapons a Decent OL and a Defense Colt Mccoy could still be producining the yearly 4 wins the franchise gets.

You dont have to play every season to win it all... you gotta build to it. if you can find even a stable QB for a few years it allows you to fill out the rest of your team so the next QB has something to walk into that isnt a steaming pile of S*!@

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-02-2015, 03:18 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: but a QB does nothing for a team if he doesnt have time to throw or someone to throw too....

Derek anderson had a good season for them and so did hoyer... But when they lost weapons they didnt replace them instead they replaced the coach and the QB over and over again.

They dont give time for a coach or GM to build a team of players that fit their scheme so they constantly have talent but for the wrong system.

Doing nothing to replace Gordon was the biggest mistake the last few years  heck with good weapons a Decent OL and a Defense Colt Mccoy could still be producining the yearly 4 wins the franchise gets.

You dont have to play every season to win it all... you gotta build to it. if you can find even a stable QB for a few years it allows you to fill out the rest of your team so the next QB has something to walk into that isnt a steaming pile of S*!@

Because those QBs weren't actually good. 
So again, FIND A GOOD QB

[Se ky bengal]

(12-02-2015, 03:21 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Because those QBs weren't actually good. 
So again, FIND A GOOD QB

[RoyleRedlegs]

(12-02-2015, 03:25 PM)Se ky bengal Wrote:

If you have a good QB and need to build around him, teams will be patient. If you don't have a good QB, teams act fast to rectify it. 

If Anderson, Hoyer, Weeden, Quinn or Manziel were good...the Browns would have stuck with them and coaches longer trying to build something. 
But they aren't good. So they moved on. 

Now, this new ownership that forced Manziel on Pettine is different. That shouldn't be on him. Very similar to how the Titans thrust Vince Young on Jeff Fisher and set that franchise back from their usual 9-7 pace and ended Fisher's run there.