Why Do You Like This Draft!

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2022, 02:01 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: How is that a fact? It defies all logic and reason.

How do you think quarterbacks get hurt? 

I have seen Andy Dalton injured 3 times and he was not getting sacked on any of them. Once making a tackle. Once in a scrum trying to recover a fumble. And once running the ball.

[BFritz21]

(05-04-2022, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have seen Andy Dalton injured 3 times and he was not getting sacked on any of them. Once making a tackle. Once in a scrum trying to recover a fumble. And once running the ball.

Ok, but how do a majority of quarterbacks get injured?

Dalton being injured on those doesn't make it false that the majority of quarterbacks get injured on sacks.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2022, 02:51 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Ok, but how do a majority of quarterbacks get injured?

I'd say the most common injury is when their throwing had hits a helmet, but I don't really know.

However my point is that injuries to the QB seem to be random and not connected to the number of sacks. Dalton has been sacked 320 times without getting injured.  Joe Burrow had a season ending injury on the 32nd sack of his career.

[Hammerstripes]

(05-01-2022, 12:24 AM)Emeritus Wrote:

Thats all its about is a dialogue of if this team got better over the weekend as opposed to our rivals.
I just happen to think that we fell short of our rivals this weekend. We went to the SB but we want to stay elite and this weekend helped them catch us. All the analytics guys out there can see what I'm saying. Again we went to the SB last year but did we do enough this offseason and draft to make it back.
We made Jessie Bates mad so mission accomplished but we didn't solve our LG problem or depth issue along the offensive line. We needed a TE but all we have is Sample and maybe Moss as a backup. If any of the big three wideouts get hurt knock on wood..Now why would you believe that the linebacker group is so deep and great. We just met Pratt in the playoffs and never really knew ADG

Why does one aspect of the offseason count more than the other?

We did our major work in free agency.  We signed 3 starting O-linemen that will immediately improve the team DRASTICALLY.  Did Baltimore or Pittsburgh do that?  Nope.  

We didn't need to be collect star players - we already have them - Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Reader, Hendrickson etc..

The reality is that we were one DB injury away from a disaster last year.  Remember the prior year when we lined up 3 practice squad guys against Baltimore?


I'm not sure who these analytic guys are that you claim agree that we didn't address our needs.  We had our needs addressed in free agency and took the best guys on the board in the draft.  That's how you run an offseason.

[BFritz21]

(05-04-2022, 03:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I'd say the most common injury is when their throwing had hits a helmet, but I don't really know.

However my point is that injuries to the QB seem to be random and not connected to the number of sacks. Dalton has been sacked 320 times without getting injured.  Joe Burrow had a season ending injury on the 32nd sack of his career.

[Hammerstripes]

(05-04-2022, 02:51 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Ok, but how do a majority of quarterbacks get injured?

Dalton being injured on those doesn't make it false that the majority of quarterbacks get injured on sacks.

If you're talking about lower body injuries - it's usually a freak play or a dirty hit.  The hit to the knee on Palmer is now illegal and the hit to Burrow's knee was a freak play.

Fred's correct.  The number of sacks a QB takes doesn't lead to season ending or major injures - the data doesn't support that.  

[Hammerstripes]

(05-04-2022, 03:34 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:

Rather than laugh at the point, why don't you come up with something that actually shows that the more hits a QB takes, the more likely he is to get a serious injury.


https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-sacks-allowed-in-a-season

Here are the most sacks given up in a year.  Interesting that most of the QBs on this list played all 16 games or 15 games.  The lowest number was 12.

[BFritz21]

(05-04-2022, 03:36 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: If you're talking about lower body injuries - it's usually a freak play or a dirty hit.  The hit to the knee on Palmer is now illegal and the hit to Burrow's knee was a freak play.

Fred's correct.  The number of sacks a QB takes doesn't lead to season ending or major injures - the data doesn't support that.  

Fred's incorrect.

If a quarterback is hit more or sacked more, there's more chance for injury.

That's common sense.

[BFritz21]

(05-04-2022, 03:39 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Rather than laugh at the point, why don't you come up with something that actually shows that the more hits a QB takes, the more likely he is to get a serious injury.


https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-sacks-allowed-in-a-season

Here are the most sacks given up in a year.  Interesting that most of the QBs on this list played all 16 games or 15 games.  The lowest number was 12.

That doesn't list injuries or the reasons for the injuries, so those are irrelevant stats.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2022, 03:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: That's common sense.

No it isn't.

Don't confuse "common sense" with "ignorance of facts".  I have not seen any proof that there is a correlation between QB injuries and QB sacks.  Lots of QBs get sacked hundreds of times without ever getting injured while others get injured constantly even though they are only sacked a fraction of the time. 

[BFritz21]

(05-04-2022, 04:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it isn't.

Don't confuse "common sense" with "ignorance of facts".  I have not seen any proof that there is a correlation between QB injuries and QB sacks.  Lots of QBs get sacked hundreds of times without ever getting injured while others get injured constantly even though they are only sacked a fraction of the time. 

  

Fred, please just stop!

This has to be another time where you refuse to be wrong just to avoid being wrong because it's not a good look.

It's also injuries and hits. I like how you left that out.

If there were numbers to prove your point, you'd post them.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2022, 05:01 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If there were numbers to prove your point, you'd post them.

Over the last 5 years look at the QBs who were sacked the most and most of them were also among the most durable QBs in the league.

Russell Wilson was the most sacked QB yet he was also had the 5th most games played.
Matt Ryan was 2nd in sacks but also 2nd in most games played.
Cousins was 4th most sacked 4th in most games played.
Stafford was 5th most sacked, but 7th in most games played.
Carr was 6th most sacked and, but 3rd in most games played.

On the other end of the spectrum neither of the 2 starting QBs with the lowest sack percentages (Brees, Roethlisberger) were in the top 10 in most games played.

Derek Anderson has the 9th lowest sack% in NFL history yet he had 3 season-ending injuries in just 49 career starts.

Finally, guess who has the 7th lowest career sack percentage among all QBs who played over the last decade (20th lowest all-time).  .  .  Andrew Luck (5.0%)

 

[Hammerstripes]

(05-04-2022, 05:01 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:   

Fred, please just stop!

This has to be another time where you refuse to be wrong just to avoid being wrong because it's not a good look.

It's also injuries and hits. I like how you left that out.

If there were numbers to prove your point, you'd post them.

I just posted the numbers.  The most sacked QBs in the game ever played full seasons.  Some missed a game.  

Those are literally the numbers.

Again, the most sacked QBs didn't get seriously injured.  I don't know how you can't agree with that when the numbers are right there in front of you,

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-04-2022, 06:37 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I just posted the numbers.  The most sacked QBs in the game ever played full seasons.  Some missed a game.  

Those are literally the numbers.

Again, the most sacked QBs didn't get seriously injured.  I don't know how you can't agree with that when the numbers are right there in front of you,

I get what you and Fred are saying. Yes a sack may not result in an injury. Not all sacks are the same. But the point is that most QB injuries are a result of hits behind the line or sacks. While 1000 sacks may not result in an injury a single sack can cause an injury. So it only makes sense that you would try and limit the amount of hits and sacks your QB has to absorb.

Beyond this Burrow has just had 2 seasons of high sacks. One season ended with a terrible injury and although we made it to the superbowl Burrow was hobbled multiple times. 

[GodFather]

What I like best about the drafts that it's over. Sick and tired of reading BS predictions that always end up wrong at the end of the day..

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(05-04-2022, 06:56 PM)GodFather Wrote: What I like best about the drafts that it's over. Sick and tired of reading BS predictions that always end up wrong at the end of the day..

That's what it's come to, for me; I LOVE the draft and I will read evaluations on strengths/weaknesses/observations 'til the cows come home, but so many people stating how so and so player will end up and endless, endless, ENDLESS mock draft 5.9s, etc., I'm just sick of it, ESPECIALLY since they almost never come true lol.

[OSUfan]

(04-30-2022, 11:35 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

I don't like this draft and I know I'm not alone. So please tell us how this will win the division when everyone in it got better except the Bengals. This was supposed to be a backfill draft of quality depth players but we got ....Nothing of the sort. Yes, we addressed the safety position but at what cost. No tightend No wideout 1 offensive lineman but who are your backups! The other teams in the division got better but we didn't! Stop talking yourself into it. Quinton Spain will be signed at some point but he costs a SB.
It should damn well hurt!
https://youtu.be/x6TF-8fyxhw

Sorry but your post is silliness. We needed depth most of all in the defensive backfield and especially in the form of covering TEs and RBs. We go that and did it in spades. This defensive backfield can be ran out with multiple different looks now that can be run with the same personnel groupings. 

TE was already addressed with the signing of Hayden Hurst, whom I personally think will be a real asset to this offense, not to mention that we still have Drew Sample and Moss. I am intrigued with Scotty Washington myself and would really like to see him push for playing time given his receiving skills. He is up to almost 250 pounds of what appears to be solid weight.

LT -  Jonah Williams/D' Ante Smith
LG - Carman/Volson/
C - Ted Karras/Trey Hill
RG - Alex Cappa/Volson
RT - Lael Collins/Prince/Carman

That is without even accounting for them bringing in Ben Brown from Ole Miss. You act as if the offensive line has not been addressed at all since the end of the season. That clearly is not the case.

The team has improved dramatically since the end of the season and they were already the best in the division so your argument that everyone else in the division got better but we did not is not accurate at all.

I like this draft because they added quality pieces to enhance the direction we have been headed that will be clear insurance policies should we lose some FAs after the season. We added another solid piece at the 3 technique to back up Hill as well as another piece that can rotate in on the edge.

We needed help at CB and got it with Taylor-Britt, whom I believe will push Apple strongly for playing time. Daxson has the coverage skill of a corner so he is certainly a piece that could figure in the mix if necessary. 

Bengals fans need to get used to picking low in the draft because this is a new era!

[Emeritus]

(05-04-2022, 03:29 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Why does one aspect of the offseason count more than the other?

We did our major work in free agency.  We signed 3 starting O-linemen that will immediately improve the team DRASTICALLY.  Did Baltimore or Pittsburgh do that?  Nope.  

We didn't need to be collect star players - we already have them - Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Reader, Hendrickson etc..

The reality is that we were one DB injury away from a disaster last year.  Remember the prior year when we lined up 3 practice squad guys against Baltimore?


I'm not sure who these analytic guys are that you claim agree that we didn't address our needs.  We had our needs addressed in free agency and took the best guys on the board in the draft.  That's how you run an offseason.

Why didn't you include Evan McPherson in your star players? Hes Bitcoins!

[NUGDUKWE]

(05-04-2022, 07:29 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Sorry but your post is silliness. We needed depth most of all in the defensive backfield and especially in the form of covering TEs and RBs. We go that and did it in spades. This defensive backfield can be ran out with multiple different looks now that can be run with the same personnel groupings. 

TE was already addressed with the signing of Hayden Hurst, whom I personally think will be a real asset to this offense, not to mention that we still have Drew Sample and Moss. I am intrigued with Scotty Washington myself and would really like to see him push for playing time given his receiving skills. He is up to almost 250 pounds of what appears to be solid weight.

LT -  Jonah Williams/D' Ante Smith
LG - Carman/Volson/
C - Ted Karras/Trey Hill
RG - Alex Cappa/Volson
RT - Lael Collins/Prince/Carman

That is without even accounting for them bringing in Ben Brown from Ole Miss. You act as if the offensive line has not been addressed at all since the end of the season. That clearly is not the case.

The team has improved dramatically since the end of the season and they were already the best in the division so your argument that everyone else in the division got better but we did not is not accurate at all.

I like this draft because they added quality pieces to enhance the direction we have been headed that will be clear insurance policies should we lose some FAs after the season. We added another solid piece at the 3 technique to back up Hill as well as another piece that can rotate in on the edge.

We needed help at CB and got it with Taylor-Britt, whom I believe will push Apple strongly for playing time. Daxson has the coverage skill of a corner so he is certainly a piece that could figure in the mix if necessary. 

Bengals fans need to get used to picking low in the draft because this is a new era!

Again I'm not the OP. But as someone that also wasn't the biggest fan of the draft. It wasn't necessarily the players. We needed depth in the secondary and needed players that could cause turnovers and I certainly think we got that in Dax and CTB. I just would've like to increase picks instead of shedding them. I know we like our starters for the most part but we can all agree I think that we got lucky health wise last year. So spreading out the depth a bit more would've been what I wanted. I know we're talking about late picks but we could've gotten a LB, a DT that fit more of the true 3T mold, a 4th WR with returning experience or double dipped on the Oline with someone like Lecitus Smith or someone like that with LG experience. The draft is over and I'm fine with it. My thought before the draft was that the Bengals had enough money to sign a player or two but why not wait until after the draft so you know where you need those players. So we'll wait and see I hope the Bengals continue to add hopefully to the OL. But I am still worried about LB just with depth and worried we won't get so lucky with injuries again.

[Emeritus]

(05-04-2022, 09:12 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Again I'm not the OP. But as someone that also wasn't the biggest fan of the draft. It wasn't necessarily the players. We needed depth in the secondary and needed players that could cause turnovers and I certainly think we got that in Dax and CTB. I just would've like to increase picks instead of shedding them. I know we like our starters for the most part but we can all agree I think that we got lucky health wise last year. So spreading out the depth a bit more would've been what I wanted. I know we're talking about late picks but we could've gotten a LB, a DT that fit more of the true 3T mold, a 4th WR with returning experience or double dipped on the Oline with someone like Lecitus Smith or someone like that with LG experience. The draft is over and I'm fine with it. My thought before the draft was that the Bengals had enough money to sign a player or two but why not wait until after the draft so you know where you need those players. So we'll wait and see I hope the Bengals continue to add hopefully to the OL. But I am still worried about LB just with depth and worried we won't get so lucky with injuries again.