Jackson Carman confident he can be the Bengals starting left guard

[Soonerpeace]

(05-27-2022, 04:34 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It actually makes the most sense to think that he was in on meetings pre-draft. I doubt he sits in his office picking his nose all day, so more than likely, he's at least in meetings seeing who is on the radar. He may sit back and let others make the decision but i don't doubt that he knew who the Bengals were targeting in all rounds.

It sounds like PA reached out to MB, offering advice and was surprised to hear him ask specifically about Carman, first. 

This discussion on Mike Brown picking Carman doesn’t really matter. It’s a 3 way decision between Zac,Mike, and Duke. Mike might have been a big proponent of Carman. Carman was a legit pick and was a leader and solid performer at Clemson. He played in a winning environment. He checked a lot of boxes. If Alexander swayed Mike then so be it. Carman looks to be much more focused, in better shape, and intent on proving himself. I like what I hear.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-27-2022, 05:04 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: This discussion on Mike Brown picking Carman doesn’t really matter. It’s a 3 way decision between Zac,Mike, and Duke. Mike might have been a big proponent of Carman. Carman was a legit pick and was a leader and solid performer at Clemson. He played in a winning environment. He checked a lot of boxes. If Alexander swayed Mike then so be it. Carman looks to be much more focused, in better shape, and intent on proving himself. I like what I hear.

I don't think it matters either. I also don't think he was really swayed. If MB asked about him, it was probably more just confirmation on how they felt about him. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-27-2022, 02:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Starting Livings over Mathis, keeping Gutcheck at Center all those years, trading up for Bodine etc.

I can forgive the Fisher pick, he had a heart problem no one knew about.

True about Fisher....he might've panned out eventually if not for that. No way to tell for sure 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-27-2022, 03:45 PM)Synric Wrote: Every team in the NFL is getting information from Paul Alexander. 

He is becoming of the of the premier go to guys offensive line prospects work out with right before the draft for a couple days so PA can give them evaluations for scouting departments.

Are they hitting ketchup bottles for getting the stamp of approval?

I get it, he was a McNally disciple, but his last few years of work were terrible. Dallas shit canned him halfway through a season....the dumpster fire here....I guess information is information, and you can't get enough of it. If Carman fails after the Ced Ole' and Fisher fiasco, that's a pretty damning indictment from Bengaldom.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-27-2022, 05:59 PM)Wyche Wrote: True about Fisher....he might've panned out eventually if not for that. No way to tell for sure 

I actually liked that pick. Thought he played really good at Oregon. He was a good pass protector.

No way to tell is the truth with Fish.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-27-2022, 06:08 PM)Wyche Wrote: Are they hitting ketchup bottles for getting the stamp of approval?

I get it, he was a McNally disciple, but his last few years of work were terrible. Dallas shit canned him halfway through a season....the dumpster fire here....I guess information is information, and you can't get enough of it. If Carman fails after the Ced Ole' and Fisher fiasco, that's a pretty damning indictment from Bengaldom.

If the back injury ends up not being a problem I highly doubt Carman fails. He has that much talent and he will learn.

The only way I see Carman failing is because the back injury lingers or Volson just outright outplays him.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-27-2022, 06:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If the back injury ends up not being a problem I highly doubt Carman fails. He has that much talent and he will learn.

The only way I see Carman failing is because the back injury lingers or Volson just outright outplays him.

Totally agree.

[MickMack]

7 pages of whether Paul Alexander went all Inception and planted the Carman pick in Mike Brown's brain. Don't people have better things to do? Organizations miss on draft picks all the time.

[*jason*]

(05-27-2022, 07:24 PM)MickMack Wrote: 7 pages of whether Paul Alexander went all Inception and planted the Carman pick in Mike Brown's brain. Don't people have better things to do? Organizations miss on draft picks all the time.

They usually don't chalk it up as a miss so few games into a player's career though. In fairness the organization isn't calling him a miss. The people who didn't like the pick when it happened are.

[*jason*]

(05-27-2022, 06:08 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Are they hitting ketchup bottles for getting the stamp of approval?

I get it, he was a McNally disciple, but his last few years of work were terrible. Dallas shit canned him halfway through a season....the dumpster fire here....I guess information is information, and you can't get enough of it. If Carman fails after the Ced Ole' and Fisher fiasco, that's a pretty damning indictment from Bengaldom.

Everyone loves Pollack and his lines haven't been worth a damn here either though. Doesn't exactly take a guru to be a better man than Jim Turner, and "coach up" the players he had in Dallas either.

[Frank Booth]

(05-27-2022, 07:48 PM)jason Wrote: Everyone loves Pollack and his lines haven't been worth a damn here either though. Doesn't exactly take a guru to be a better man than Jim Turner, and "coach up" the players he had in Dallas either.

Pollack at least lasted a few seasons in Dallas. Alexander got fired almost immediately

And you need talent. Adeniji and Prince are the opposite of talents

[OBX Bengal]

(05-27-2022, 07:24 PM)MickMack Wrote: 7 pages of whether Paul Alexander went all Inception and planted the Carman pick in Mike Brown's brain.  Don't people have better things to do?  Organizations miss on draft picks all the time.

Between the old board and the new board, I have been following the core group here for maybe 15  years or longer.  And to answer your question, no we don’t have anything better to do.  This is who we are.  And seven pages is nothing more than a good start.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-27-2022, 08:12 PM)OBX Bengal Wrote: Between the old board and the new board, I have been following the core group here for maybe 15  years or longer.  And to answer your question, no we don’t have anything better to do.  This is who we are.  And seven pages is nothing more than a good start.

Lol, so true...

[Soonerpeace]

(05-27-2022, 07:24 PM)MickMack Wrote: 7 pages of whether Paul Alexander went all Inception and planted the Carman pick in Mike Brown's brain. Don't people have better things to do? Organizations miss on draft picks all the time.

All Star Post

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-27-2022, 12:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree with pretty much all of this. I don't care who wins the job at LG as long as he plays decent and the guy that wins it isn't
clearly worse than the guy behind him. Hate seeing this from our coaching. Late last season Adeniji was so weak it was pathetic,
I don't want that on my OL and I am sure Pollack didn't either but Adeniji was injured, Carman must of been injured, Spain was
injured etc.

Volson was the perfect pick to push Carman and be a backup everywhere on the OL except maybe Center? I don't know if he 
has played there much, but you can see him working out there in rookie minicamp and the dude exudes work ethic.

Brandon Williams was the monster DT of the Ravens Carman took for a ride BTW SHRacer.

Ah, yes...thanks man.  

One thing I heard about Volson that pins him more as a guard has to do with an off-balance kick slide.  Sure, it is something they can try to teach, but the guy has played 5 full seasons.  Old habits.  They seem to feel it won't be as big an issue at guard.

And when you described that about our coaching...I try to be a realist and think "what did they do in practice?".  Well, one thing is for certain, neither Adeniji, Carman, nor Smith took snaps with the first team all during preseason and training camp.  It was XSF at RG.  He got hurt the 2nd game.  Then it is learn on the fly.  I think some evidence of this was the expansion of the coaching staff specifically for the offensive line.  They can have more guys working with each individual guy to try and bring them up to speed.  


When I look at a guy like Prince, he actually graded out fairly well as a run blocker, but struggled in pass protection.  He did, however, improve both marks by about 10 points compared to his time in Miami.  If he can take that step again, you have a very serviceable backup RT. 

I think a part of what happened to Adeniji was the old "square peg, round hole".  He is a tackle.  Playing him at guard was out of necessity.  I'm sure they thought his body could adjust, but he just couldn't adapt to the bigger, stronger inside DTs.  His game is speed and balance.  I don't mean to say he can't improve, but I really see him and Smith fighting for the other backup tackle spot.  Maybe they carry all three (Smith, Adeniji, and Prince and think of Smith as a backup tackle and swing guy that could also play guard.  

Trey Hill is one that puzzles me.  He is a massive man and strength is supposed to be his best asset, but he consistently grades out better as a pass blocker than a run blocker.  His overall grades would be pretty good, but he has a whopping 6 penalties in just 210 snaps.  Zero sacks and only one pressure in those snaps, but those penalties are killers.  I think he just got away with a lot of holds in college.  

They kind of need him as a backup center.  I haven't seen Hopkins signed anywhere yet.  I would rather have him as a backup center and guard than Hill and believe he could be better the second year off surgery.  He didn't get much credit for what he did coming back so quickly off the surgery and I also believe he would grade out better with better talent around him.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-27-2022, 05:04 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: This discussion on Mike Brown picking Carman doesn’t really matter. It’s a 3 way decision between Zac,Mike, and Duke. Mike might have been a big proponent of Carman. Carman was a legit pick and was a leader and solid performer at Clemson. He played in a winning environment. He checked a lot of boxes. If Alexander swayed Mike then so be it. Carman looks to be much more focused, in better shape, and intent on proving himself. I like what I hear.

I have said it many times over the years:  Mike is more of a figure head now that just likes being around the team.  Katie and Troy Blackburn are Mike now.  Duke is the GM, without the title.  Zac Taylor has a lot to do with the players selected as well, and from what I understand, Zac likes all his position coaches and coordinators to feel like they have a say.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-27-2022, 08:12 PM)OBX Bengal Wrote: Between the old board and the new board, I have been following the core group here for maybe 15  years or longer.  And to answer your question, no we don’t have anything better to do.  This is who we are.  And seven pages is nothing more than a good start.

Yep, the board always gets a little weird after the draft and before OTAs.  We are like the child whose parent took the toy away so he starts playing with imaginary friends because he can't find anything else to do.

[Soonerpeace]

(05-28-2022, 09:53 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I have said it many times over the years:  Mike is more of a figure head now that just likes being around the team.  Katie and Troy Blackburn are Mike now.  Duke is the GM, without the title.  Zac Taylor has a lot to do with the players selected as well, and from what I understand, Zac likes all his position coaches and coordinators to feel like they have a say.  

That’s aligns with what I’ve been told except on the major picks Mike is very much involved. I hear it’s a joint decision between Zac, Duke, and Mike. They meet and go through all the info and interviews. They meet with the scouting department. I think it’s naive for as long as he’s been involved that he doesn’t have something to bring to the table. And… he’s the owner. It’s got to be a fun part of it all. He’s smart enough to not overrule both Duke and Zac. Like Zac said their selections are not his,Duke, or Mike’s. It’s a group effort

[fredtoast]

(05-28-2022, 09:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Trey Hill is one that puzzles me.  He is a massive man and strength is supposed to be his best asset, but he consistently grades out better as a pass blocker than a run blocker.  His overall grades would be pretty good, but he has a whopping 6 penalties in just 210 snaps.  Zero sacks and only one pressure in those snaps, but those penalties are killers.  I think he just got away with a lot of holds in college. 

I don't know if all his penalties were holding, but there used to be a guy who put out a ranking of O-linemen where a hols was equal to a sack.  if you think about it that makes sense.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-28-2022, 09:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ah, yes...thanks man.  

One thing I heard about Volson that pins him more as a guard has to do with an off-balance kick slide.  Sure, it is something they can try to teach, but the guy has played 5 full seasons.  Old habits.  They seem to feel it won't be as big an issue at guard.

And when you described that about our coaching...I try to be a realist and think "what did they do in practice?".  Well, one thing is for certain, neither Adeniji, Carman, nor Smith took snaps with the first team all during preseason and training camp.  It was XSF at RG.  He got hurt the 2nd game.  Then it is learn on the fly.  I think some evidence of this was the expansion of the coaching staff specifically for the offensive line.  They can have more guys working with each individual guy to try and bring them up to speed.  


When I look at a guy like Prince, he actually graded out fairly well as a run blocker, but struggled in pass protection.  He did, however, improve both marks by about 10 points compared to his time in Miami.  If he can take that step again, you have a very serviceable backup RT. 

I think a part of what happened to Adeniji was the old "square peg, round hole".  He is a tackle.  Playing him at guard was out of necessity.  I'm sure they thought his body could adjust, but he just couldn't adapt to the bigger, stronger inside DTs.  His game is speed and balance.  I don't mean to say he can't improve, but I really see him and Smith fighting for the other backup tackle spot.  Maybe they carry all three (Smith, Adeniji, and Prince and think of Smith as a backup tackle and swing guy that could also play guard.  

Trey Hill is one that puzzles me.  He is a massive man and strength is supposed to be his best asset, but he consistently grades out better as a pass blocker than a run blocker.  His overall grades would be pretty good, but he has a whopping 6 penalties in just 210 snaps.  Zero sacks and only one pressure in those snaps, but those penalties are killers.  I think he just got away with a lot of holds in college.  

They kind of need him as a backup center.  I haven't seen Hopkins signed anywhere yet.  I would rather have him as a backup center and guard than Hill and believe he could be better the second year off surgery.  He didn't get much credit for what he did coming back so quickly off the surgery and I also believe he would grade out better with better talent around him.  

All great points once again. Agree on everything. Funny that they list D'Ante and Adeniji as Guards, cause you are right, they 
are Tackles clearly. That is their body type, D'Ante actually surprised me last Preseason with how good he was right off the bat
all the while doing it at Guard.

Thought D'Ante would be that raw guy that you can coach up to be your future OT on either side. He has the length, feet, hands
and everything you want, just needs to build up his anchor. Adeniji was injured in the Playoffs when he sucked so maybe with a 
full offseason to get healthy and work on his low body strength he might improve as much as I hate on the guy.

Prince was okay. He kind of gets ignored because he wasn't nearly as terrible as Adeniji. He has great length and it is surprising 
he graded out so well in run blocking with said length. Trey Hill had both his knees injured at Georgia, I think this has slowed him
down considerably but he is still young. Maybe with a little work he can get a little more mobile. Hill has a great anchor.

All for bringing back Hop too as a backup to Karras. When he got healthy he was decent.