If You Purchased A Hands Free Car Do You Trust It? Then why Zac

[Soonerpeace]

(06-11-2022, 01:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Same thing happens with players all the time.  If a fan does not like him when he is first drafted then it takes a lot of good play to change a mind.

When we first hired Zac I was not impressed because he did not have much of a resume and brought in a questionable staff who also lacked prior success.   But even after two of the worst seasons ever to begin a coaching career I argued that he deserved another year because of all the injuries we had in 2020.  I gave him a fair chance.

However I still am not 100% sold on him as a head coach.  Despite making it to the Super Bowl the Bengals were far from a dominant team last year.  The people in this thread who said "I don't care if he struggles" are just as bad as the people who wanted him fired after his first two seasons.  Taylor has everything he needs to win it all this year, and I honestly don't expect him to "struggle".  But if he does I don't give a shit how much the players/fans coo about "culture".  Zac has to win games.

And he won some late crucial games with second half adjustments and late 4th quarter and OT results. Can’t be disputed. And the players supported this. He delivered when it counted. But Andy Reid blew some stuff in both our games. It happens

[fredtoast]

(06-11-2022, 04:37 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And he won some late crucial games with second half adjustments and late 4th quarter and OT results. Can’t be disputed. 

We blew a bunch of 4th quarter leads and lost as many overtime games as we won.  Can't be disputed.

I give Zac credit for coaching well enough to keep us in close games, but often times the game was decided more by luck or great individual plays than some brilliant coaching decision.  

[sandwedge]

(06-11-2022, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We blew a bunch of 4th quarter leads and lost as many overtime games as we won.  Can't be disputed.

I give Zac credit for coaching well enough to keep us in close games, but often times the game was decided more by luck or great individual plays than some brilliant coaching decision.  

Huh?  So you are saying the losses were all on Zac and the wins were luck or a player doing his job.....smh

[fredtoast]

(06-11-2022, 06:40 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Huh?  So you are saying the losses were all on Zac and the wins were luck or a player doing his job.....smh

Uh, no.  Not at all.

All I did was point out that even based on the arguments Soonerpeace uses to support Taylor (performance in fourth quarter and overtime) Zac had some issues. We made the playoffs "despite" Zac's record in overtime games (1-2), not because of it.

Even Bill Belichick has won a lot of games in the final seconds because of luck or a great individual performance by a player.  And if you look at my previous post you will see that I gave Zac credit for having us close enough to win in the final seconds.  But none of the big plays in the final seconds were genius coaching moves.  

I also give Zac credit for not screwing up in the final moments of any big games.  After the San Francisco loss a lot of fans were upset with Zac's play calling in overtime (not throwing every down), but I didn't think it was that bad. 

[grampahol]

(06-10-2022, 11:48 PM)Emeritus Wrote:

Its really a great parallel because he hadn't done anything before last season. So how long does the pass last when you were ready to run him out of town the year before.What will you say if he struggles in the first six games this season. What if he struggles.... What will you say?Now You cant go back after saying...

The moral to the story is we're all gonna die, but not right now unless you're really unlucky..  Zac will be fine unless he isn't. You'll die unless you don't. See how that works? 

[sandwedge]

(06-11-2022, 07:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, no.  Not at all.

All I did was point out that even based on the arguments Soonerpeace uses to support Taylor (performance in fourth quarter and overtime) Zac had some issues. We made the playoffs "despite" Zac's record in overtime games (1-2), not because of it.

Even Bill Belichick has won a lot of games in the final seconds because of luck or a great individual performance by a player.  And if you look at my previous post you will see that I gave Zac credit for having us close enough to win in the final seconds.  But none of the big plays in the final seconds were genius coaching moves.  

I also give Zac credit for not screwing up in the final moments of any big games.  After the San Francisco loss a lot of fans were upset with Zac's play calling in overtime (not throwing every down), but I didn't think it was that bad. 

Ah, gotcha!

[Soonerpeace]

(06-11-2022, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We blew a bunch of 4th quarter leads and lost as many overtime games as we won.  Can't be disputed.

I give Zac credit for coaching the Bengals to their first playoff win since 1990, ending the longest active drought in the four major North American sports, en route to an appearance in Super Bowl LVI, the franchise's first since 1988 

FIFY LOL Those were early in the season BTW .

[fredtoast]

(06-12-2022, 09:24 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: FIFY LOL Those were early in the season BTW .

Uh, no they were not.  We blew leads in the 4th quarter or overtime in 3 of our final 5 regular season games (SF. Den. KC) and then again in the playoffs (KC).

[Soonerpeace]

(06-12-2022, 10:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, no they were not.  We blew leads in the 4th quarter or overtime in 3 of our final 5 regular season games (SF. Den. KC) and then again in the playoffs (KC).

LMAO Freddie boy. You are slipping. Denver we outscored and led the entire second half. KC in the AFC Champ we outscored the second half and OT 17-3. The first meeting we outscored KC 17-3 in the second half. SF we outscored 14-3 the second half and lost in OT 6-3. When did we blow second half leads with KC? You can’t rely on your memory any more LOL. We flat played lights out late in the season. Disregarding the last game with the Browns we were 6-2 in our last 8 games. Absolutely produced with the toughest schedule in the NFL for that stretch with 6 of the 8 playoff teams. Red letter performance. And everybody but you on this board will agree with me.

[fredtoast]

(06-12-2022, 11:17 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: LMAO Freddie boy. You are slipping. Denver we outscored and led the entire second half. 

We were both wrong.  Bengals lost a 9-3 lead in the second half on a Drew Lock td pass but it was not in the 4th quarter.

(06-12-2022, 11:17 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote:  When did we blow second half leads with KC? You can’t rely on your memory any more LOL. 

 

First game we lost a 31-28 lead in the fourth quarter when Kansas City kicked a FG with 6 minutes left

Playoff game we lost a 24-21 lead when Chiefs kicked a FG on the final play of regulation.


I am finally starting to understand why you have some of the opinions that you do.  You honestly do not even know what happened in many of these games.

[Soonerpeace]

(06-12-2022, 03:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We were both wrong.  Bengals lost a 9-3 lead in the second half on a Drew Lock td pass but it was not in the 4th quarter.


 

First game we lost a 31-28 lead in the fourth quarter when Kansas City kicked a FG with 6 minutes left

Playoff game we lost a 24-21 lead when Chiefs kicked a FG on the final play of regulation.


I am finally starting to understand why you have some of the opinions that you do.  You honestly do not even know what happened in many of these games.

Both your examples: KC with Patrick Mahomes and their offense overcame 3 point deficits in the fourth quarter? Oh my what a crap defense . Say hello Buffalo. That’s your example of poor defense? That’s sad Fred. Do better sir.

[fredtoast]

(06-12-2022, 11:17 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote:  We flat played lights out late in the season. Disregarding the last game with the Browns we were 6-2 in our last 8 games. Absolutely produced with the toughest schedule in the NFL for that stretch with 6 of the 8 playoff teams. Red letter performance. And everybody but you on this board will agree with me.

We both agree that the Bengals got hot for 6 wins in our last 8 games.

The difference is that you think those six wins mean we were a great team while I look at all 20 games.

Plus even when we were "hot" we won half of our games on the last play of the game with one of them requiring a 3rd-and-27 conversion.  And in 2 other one-score wins (Den, LV) the opposing team turned the ball over inside their own 10 yard line in the 4th quarter.

We were far from a great team.  We gave up a lot of yards and needed a lot of breaks to win by the skin of our teeth.

[Soonerpeace]

(06-12-2022, 03:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We both agree that the Bengals got hot for 6 wins in our last 8 games.

The difference is that you think those six wins mean we were a great team while I look at all 20 games.

Plus even when we were "hot" we won half of our games on the last play of the game with one of them requiring a 3rd-and-27 conversion.  And in 2 other one-score wins (Den, LV) the opposing team turned the ball over inside their own 10 yard line in the 4th quarter.

We were far from a great team.  We gave up a lot of yards and needed a lot of breaks to win by the skin of our teeth.

I don’t disagree with the majority of that. We differ in that I see a much improved team after the bye week. I see a team who had to develop a winning culture and did. You want to look at the 20 game season that’s fine. When you win 6-8 last games versus 6 playoff teams and beat the Titans and KC on the road I don’t classify it as hot. KC made some dramatic plays to beat the Bills in the last 2 minutes of their playoff game. Converting on third and 27 is no different. It’s the playoffs and the NFL. Keep your jaundiced view of this staff. You are going to be awfully miserable because Taylor has a full 5 year contract for double what he was making and historically he’ll be here through the most of it.

[t3r3e3]

(06-11-2022, 01:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Same thing happens with players all the time.  If a fan does not like him when he is first drafted then it takes a lot of good play to change a mind.

When we first hired Zac I was not impressed because he did not have much of a resume and brought in a questionable staff who also lacked prior success.   But even after two of the worst seasons ever to begin a coaching career I argued that he deserved another year because of all the injuries we had in 2020.  I gave him a fair chance.

However I still am not 100% sold on him as a head coach.  Despite making it to the Super Bowl the Bengals were far from a dominant team last year.  The people in this thread who said "I don't care if he struggles" are just as bad as the people who wanted him fired after his first two seasons.  Taylor has everything he needs to win it all this year, and I honestly don't expect him to "struggle".  But if he does I don't give a shit how much the players/fans coo about "culture".  Zac has to win games.

I agree with Fred on all points. Zac has a competitive roster, his system in place, and the expectation should be Playoffs or better.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Bad thread is bad.....

[*michaelsean*]

I don't know what trust has to do with it. I have no say. I hope he does a good job.

[Nickslycat]

This is the bottom line. Bill Bellicheat never won a damn thing until Brady was his qb.
Taylor will receive the benefits of having the next “Brady”.
The San Fran game was a example of bad coaching, he took thei ball out of Burrow’s hands.
Taylor will one day soon, be considered one of the best coaches in the NFL, not because he is a great coach, but because he has Burrow
He is smart enough to get out of the way, Burrow will be calling his own plays this year.
Who effing dey!

[Nepa]

(06-11-2022, 09:14 AM)PDub80 Wrote: 1: I don't care if he struggles. I'm not of the opinion ZT "got lucky". ZT out coached some great coaches and got his players to overcome a TON of adversity in HUGE games as well as buy into what his vision was and how he wanted to do it.

I just rewatched the Bengals-KC playoff game on NFL network and was impressed with how composed ZT was in even the most tense of situations. In retrospect, I also enjoyed his smile in overtime when Apple dropped the potential game-winning interception. I think his calmness and confidence spreads to the players.

I also really enjoyed watching Burrow's calm demeanor in that game. At one point, in a very tense moment, he even broke out into a broad smile. Not a Ryan Finley "I-don't-belong-here-but-this-is-fun" smile, but a composed, confident smile in a moment of great pressure. 

[Soonerpeace]

(06-13-2022, 03:43 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: This is the bottom line. Bill Bellicheat never won a damn thing until Brady was his qb.
Taylor will receive the benefits of having the next “Brady”.
The San Fran game was a example of bad coaching, he took thei ball out of Burrow’s hands.
Taylor will one day soon, be considered one of the best coaches in the NFL, not because he is a great coach, but because he has Burrow
He is smart enough to get out of the way, Burrow will be calling his own plays this year.
Who effing dey!

Great post but Joe will never call his own plays. They give him 2 plays. It’s based on the two most likely defenses. He’s been told to call the play 1 and goes to 1A if the defense changes. Doesn’t mean he can’t change it all but does only about 5 or so times a game. Some day he may get the latitude Peyton Manning got. He’s not there yet.

[Sled21]

In reference to Zac's play calling, people need to realize his playbook was severely hampered for the last 2 years by the offensive line not being capable of holding up for more than a second or two. With a totally revamped Center-Right side of the line, with players who all grade well in the run game as well as pass pro, I am really looking to see Taylor open up the full playbook this year. The only question will be Left Guard. I suspect Carman will hold that position quite well this season, if he doesn't he'll be replaced with someone who can.... and we can always run right.