LG Solutions

[SouthernStripes]

There are varying opinions on what should be done about the LG position. Defenses got pressure on Burrow pretty frequently through the interior of the OL last season. While a starter hasn't been declared, it looks like it's currently Carman's spot to lose. Behind him is the Rookie Volson. Do they both improve playing with the #1's? There are a few options on the street like Spain and Daryl Williams. Could a Bates sign and trade bring in someone from another team?
The OL depth is worrisome. If any of the backups have to play at any point this season, I'm not sure they will ever clean up the big play/drive killing penalties/sacks/pressures we saw last season and last night(I know it's preseason). I'd be okay with Spain, but a guy like Williams plays Guard and Tackle.
Do we wait and see who is cut before the season starts? Or do you sign Tretter and move Karras to Guard?
What do you think Who Dey Nation?
 

[SouthernStripes]

While Williams is 30, he hasn't missed a game the last 3 seasons and played solid for Buffalo. Being able to play G and T might give him a leg up on Spain for depth purposes. Ereck Flowers 28, is another FA that's available.

[*pally*]

(08-13-2022, 02:24 PM)SouthernStripes Wrote: While Williams is 30, he hasn't missed a game the last 3 seasons and played solid for Buffalo. Being able to play G and T might give him a leg up on Spain for depth purposes. Ereck Flowers 28, is another FA that's available.

There is a reason that Ereck Flowers has played on 5 teams in his career and it is because he is really bad.  If we are going for bad linemen, we might as well resign Billy Price.  He is also still on the street and has experience at both center and left guard on this team

The most logical move, if we don't see improvement from either Carmen or Volson is to sign Spain who is familiar with the system. But as much as we fans like Spain, there must have been a reason he wasn't resigned by the Bengals and hasn't even had a visit to another team.  There is more to this story than we know.

[fredtoast]

I believe there is a reason there has not even been a rumor of any team checking out Spain. I am not sure if he is healthy/available.

No way do I want to sign Tretter with his bad knees. I don't care if he made it through last season I don't want to denpend on getting 21 games out of him.

I like Volson, but doubt he will be ready to start as a rookie.

I honestly think we will just stick with Carman, but we still need depth at OT.

So I am waiting to see who gets cut or traded at the end of camp. We did not trade for Hill until the end of August last year.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-13-2022, 03:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No way do I want to sign Tretter with his bad knees.  I don't care if he made it through last season I don't want to denpend on getting 21 games out of him.

19

Sit Week 18 because they already have the first round playoff bye locked in.  

Guy hasn't missed a single SNAP in 5 years besides the 1 game he missed due to COVID. If he says he's ready to go (I don't know if he has) then I am ready to believe him.

[*bfine32*]

I thought this thread was about electronics

[SunsetBengal]

I'm not going to lie, I was disappointed that Jackson Carman still showed the same issues that were problematic for him last season (poor hand placement, hips too high, lack of recognition on stunts/twists) particularly after the beat writers had been talking him up from camp. Volson has all of the physical tools and less bad habits to break, however he does need a good bit of coaching before he's ready for live action. I have a feeling that once he grows into the complexities of the pro game, mainly learning to anticipate angled attacks, stunts and such, he'll be a steady if not good to very good Guard.

Bottom line, it's too early to panic about Left Guard. However, the panic about backup Tackle should be Defcon 5.

[phil413]

Yeah Williams is the best fit but will probably get a descent deal from a team desperate for a tackle soon. Peters, Shell and Fischer are in the same boat, maybe one takes less. I'd like to see them offer 4-5 M to have Williams solidify LG and even slide to tackle if need be though.

Spain just makes sense since others have stated continuity and he may take less. An old journeyman that can play both T and G at a below average level would be great at this point. Someone like Mike Remmers even.

I'm not sure we have a plan behind Jonah, unless we would move Collins over in emergency but you need a capable RT. Prince not holding up at LT last night was bad, they want him to be a swing tackle but he isn't far behind Adeniji in being cut worthy.

[Frank Booth]

(08-13-2022, 03:44 PM)phil413 Wrote: Yeah Williams is the best fit but will probably get a descent deal from a team desperate for a tackle soon. Peters, Shell and Fischer are in the same boat, maybe one takes less. I'd like to see them offer 4-5 M to have Williams solidify LG and even slide to tackle if need be though.

Spain just makes sense since others have stated continuity and he may take less. An old journeyman that can play both T and G at a below average level would be great at this point. Someone like Mike Remmers even.

I'm not sure we have a plan behind Jonah, unless we would move Collins over in emergency but you need a capable RT. Prince not holding up at LT last night was bad, they want him to be a swing tackle but he isn't far behind Adeniji in being cut worthy.

I think if Jonah goes down, Collins goes to the left side

[phil413]

(08-13-2022, 04:00 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I think if Jonah goes down, Collins goes to the left side

I think you're right, but we still need a capable backup RT.  If by next week we don't see someone step up they're going to have to get ahead of roster cuts and pony up for a vet that can play LG or RT so we don't have 2 holes in that scenario.  

[J24]

Isn't Williams a RG/ RT than a LG?

[*Synric*]

D'Ante Smith is day to day so it wouldnt surprise me if he is practicing at LG a little this week.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-13-2022, 03:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not going to lie, I was disappointed that Jackson Carman still showed the same issues that were problematic for him last season (poor hand placement, hips too high, lack of recognition on stunts/twists) particularly after the beat writers had been talking him up from camp.  Volson has all of the physical tools and less bad habits to break, however he does need a good bit of coaching before he's ready for live action.  I have a feeling that once he grows into the complexities of the pro game, mainly learning to anticipate angled attacks, stunts and such, he'll be a steady if not good to very good Guard.

Bottom line, it's too early to panic about Left Guard.  However, the panic about backup Tackle should be Defcon 5 1.

FTFY

I'm thinking you meant the highest level of panic?

[Essex Johnson]

Too early to just move away from Carman as starter game plan, now if he continues to play subpar as he has the next 2 games, with the extra week now before opening game and after final cuts on Aug. 30th I could see them looking at what is out there

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-13-2022, 04:18 PM)Synric Wrote: D'Ante Smith is day to day so it wouldnt surprise me if he is practicing at LG a little this week.

We really need him to prove he can be the backup tackle and unseat Prince.  He is built more like a tackle.  The problem is he is incredibly inexperienced and, apparently, very fragile.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-13-2022, 03:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not going to lie, I was disappointed that Jackson Carman still showed the same issues that were problematic for him last season (poor hand placement, hips too high, lack of recognition on stunts/twists) particularly after the beat writers had been talking him up from camp.  Volson has all of the physical tools and less bad habits to break, however he does need a good bit of coaching before he's ready for live action.  I have a feeling that once he grows into the complexities of the pro game, mainly learning to anticipate angled attacks, stunts and such, he'll be a steady if not good to very good Guard.

Bottom line, it's too early to panic about Left Guard.  However, the panic about backup Tackle should be Defcon 5.

Carman and Volson both stood out, but in different ways.  Volson was probably the best lineman that played that first preseason game.  He was aggressive and FINISHED plays.  Clearly, the opportunity meant something to him.  Maybe Carman is just too passive.  When did he need to show a newer, more consistent version of himself more than that first game?  And he looked lost a number of times.  

I am not giving up on him, but maybe he just thought he would dominate those backups instead of respecting the guys fighting for jobs at the end of a roster.  Either way, he is sure not impressing anyone.  

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-14-2022, 12:48 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Carman and Volson both stood out, but in different ways.  Volson was probably the best lineman that played that first preseason game.  He was aggressive and FINISHED plays.  Clearly, the opportunity meant something to him.  Maybe Carman is just too passive.  When did he need to show a newer, more consistent version of himself more than that first game?  And he looked lost a number of times.  

I am not giving up on him, but maybe he just thought he would dominate those backups instead of respecting the guys fighting for jobs at the end of a roster.  Either way, he is sure not impressing anyone.  

I just rewatched the offense. I didn't see anywhere he looked "lost". He was really bad in the 1st quarter in passpro, simply getting beat 1 on 1 and he was way late on a stunt once. He cleaned it up a bit in the 2nd quarter but a lot of those were combo blocks. 

He was very strong in the run game getting to the second level quick and finishing blocks and one time he pulled right and took his guy way out of the play. 

His PFF grades bear that out. Good in the run game and bad in pass blocking.

Give him a couple hundred snaps and i think you'll start to see him get the 1 on 1 pass blocks ironed out. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-14-2022, 02:33 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I just rewatched the offense. I didn't see anywhere he looked "lost". He was really bad in the 1st quarter in passpro, simply getting beat 1 on 1 and he was way late on a stunt once. He cleaned it up a bit in the 2nd quarter but a lot of those were combo blocks. 

He was very strong in the run game getting to the second level quick and finishing blocks and one time he pulled right and took his guy way out of the play. 

His PFF grades bear that out. Good in the run game and bad in pass blocking.

Give him a couple hundred snaps and i think you'll start to see him get the 1 on 1 pass blocks ironed out. 

There was one (I forget the game time, but I can look for it) where he completely whiffed, or missed the assignment and the defender went right by him.  Just really inexcusable at this point.  I will look for the finishing blocks, as all I kept saying to myself watching him was "bored, uninterested, and flat".   

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

Sign Tretter, move Kareas to LG.

Williams, Karras, Tretter, Cappa, Collins.

Let Carman & Volson develop as the backup G's.

Smith + 1 at OT (Prince or a camp cut vet).

Karras is effectively the backup C, but Brown/Hill for the number 3 slot.

Cut Adeniji. Or PS.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-14-2022, 02:33 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I just rewatched the offense. I didn't see anywhere he looked "lost". He was really bad in the 1st quarter in passpro, simply getting beat 1 on 1 and he was way late on a stunt once. He cleaned it up a bit in the 2nd quarter but a lot of those were combo blocks. 

He was very strong in the run game getting to the second level quick and finishing blocks and one time he pulled right and took his guy way out of the play. 

His PFF grades bear that out. Good in the run game and bad in pass blocking.

Give him a couple hundred snaps and i think you'll start to see him get the 1 on 1 pass blocks ironed out. 

I just looked it up on PFF.  Carman had a 19.3 in 21 pass blocking snaps....against backups.  For comparison (I know he played against even further down the depth chart guys) Volson had a 67.0 in the same number of 21 pass blocking snaps.

Volson had a 73.6 in 13 run blocking snaps.  Carman had a 67.3 in 12 run-blocking snaps.  

The only person with a worse score than Carman in any measure was Adeniji's pathetic 14.1 in 33 pass blocking snaps at RT.  

Again, not hating on Carman, but he has received the most snaps in camp with the first team offense and has had the most snaps in general.  He's healthy, and he was flaming poo.  He needs to show something next week or it is time to give up on hope as a strategy because the guy simply doesn't deserve the starting LG job at this point.