Deep Dive

[EatonFan]

Good solid analysis. I agree with most everything. I think Carter may be better than what he says, but he points out the strengths and weaknesses of our team pretty well. Volson I think will win the LG position too.

I didn't see this anywhere else... so...

https://youtu.be/TfUjDXwq3Yk

[*bengalfan74*]

I agree with a good bit of what he says as well.

I will say though that I'm willing to give Taylor and Callahan a bit of a break on playcalling and scheme just because (here it comes) they've been hamstrung by the awfulness of the Oline.

This season will tell the tale on what the coaching is or isn't.

[Frank Booth]

his pass block rating on carman is way too high

[EatonFan]

(08-26-2022, 12:18 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: his pass block rating on carman is way too high

Yeah.  I think Volson is going to be the starter.

I also agree that the coach's play calling was a bit hamstrung due to the oline.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-26-2022, 12:18 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: his pass block rating on carman is way too high

Fun Fact - In over 500 offensive snaps played last year, Carman did not allow a single sack.
He did allow some pressures and you're definitely right that he had some ugly pass sets, but it never resulted in a sack that was assigned to him.

[*psychdoctor*]

(08-26-2022, 01:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Fun Fact - In over 500 offensive snaps played last year, Carman did not allow a single sack.
He did allow some pressures and you're definitely right that he had some ugly pass sets, but it never resulted in a sack that was assigned to him.

He's more than adequate Rush blocker and I think slow coming out of his stance is what's given him problems on past protection

[*ochocincos*]

(08-26-2022, 01:42 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: He's more than adequate Rush blocker and I think slow coming out of his stance is what's given him problems on past protection

For sure.

I don't want there to be implication that I think Carman is a good pass blocker by just pointing out that there was not a sack assigned to him in the 500+ snaps he played.
But even so, a 68 PB rating by the guy in this video still means replacement-level quality.
70-75 is ok starter, 76-80 is good starter, 81-85 is "stud."

The guy in the video is aligned with me in a lot of the assessment.
Jonah and Collins are good-to-great players.
I, like this video guy, was not overly excited about Karras and Cappa because I'm not sure how well they can move. Cappa is definitely an upgrade though at RG, and Karras is at least an upgrade in the run game over Hopkins. Might be some drop off in quality when it comes to pass block though.
We agree that the depth is pretty terrible, especially when it comes to pass blocking.

[*Synric*]

(08-26-2022, 01:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Fun Fact - In over 500 offensive snaps played last year, Carman did not allow a single sack.
He did allow some pressures and you're definitely right that he had some ugly pass sets, but it never resulted in a sack that was assigned to him.

Charmin's worst games were Green Bay, Kansas City, and Tennessee. He really needs to be more patient and vary his pass sets.

[Gdale_Bengal]

Well, at this point Carman, Hill and whomever else trying for that starting lg spot hasn’t played any better than a target dummy. I just hope whomever wins that spot is at least competent and can pick up late stunts.

[Frank Booth]

(08-26-2022, 01:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Fun Fact - In over 500 offensive snaps played last year, Carman did not allow a single sack.

Fred? Is that you?

[fredtoast]

(08-26-2022, 12:17 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I will say though that I'm willing to give Taylor and Callahan a bit of a break on playcalling and scheme just because (here it comes) they've been hamstrung by the awfulness of the Oline.

I am often accused of hating on Taylor, but I 100% agree with this.

Plus criticizing play calling is always kind of sketchy because many times the call is questioned just because it did not work.  When the same call in the same situation works at a different time no one criticizes it.

No one complains when a team with a lead burns the clock by running the ball in the second half and wins.  But if the other teams comes back and wins the fans will say it was stupid to "take the foot off the gas".

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-26-2022, 09:32 AM)EatonFan Wrote: Good solid analysis.  I agree with most everything.  I think Carter may be better than what he says, but he points out the strengths and weaknesses of our team pretty well.  Volson I think will win the LG position too.

I didn't see this anywhere else... so...

https://youtu.be/TfUjDXwq3Yk

Dude is really good at what he does. I also agree with a lot, but I will be honest and am a bit offended by the lack of respect 
for Hendrickson's pass rush, Hubbard's run stopping ability and Hilton's playmaking ability in every aspect. These guys are elite
players at these things. Also disagreed with him on CTB and saying we overdrafted him, I had him as a mid 2nd rounder and 
we traded up a few picks and got him.

Hendrickson's pass Defense should be ranked in the 90's, Hubbard's run Defense in the 90's, Hilton is the best Slot WR in the 
NFL, Bates is overrated in his run Defense big time by this guy. I could say more that I disagree with but I agree with his thoughts
on Taylor and Callahan and the playcalling on Offense but these guys are young and have shown significant growth in these areas.

No reason to think they just stop growing in these things.

Overall great vid and he knows a lot about football. He cannot be blamed for not seeing Zach Carter or Cordell Volson/Carman in 
the Preseason so far so he gets off on that but saying that a lot of teams have a 3rd End better than Sam Hubbard honestly just 
was very offensive especially after what he did against Mahomes in the AFC Championship game and what he did all last season.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-26-2022, 07:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Dude is really good at what he does. I also agree with a lot, but I will be honest and am a bit offended by the lack of respect 
for Hendrickson's pass rush, Hubbard's run stopping ability and Hilton's playmaking ability in every aspect. These guys are elite
players at these things. Also disagreed with him on CTB and saying we overdrafted him, I had him as a mid 2nd rounder and 
we traded up a few picks and got him.

Hendrickson's pass Defense should be ranked in the 90's, Hubbard's run Defense in the 90's, Hilton is the best Slot WR in the 
NFL, Bates is overrated in his run Defense big time by this guy. I could say more that I disagree with but I agree with his thoughts
on Taylor and Callahan and the playcalling on Offense but these guys are young and have shown significant growth in these areas.

No reason to think they just stop growing in these things.

Overall great vid and he knows a lot about football. He cannot be blamed for not seeing Zach Carter or Cordell Volson/Carman in 
the Preseason so far so he gets off on that but saying that a lot of teams have a 3rd End better than Sam Hubbard honestly just 
was very offensive especially after what he did against Mahomes in the AFC Championship game and what he did all last season.

He used to be a great CB as well. Guys multi talented

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-26-2022, 09:06 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: He used to be a great CB as well. Guys multi talented

Best pass rushing Corner in the NFL for sure. Mike Hilton is special, I understand why some Bengal fans find him to be their fave 
on the entire Defense. Hendrickson is an elite pass rusher and also understand that, DJ Reader like this dude said is probably the 
2nd best NT in the NFL behind Vita Vea, Hubbard is the BEST run stopping Edge in the NFL though and this guy has him rated at 
75 or something in this department and says most team's have End3's better than Sam Hubbard?

Absurd, even if he knows a lot. This just irked me a bit. Same with his Bates love who DID play great in the Playoffs but was just
okay at best the entire regular season. Why the Bates love in the Playoffs and no Hubbard love?

[EatonFan]

(08-26-2022, 09:41 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Best pass rushing Corner in the NFL for sure. Mike Hilton is special, I understand why some Bengal fans find him to be their fave 
on the entire Defense. Hendrickson is an elite pass rusher and also understand that, DJ Reader like this dude said is probably the 
2nd best NT in the NFL behind Vita Vea, Hubbard is the BEST run stopping Edge in the NFL though and this guy has him rated at 
75 or something in this department and says most team's have End3's better than Sam Hubbard?

Absurd, even if he knows a lot. This just irked me a bit. Same with his Bates love who DID play great in the Playoffs but was just
okay at best the entire regular season. Why the Bates love in the Playoffs and no Hubbard love?

Yeah he was a bit harsh on Hubbard.  He's elite against the run and average in pass rush, but he's got a great motor.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-26-2022, 12:17 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I agree with a good bit of what he says as well.

I will say though that I'm willing to give Taylor and Callahan a bit of a break on playcalling and scheme just because (here it comes) they've been hamstrung by the awfulness of the Oline.

This season will tell the tale on what the coaching is or isn't.

Dead on.  I think how they adjusted to what they had, and how efficient they were in the "middle eight" minutes of a game...4 min before and after halftime...was very impressive.  I understand the slander on the predictability of the run game, but as "run game coordinator", I will put some of that on Pollack.  Hope he has the same kind of elevation that the rest of the coaches did last year when their position groups were improved.

Although it is much harder to quantify in terms of schematic, I also give ZT and staff a huge plus in terms of culture.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-26-2022, 11:54 PM)EatonFan Wrote: Yeah he was a bit harsh on Hubbard.  He's elite against the run and average in pass rush, but he's got a great motor.

Some of the schemes they were able to do with Hubbard (the first Ravens game and the 2nd Chiefs game) are largely overlooked as well.  Hubbard is like Reader that he doesn't make a lot of splash plays, but the defense rolls because of his work out there.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Can't give Taylor/Callahan too much of a break, because Taylor chose to hire (and keep for a second season) Jim Turner.

They also chose bad players in the draft, chose to extend Bobby Hart, chose to extend Trey Hopkins, chose to sign XSF, chose to sign John Jerry, chose to sign John Miller.

When a large part of the problem is your own doing, it's hard to not judge you for the problem that's spanned 3 years (any also stretched back into your time as a college playcaller as well).

I don't mind Taylor as a HC, his guys seem to play for him, but I still believe he should give up play calling duties to a real OC.

[samhain]

(08-26-2022, 03:11 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Well, at this point Carman, Hill and whomever else trying for that starting lg spot hasn’t played any better than a target dummy. I just hope whomever wins that spot is at least competent and can pick up late stunts.

I sometimes wonder if Carman is miscast as an interior lineman.  When he excelled in college he was a tackle.  He's probably been a tackle for most of his football life.  I know that pre-draft talk slated him as a player that had a high likelihood of moving inside, but he most certainly doesn't lack the size to man the position.  

I get that most teams will try young linemen at other positions, but at times it seems to be to the player's detriment.  If Volson wins the job outright, perhaps they take a look at Carman as a backup swing tackle.  They need one badly as Prince and Adeniji are both lackluster players with low ceilings.  Carman played at a high level at a top college program in some really big games.  He protected one of the most highly regarded and valuable quarterback prospects in the last 10 years's blindside, and he did it well.  There's still no way they cut bait on him due to his draft status, nor should they.  

If his problem is that he just doesn't like football, then he'll wash out in a year or 2.  I'd keep him out of the first team line rotation and make him earn a job when injury inevitably presses him into action.  If he's got any desire to make career out of the NFL, he'll take advantage of the opportunity.

[Essex Johnson]

Give credit where it is due.. great time and effort went into his research for these teams. Regardless where i might differ, he really has an overall understanding of NFL teams as an outsider looking in... and putting us #8 is totally realistic .