So who is that starter at LG?

[fredtoast]

(08-29-2022, 08:18 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The more I think about this, I can't help but wonder if the "best five" currently on the roster would look like this:


LT- Jonah Williams
LG- Ted Karras
C- Trey Hill
RG- Alex Cappa
RT- La'el Collins

I know everyone will go nuts moving Karras, but if they don't bring in another LG I kind of think this is the best five of the existing roster.

This is not going to happen.  Didn't Hill start at OG against the Rams?

[spazz70]

Maybe Volson looks much better with 2 starting caliber players to his left and right?

[*ochocincos*]

(08-29-2022, 11:24 AM)jj22 Wrote: I noticed Adeniji played a lot better at tackle. Maybe they should try Carman at tackle before making any decision on if he can work out here or not (not that they'd cut him this season).

Adeniji has good athleticism.
His problem is he has no anchor at all.
Nor does he have power (or at least it doesn't show up when he's trying to drive in the run game).

Carman has power, and he's bigger than Adeniji.
However, he may benefit from slimming down some if he's going to shift back outside, as he'll need to be more agile to handle the speedier, smaller outside guys.

[Frank Booth]

If Volson proves to be a liability at LG, I’m all for putting Hill at C, and kicking Karras to LG

[Soonerpeace]

(08-29-2022, 10:23 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is a conversation that can go on for pages and I don't want to derail the thread, but I will say that if Cincinnati starts running the ball on 3rd and 6, the fanbase will carry ZT out of the stadium themselves. Also, I'm not sure what you are trying to say by "running game opens up the passing game". Normally, people will say that and mean "the passing game will be stronger this year because we will run the ball better". This isn't true, there is nothing to support this. Play-action doesn't improve with a strong running game, nor does the passing game normally. You don't hit bigger plays more often, you don't have a higher QB rating, you don't have a higher YPA. This has been true since 1999, which is as far back as I can go with the database I use. So, if you're saying that a better running game opens up a passing game, I would argue that the answer is factually no. If you're saying that you think it will open up the passing game, I would say that trends in data change all the time, so sure, it could change. I just don't see any reason why it would.

That said, yes, a running game really helps with your options in short yardage situations and allows you play with tendencies. If a team were to pass every play, defenses would get into their pressure packages and you'd have a bad time. That is certainly true. 

I never implied ZT was running on 3 & 6 but I did mention once in awhile versus the right defense he give an option for Joe to audible to a run on 3rd and 4. Again let me be clearer. Don’t know how I can say it any more succinctly. If we have a better run game and teams have to be more cognizant and force the DL not to tee off on Joe it will help. It hasn’t. A better run game could very easily make teams not so readily go into pure passing coverages. Never said a better run game was going to change the entire landscape of our pass blocking.

[fredtoast]

(08-28-2022, 05:53 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: If Volson does start over Carman (I just want the best one no matter who it is) that's a pretty big and bad statement on Carman's career trajectory.

This times 1000.

You guys know that I always hesitate to judge a player by his rookie season.  Especially with a guy like Carman who was coming off a back surgery.

But he was healthy this offseason.  And it is not like Volson has just blown everyone away.  He has not looked that great himself.

It is a very bad sign for Carman to lose his spot to a 4th round pick from an FCS school.

[KillerGoose]

(08-29-2022, 12:21 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I never implied ZT was running on 3 & 6 

Well, yeah, you did. Lol. You said, quote...

"Teams have been looking at our tendencies and with previous times zero chance we ever ran it on third and 3 or more"

The implication here is that with a better run blocking line, there is a non-zero chance that we could do that this year. Your statement is vague, but "3rd and 3, or more" includes 3rd and 6. 

Quote:Again let me be clearer. Don’t know how I can say it any more succinctly. If we have a better run game and teams have to be more cognizant and force the DL not to tee off on Joe it will help. 

Yes, I already said that. And I agree.

Quote:A better run game could very easily make teams not so readily go into pure passing coverages.

I have no idea what you are attempting to say here. There is no such thing as a "run coverage". Coverages are only for pass defense. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-28-2022, 05:56 PM)Mer Wrote: Didn't Carman play Tackle in college? I don't understand why they haven't tried him at Tackle. I get that he hasn't panned out at Guard, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll stink at tackle too. Wasn't Fred Johnson terrible at Guard but at least serviceable at Tackle? Maybe Carman can be a back up swing Tackle. Or maybe we could trade him to a Tackle desperate team and keep the guy from Pittsburgh. ( Can't believe I just wrote that)

Yes, Carman was a LT at Clemson. He was damn good against power, he just would get beat by speed rushers at times
which is why I guess we drafted him and put him at Guard to hide this weakness. Hasn't worked though. I thought Gilliam
looked alright at RG against the Rams even if PFF said he was terrible. I saw him driving defenders back in the run game 
and didn't see him get beat much in pass protection.

(08-28-2022, 06:06 PM)Synric Wrote: Charmin is just so inconsistent with his technique. D'Ante Smith is more consistent but needs to be more aware of the play around him. Alot of Smith's issues are in mental.

Charmin lol

(08-28-2022, 06:13 PM)Synric Wrote: Possibly he looks good when he quick sets (or angle if you wanna call it that).

Might be a good move to move Charmin back to LT I don't know...

(08-28-2022, 06:23 PM)Synric Wrote: Lol during the Bengals board fantasy draft my tablet autocorrected to Charmin... Perfect nickname.

It is, gonna have to call him Charmin from now on until he changes the nickname lol

(08-28-2022, 07:37 PM)Go Cards Wrote: If the player is on the roster presently  then would think it would be Volson at this point but may change later.

Neither really look like they've seized anything just yet.

Ereck Flowers or trade for Isaiah Wynn would really help at this point. 

Cause you are right I don't think either seized the job at LG. I think both would play better with Jonah and Ted next to them
but Flowers or Wynn have played well in the NFL and are proven. We don't know how well Volson or Charmin will play...

[fredtoast]

I think it is hard to quantify the impact of a good running game on the passing game.

But last year QBs that faced a 3rd-and-4 had a 95.4 passer rating while QBs facing a 3rd-and-7 only had an 83.2 rating. The main way a good run game helps the passing game is keeping the team "ahead of the sticks".

[2MinutesHate]

Maybe they're going to bring in Spain for another go and just waiting for final cuts to see who else might be out there.
We should be able to get him for around a million/year or less perhaps. Not sure Volson is going to be able to take the leap this year regardless of the guys around him. I'd rather have some insurance at this point.

Get Joe injured and we're done. Brandon Allen looked pretty sloppy this preseason as well in my opinion.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-29-2022, 12:52 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Maybe they're going to bring in Spain for another go and just waiting for final cuts to see who else might be out there.  
We should be able to get him for around a million/year or less perhaps.  Not sure Volson is going to be able to take the leap this year regardless of the guys around him.  I'd rather have some insurance at this point.  

Get Joe injured and we're done.  Brandon Allen looked pretty sloppy this preseason as well in my opinion.

Makes sense. I like Ereck Flowers and Isaiah Wynn better but Spain knows the system and played well last regular season.

[*Synric*]

(08-29-2022, 11:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This is not going to happen.  Didn't Hill start at OG against the Rams?

No he played Center the entire game because Gailliard was hurt against the Giants and Ben Brown was hurt vs the Cardinals. Hill has taken reps at guard in practice prior to this week and had a few guard reps vs the Giants.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-29-2022, 12:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think it is hard to quantify the impact of a good running game on the passing game.

But last year QBs that faced a 3rd-and-4 had a 95.4 passer rating while QBs facing a 3rd-and-7 only had an 83.2 rating.  The main way a good run game helps the passing game is keeping the team "ahead of the sticks".

Right

And a good running game often separates the good/great teams in the Redzone. And we have struggled there more than we should.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-29-2022, 03:14 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right

And a good running game often separates the good/great teams in the Redzone. And we have struggled there more than we should.

This should change if our starters stay healthy. I think we will be much better run blocking with our new guys.

Plus Jonah is already a good run blocker, both Volson and Carman are better run blockers than pass blockers and Pollack
seems to be much better at coaching up run blocking. We need to rely on the running game this year IMO.

It will also take pressure off of Burrow if we do. All of Cappa, Karras and Collins are fantastic run blockers.

Some of the best in the NFL. They aren't quite as good of pass protectors but they are better than what we had last year.

[Joelist]

It would be interesting to see for a given player a comparison between how coaches graded them for a game versus how PFF graded them. Do this over a series of games - I suspect the coaches and PFF will differ in quite a few areas.

[fredtoast]

(08-29-2022, 03:45 PM)Joelist Wrote: It would be interesting to see for a given player a comparison between how coaches graded them for a game versus how PFF graded them. Do this over a series of games - I suspect the coaches and PFF will differ in quite a few areas.

You can tell that front offices often disagree with PFF based on free agent salaries and the draft (PFF rates college players also).

[Joelist]

(08-29-2022, 03:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can tell that front offices often disagree with PFF based on free agent salaries and the draft (PFF rates college players also).

Yeah but having more exact stats on the divergence would be interest worthy. 

[*ochocincos*]

(08-29-2022, 03:50 PM)Joelist Wrote: Yeah but having more exact stats on the divergence would be interest worthy. 

Do teams do "grades" and "stats" like PFF does, though?

I'd be real curious to see something like that from teams, even if it was a player who is no longer on the team or retired.

[Sled21]

(08-29-2022, 01:01 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Makes sense. I like Ereck Flowers and Isaiah Wynn better but Spain knows the system and played well last regular season.

If we bring anyone in, I suspect it will be Spain. There are numerous other teams in dire need of interior linemen. Tampa needs 2 alone. There is about to be a bidding war on quality guards that are left.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-29-2022, 06:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If we bring anyone in, I suspect it will be Spain. There are numerous other teams in dire need of interior linemen. Tampa needs 2 alone. There is about to be a bidding war on quality guards that are left.

I too think it would be Spain.
He knows the system and performed mostly well there last year.
He won't (or shouldn't) need more than a couple weeks to ramp up.