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(09-07-2022, 09:12 AM)pally Wrote: We have rightly given a lot of credit to Elizabeth Blackburn for the new openness and increased fan engagement surrounding the Bengals. She has said that a Ring of Honor, new uniforms, and an indoor practice facility were her 3 big goals when she joined the front office. She has achieved all 3 of those in less than 3 years.
We, however, have also given her a lot of credit for the massive improvement in their social media interactions and strategy. Turns out we should have been crediting younger sister Caroline, who is the Senior Manager of Digital Strategy, for that improvement. NFL numbers have shown that the Bengals have by far, the largest increase in fan social media engagement in the NFL over the last 2 years. And it is not solely due to the team's improvement. The quality of their output is 1000% better than it was just a couple of years ago. It has humor, quality graphics, and good content all aimed at the social media generation which helps build the future fan base.
These young women have injected a breath of fresh air into team management. Their emergence coupled with the Joe Burrow playing era seems like it could be a perfect alignment of the stars as we watch the team move forward.
We'll have to watch to see if either Elizabeth or Caroline has the chops to be GM one day. But, right now with Katie slated to run the team and her daughters waiting in the wings, the future of team management looks bright
That is cool, didn't know this thanks Pally. You can sure tell the difference, a good job Caroline has been doing to say the least.
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(09-07-2022, 09:36 AM)pally Wrote: What constitutes "football people"? Mike Brown is a football people. He simply lacks the imagination to move the team forward. It has nothing to do with his football knowledge.
The GM of the Vikings, for example, was a commodities trader 10 years ago. These women have spent their entire lives in football. They may not have played but plenty of GMs and team Presidents have never played football.
You can only hope that they're smart enough and self-aware enough to understand if they're capable of running a football team the way a GM should run a football team to be successful. Mike Brown never understood that.
They've obviously proven themselves in everything they've done so far, so the future looks promising. Something i've not said at many points in the last 30 years, give or take a random season or two.
Caroline commented on it in the podcast. It's something she wants, to be involved in the football side of the business. They've certainly shown the ability to understand what is successful in what they're currently doing.
Hiring someone from the outside isn't a bad thing, as long as their vision matches where you want to go.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
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(09-07-2022, 09:28 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I'm all for family at executive spots... But I have had enough of Mike Brown being GM to last me a lifetime. Of course our titles and job descriptions are tad different than other teams. My hope is that we always have football people doing football stuff moving forward.
“But I have had enough of Mike Brown being GM to last me a lifetime “ I’ll second that.
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(09-07-2022, 01:00 PM)pally Wrote: These women have literally spent their ENTIRE LIVES immersed in football. Elizabeth saw her first game at 1 week old. They have been to every training camp. They go to practices. They sit in meetings involving player evaluations and contracts. Dismissing, their football knowledge acan capabilities based on their current jobs is ridiculous and short-sighted. Do you seriously think these will be the only jobs they will ever hold in the Bengals Front Office? Of course they won't.
Pally these statements are simply not true:
"These women have literally spent their ENTIRE LIVES immersed in football."
"They have been to every training camp."
Elizabeth has worked for the Bengals less than 2 years.
This was Caroline's 1st season with the team...
Prior to joining the team one lived in NY and the other San Diego - neither has lived in CIncy since 2011-12 - their senior years in high school.
I absolutely do not believe being the child of an owner and "being around" the team doesnt give an individual any keen insight as to player evaluations, analytics, coaching strategies, etc.
Mike Brown grew up in the organization and actually had jobs on the football side, not just the biz side, for decades and he still was the worst owner in NFL for a long long time.
99% of the time I love your posts but this is absolutely insane to me. Being a fan since the mid-70's I would love for the post-Katie family members to stick to the exec side and hire "football people" for "football operations" obviously you didnt suffer as long as some of us, or you just forgot? We dont need to be the poverty franchise anymore...in the far future I hope we hire the most qualified personnel for the job on the football side.
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(09-07-2022, 01:47 PM)J24 Wrote: I would rather see the Blackburns hire a GM then be a GM like thier Grandfather.
WTS Duke is doing a good j9b right now why are we talking about replacing him?
I stated I want to keep Duke but he is not the GM - he only handles player personnel, a true GM handles much more.
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(09-07-2022, 03:18 PM)Wyche Wrote: I get what you're saying, but these aren't your average ladies from a football family. These folks are immersed in football. I can agree I'd want a bona fide GM (kinda like Duke Tobin), but I also believe they know plenty about the game. I don't think Katie, nor her daughters are as stubborn as the old man. Plus, Katie has been handling contracts for a while now.
I agree that they are doing a great job in their current positions and seem to very capable. I also believe their roles will expand in the future.. but I hope it remains on the executive side as there is TWO distinct operations for an NFL team - business and football operations. All I am saying is when Katie hangs it up I hope they hire competent and qualified football people for that side.
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(09-08-2022, 01:25 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Pally these statements are simply not true:
"These women have literally spent their ENTIRE LIVES immersed in football."
"They have been to every training camp."
Elizabeth has worked for the Bengals less than 2 years.
This was Caroline's 1st season with the team...
Prior to joining the team one lived in NY and the other San Diego - neither has lived in CIncy since 2011-12 - their senior years in high school.
I absolutely do not believe being the child of an owner and "being around" the team doesnt give an individual any keen insight as to player evaluations, analytics, coaching strategies, etc.
Mike Brown grew up in the organization and actually had jobs on the football side, not just the biz side, for decades and he still was the worst owner in NFL for a long long time.
99% of the time I love your posts but this is absolutely insane to me. Being a fan since the mid-70's I would love for the post-Katie family members to stick to the exec side and hire "football people" for "football operations" obviously you didnt suffer as long as some of us, or you just forgot? We dont need to be the poverty franchise anymore...in the far future I hope we hire the most qualified personnel for the job on the football side.
Seriously, just because both worked for outside organizations does not mean they were distanced from the family business. For goodness sake, one of Elizabeth’s outside jobs was with the NFL league office. They have both said that they have attended every training camp and even when not working for the Bengals attended almost every game.
It is downright disrespectful to dismiss these young women’s capabilities just because they don’t fit into your nebulous definition of a “football person”
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Kudos to both of them and the entire FO for changing directions for the betterment of the Bengals
They're doing a fantastic job
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yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam.
Roam the Jungle !
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Great job by both young ladies, the last couple of seasons both on the field and in the front office have been first class in every aspect!
Keep up the great work and as fans we should be excited for the future of the organization!
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(09-08-2022, 04:49 AM)pally Wrote: Seriously, just because both worked for outside organizations does not mean they were distanced from the family business. For goodness sake, one of Elizabeth’s outside jobs was with the NFL league office. They have both said that they have attended every training camp and even when not working for the Bengals attended almost every game.
It is downright disrespectful to dismiss these young women’s capabilities just because they don’t fit into your nebulous definition of a “football person”
Paul Brown has been immersed his whole life too. Doesn't make him qualified. If, when they are of an age you can look at one of the two and say she is the best person available to be GM, then great. But that would make four generations where the best available person also happens to be a family member.
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(09-07-2022, 12:20 PM)pally Wrote: You still haven't defined "football people" What makes someone a football person vs someone who isn't?
Easy - someone that has studied and worked under a legitimate GM or Scout and has worked their way up the ladder to legitimately handle the position of GM.
Mike Brown was never a "football person"
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(09-08-2022, 06:00 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Easy - someone that has studied and worked under a legitimate GM or Scout and has worked their way up the ladder to legitimately handle the position of GM.
Mike Brown was never a "football person"
Mike Brown is bad at player evaluation, He is guilty of sticking to football ideas of the past but give the man some credit. He's forgotten more about football than most of us know.
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(09-08-2022, 06:11 PM)pally Wrote: Mike Brown is bad at player evaluation, He is guilty of sticking to football ideas of the past but give the man some credit. He's forgotten more about football than most of us know.
Mike Brown?
Sorry, but I don't buy that one bit. The fact that this team has done so much better the more he has given up control of operations speaks volumes.
There really isn't anything regarding football operations that I would consider Mike Brown to be good at.
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(09-08-2022, 06:13 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Mike Brown?
Sorry, but I don't buy that one bit. The fact that this team has done so much better the more he has given up control of operations speaks volumes.
There really isn't anything regarding football operations that I would consider Mike Brown to be good at.
Mike Brown has been with the team since its inception, working closely with his father. In 1968, NFL teams didn't have huge front offices. He has been involved in every aspect of running the team, working alongside talented people. Mike Brown is the absolute epitome of a "football person" However, what he wasn't was a good overall NFL general manager. That is why using such a vague term as "football person" conveys nothing.
oh and having positive social media adds value to the team....
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Paul Dehner interviewed Caroline and Elizabeth yesterday.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/elizabeth-and-caroline-blackburn-on-the/id1477129521?i=1000578733465
I thought it was interesting that rather than watching last seasons games from the executive suite, they bought season tickets and sat with the common people so that they could evaluate the game experience. They said that no one ever recognized them.
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I don't know if they'd ever admit it, but if they brought in Kay Adams- and all her positive energy around the team, which was nothing if not contagious and helped turn the corner on an awful era- I love what they've done. And I'm pretty sure they did for reasons that I'll keep to myself. ;P
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(09-08-2022, 07:33 PM)OBX Bengal Wrote: Paul Dehner interviewed Caroline and Elizabeth yesterday.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/elizabeth-and-caroline-blackburn-on-the/id1477129521?i=1000578733465
I thought it was interesting that rather than watching last seasons games from the executive suite, they bought season tickets and sat with the common people so that they could evaluate the game experience. They said that no one ever recognized them.
I was coming here to say this. Elizabeth and Caroline putting themselves among the fans is a smart move. They're finding ways of improving the stadium since we're not building a new one.
You can always trust an dishonest man to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to look out for.
"Winning makes believers of us all"-Paul Brown
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(09-07-2022, 12:49 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Football people as in people with experience doing football stuff, not social media or marketing.
Not sure why this is so hard to understand? Im not against any member of the Brown family being executives at the highest levels. But there are 2 distinct functions with a NFL team, the football side operations side and the business operations side.
It is simply MY OPINION that we dont need family members deciding on draft picks or other player evaluations, or the other daily football processes.
Owners handle marketing, accounting, corporate engagements, etc.
After Katie, I'm fine with both daughters in executive spots and would hope they would hire a solid GM with a lot of experience, a great captoligist, a savvy experienced contract attorney, and keep Duke head of player personnel.
Football people like Dave Gettleman? Or the many others like Gettleman?
What kind of training and education does someone like Gettleman complete to qualify?
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(09-08-2022, 06:56 PM)pally Wrote: Mike Brown has been with the team since its inception, working closely with his father. In 1968, NFL teams didn't have huge front offices. He has been involved in every aspect of running the team, working alongside talented people. Mike Brown is the absolute epitome of a "football person" However, what he wasn't was a good overall NFL general manager. That is why using such a vague term as "football person" conveys nothing.
oh and having positive social media adds value to the team....
Football is football, business is business.
You can make the very weak argument that Mike Brown is a good businessman, but I don't even think you can successfully do that.
It's amazing how the last 2 years have wiped away the previous 30 when it comes to how poorly this team was run from the top. Thank God he's given others some control over some of the operations
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