PFF Week 1, top 5 and bottom 5

[Essex Johnson]

(09-13-2022, 09:18 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Need a coach that can call a Offensive Game plan...  or make one for that matter...  Sling the ball all day isnt much of a plan

when you fall behind , get sacked, can't run the ball and play an extra quarter you are going to be throwing a lot... plus Mixon ran the ball 27 times, not like we just did not run, we did not run effective

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-13-2022, 12:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: when you fall behind , get sacked, can't run the ball and play an extra quarter you are going to be throwing a lot... plus Mixon ran the ball 27 times, not like we just did not run, we did not run effective

This....and several of the empty set formations were on audibles. Joe likes it. A bunch. He's usually good at it too. Like really good. He was just off yesterday. 

[740Bengal]

Stop running Mixon on toss sweeps and stretch plays, that is NOT who he is, yet we continue to force it.

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-13-2022, 10:48 AM)Nepa Wrote: It was one drop, not drops.
The Bengals had two drops, one by Chase and one by Thomas.

Well, could have called the one where he didn't get his feet in an incomplete target that was on target...

[Whatever]

(09-13-2022, 12:44 PM)740Bengal Wrote: Stop running Mixon on toss sweeps and stretch plays, that is NOT who he is, yet we continue to force it.

You have to run them some to keep the run defense honest.

[740Bengal]

(09-13-2022, 12:48 PM)Whatever Wrote: You have to run them some to keep the run defense honest.

Ok run someone who can actually get the edge, Mixon is a north south back. 

[KillerGoose]

(09-13-2022, 12:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: when you fall behind , get sacked, can't run the ball and play an extra quarter you are going to be throwing a lot... plus Mixon ran the ball 27 times, not like we just did not run, we did not run effective

I haven’t seen a lot of people point this out yet. Maybe I am missing it, but yes, you are correct.

The run game was atrocious Sunday. Mixon averaged 3.04 yards per carry. That would have been good for his 3rd worst game last season. At some point, when your run game is that bad, you have to do what works best. Running the ball ineffectively only puts you in tough situations, so they put Burrow toss it.

[tms]

(09-13-2022, 09:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Top 5 on offense:

Ja'Marr Chase 74.5 (drops probably hurt him and the dumb penalty...which, BTW, why wasn't it offsetting with taunting?  F'n refs.
Tee Higgins 69.5
Alex Cappa 69.3
Ted Karras 68.0
Joe Mixon 63.6

Bottom 5 on offense:

Mike Thomas 49.4
Trent Taylor 52.5
Drew Sample 53.4 (ironically, a 74.3 on pass blocking snaps, but that was only 4 snaps. Gee, predictable much?)
Joe Burrow 53.7
Cordelle Volson 54.2 (splits were 44.3 on an astounding 71 pass blocking snaps, and 64.7 on 29 run blocking snaps...wow.  Again, maybe run the ball more and get your line some continuity?)

Top 5 on defense:

Trae Flowers 90.0 (It was only 5 snaps, all coverage, but still...)
DJ Reader 88.4 Still far and away the most underrated player on the team
Logan Wilson 86.7 Second most underrated?
Trey Hendrickson 82.7
Germaine Pratt 73.0 Third most underrated?

Bottom 5 on defense:

Zachary Carter 38.4  Only 11 snaps, but ugh.
ADG 49.8 Doesn't make a lot of sense, as every score on the 5 measures was >50?  Tackling was a 70
Joseph Ossai 51.6  Still remains the player that should have been Spencer Brown (now RT for Buffalo) until he does anything.  Had 10 pass rush snaps and did crap against a turd line.  
Sam Hubbard 57.1  Find this hard to believe, and only a 27.8 in tackling?
Cam Sample 57.4  Only 9 snaps

Other notables:

Dax Hill 61.4 in his 6 snaps.
Jesse Bates 69.9 Hardly a $13 million performance.  Watch what Fitzpatrick did...that's big money safety play.
Eli Apple 70.6 Highest rated secondary player other than Mike Hilton
Tyler Boyd 58.0 May have been dinged up, but sure got no separation and didn't impact the game at all
Hayden Hurst 63.4 Get this:  Played 75 snaps, stayed in to pass block 1 snap.  ONE! Anyone else think we are so damn predictable how they use Sample and Hurst?
Jonah Williams 62.5 Sadly, the 7th highest score on offense.  Hardly a good performance.

Interesting. Thanks for posting. 

I don't get too caught up in individual PFF game scores. Sample size is just so small, the numbers could reflect their role or the opponent as much as their own performance. Those variables tend to be controlled over time. In the interim you'll see pretty wild fluctuations.

FWIW, a dude like Bates will rarely score well against a team like the Steelers. They don't go downfield much and his number of upside plays is very few. He has more of a preventative than playmaking role there. I think the entire secondary played well on account of the 5.1 yards per attempt so I wouldn't microanalyze their PFF numbers- maybe that's just me. But 70 is decent anyway! To treat it like a referendum on his season-long salary... come on now haha... waay too early for that. 

I do see that 4 of the bottom 5 on offense are either backups (Thomas, Taylor, Sample) or would be backups (Volson). That's probably just a coincidence but still interesting.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-13-2022, 09:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Top 5 on offense:

Ja'Marr Chase 74.5 (drops probably hurt him and the dumb penalty...which, BTW, why wasn't it offsetting with taunting?  F'n refs.
Tee Higgins 69.5
Alex Cappa 69.3
Ted Karras 68.0
Joe Mixon 63.6

Bottom 5 on offense:

Mike Thomas 49.4
Trent Taylor 52.5
Drew Sample 53.4 (ironically, a 74.3 on pass blocking snaps, but that was only 4 snaps. Gee, predictable much?)
Joe Burrow 53.7
Cordelle Volson 54.2 (splits were 44.3 on an astounding 71 pass blocking snaps, and 64.7 on 29 run blocking snaps...wow.  Again, maybe run the ball more and get your line some continuity?)

Top 5 on defense:

Trae Flowers 90.0 (It was only 5 snaps, all coverage, but still...)
DJ Reader 88.4 Still far and away the most underrated player on the team
Logan Wilson 86.7 Second most underrated?
Trey Hendrickson 82.7
Germaine Pratt 73.0 Third most underrated?

Bottom 5 on defense:

Zachary Carter 38.4  Only 11 snaps, but ugh.
ADG 49.8 Doesn't make a lot of sense, as every score on the 5 measures was >50?  Tackling was a 70
Joseph Ossai 51.6  Still remains the player that should have been Spencer Brown (now RT for Buffalo) until he does anything.  Had 10 pass rush snaps and did crap against a turd line.  
Sam Hubbard 57.1  Find this hard to believe, and only a 27.8 in tackling?
Cam Sample 57.4  Only 9 snaps

Other notables:

Dax Hill 61.4 in his 6 snaps.
Jesse Bates 69.9 Hardly a $13 million performance.  Watch what Fitzpatrick did...that's big money safety play.
Eli Apple 70.6 Highest rated secondary player other than Mike Hilton
Tyler Boyd 58.0 May have been dinged up, but sure got no separation and didn't impact the game at all
Hayden Hurst 63.4 Get this:  Played 75 snaps, stayed in to pass block 1 snap.  ONE! Anyone else think we are so damn predictable how they use Sample and Hurst?
Jonah Williams 62.5 Sadly, the 7th highest score on offense.  Hardly a good performance.

Good points on the way Volson is so much better of a run blocker and making us predictable with Hurst.

I like both these guys though. Volson will get much better, we just need to run the ball more early instead of passing so 
much while we need to gain continuity. Run blocking is the best way to do this with a revamped OL. Really like what I saw
from Hurst in the passing game, think he could really help, dude is buff and had great effort after the catch.

Karras and Cappa are studs. La'el is a good run blocker but just couldn't handle TJ Watt in pass protection big surprise.

I predicted this, which is why the gameplan should of been to just run it all over them. Keep it simple stupid.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-13-2022, 12:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: when you fall behind , get sacked, can't run the ball and play an extra quarter you are going to be throwing a lot... plus Mixon ran the ball 27 times, not like we just did not run, we did not run effective

(09-13-2022, 12:37 PM)Wyche Wrote: This....and several of the empty set formations were on audibles. Joe likes it. A bunch. He's usually good at it too. Like really good. He was just off yesterday. 

Still, even then running the ball right at TJ Watt early is a good gameplan instead of letting both him and Heyward tee in 
on Burrow on the pass rush early. I understand we didn't run it well overall but early Mixon was averaging like 5 yards a pop.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-13-2022, 12:49 PM)740Bengal Wrote: Ok run someone who can actually get the edge, Mixon is a north south back. 

and was hit multiple times or our Oline was pushed back into him.. run game was just bad

[J24]

(09-13-2022, 12:50 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I haven’t seen a lot of people point this out yet. Maybe I am missing it, but yes, you are correct.

The run game was atrocious Sunday. Mixon averaged 3.04 yards per carry. That would have been good for his 3rd worst game last season. At some point, when your run game is that bad, you have to do what works best. Running the ball ineffectively only puts you in tough situations, so they put Burrow toss it.

They should mix some play action passes when they line up under center. 16 out of 18 possessions under center plays were runs.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-13-2022, 03:40 PM)J24 Wrote: They should mix some play action passes when they line up under center. 16 out of 18 possessions under center plays were runs.

I've seen a few posts in different threads where guys are talking about this. We've got to get more creative! We can't run the ball every time Sample comes in. We can't throw the ball every play that Hurst is in. so on so on

Hope Ossai starts picking it up.

[higgy100]

(09-13-2022, 03:40 PM)J24 Wrote: They should mix some play action passes when they line up under center. 16 out of 18 possessions under center plays were runs.

Play action only works when you're running the ball well. Outside of Mixon's 31 yard run he averaged less than 2 ypc. Bengals going to have to prove to the world they can get good, positive running yards on 1st/2nd down (I believe defenders hit the Bengals RB's on over 52% of their running plays last season before the LOS).

I believe that play-action will become a key staple of their offense in the next few weeks.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-13-2022, 03:48 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I've seen a few posts in different threads where guys are talking about this. We've got to get more creative! We can't run the ball every time Sample comes in. We can't throw the ball every play that Hurst is in. so on so on

Hope Ossai starts picking it up.

I kept asking myself if Ossai was even playing. No bueno.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-13-2022, 01:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Still, even then running the ball right at TJ Watt early is a good gameplan instead of letting both him and Heyward tee in 
on Burrow on the pass rush early. I understand we didn't run it well overall but early Mixon was averaging like 5 yards a pop.

Yeah, I agree, but then came all of the turnovers..... can't leave that part out. I tend to believe the plan changed at that point.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-13-2022, 01:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Still, even then running the ball right at TJ Watt early is a good gameplan instead of letting both him and Heyward tee in 
on Burrow on the pass rush early. I understand we didn't run it well overall but early Mixon was averaging like 5 yards a pop.

Mixon touched the ball around 20 times in 1st half which was around half of offensive plays ...

[BoomerFan]

(09-13-2022, 10:05 AM)Wyche Wrote: The run game wasn't much, save for the one big play. Four of our pass blocking snaps were INTs. When you get behind, the game plan changes. They gotta get better at run blocking. Should've gashed the Stoolers, but they didn't. Just hoping it was first game rust. It's a mixed bag on not playing starters in the preseason. Us and the Rams looked bad. MN and a couple others didn't play starters and won.

We were never that far behind. The Steelers are known to be weak against the run. 

[Essex Johnson]

(09-13-2022, 04:49 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: We were never that far behind. The Steelers are known to be weak against the run. 

Well they played better sunday

[*Synric*]

(09-13-2022, 04:49 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: We were never that far behind. The Steelers are known to be weak against the run. 

That was 2021 Welcome to 2022. Last year the Steeles expected Stephon Tuitt back be he never got their and they they lost their NT Tyson Alualu 2 games into the season forcing Heyward into that position.

This year they signed Ogunjobi to replace Tuitt and Alualu is healthy. They also drafted DeMarvin Leal and just picked a role guy Malik Reed from Denver.