Joe Burrow VS Justin Herbert

[Essex Johnson]

(09-17-2022, 05:13 PM)C0de_M0nkey Wrote: Burrow made the Super Bowl, Herbert didn’t. There was a time when Manning vs Brady was a debate. Manning had stats, Brady won the important games. There’s a similar parallel in the Herbert vs Burrow debate.

Too early to tell, Brady is the goat no doubt and Manning was unfortunate  to be in same time period and same conference as Brady..but neirher Burrow or Herbert have accomplished enough yet to compare. As others stated both would be QBs that rest of league would love to have for the next decade

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-17-2022, 06:28 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: They are both very good and have the potential to be great over the course of their careers.

/thread  

They’re great now. Both are already firmly top 5-7 QB’s in the league, both have already won awards, and one of them has already had postseason success.

People were calling Mahomes great immediately (rightfully so), and I see no problem saying the same about Burrow and Herbert. They really hit the ground running as soon as they came into the league. Which is obviously not always the case even among highly drafted guys like Allen, Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Lance, etc.

[Housh]

I saw this on Facebook

Someone said Herbert gets more attention for losing to Mahommes than Mahommes got for actually winning


Its crazy. I like the kid too but damn.

[sandwedge]

How about we just wait till the end of their careers to debate this? I would take Burrow, just because he is from Ohio, but Herbert is a stud also.

[George Cantstandya]

(09-17-2022, 07:50 PM)Housh Wrote: I saw this on Facebook

Someone said Herbert gets more attention for losing to Mahommes than Mahommes got for actually winning


Its crazy. I like the kid too but damn.

Context is sort of important.  I think a lot of the attention had to do with Herbert being injured and playing through it.   But of course Facebook, is as we know, the center of all unbiased information.  :)

[jj22]

This place would have burned down if we traded out (and no doubt would still have extra 1st round pick leading into 2023 draft) and drafted Herbert. Media would have mocked us and the city would have fell out.

It would have been a great move now that we see Herbert is legit. Burrow hasn't busted, and has taken us to the SB. A win would have ended the debate, but the trip will boost Burrow in the comparisons for awhile (we got to hope Herbert doesn't make the playoffs and make a run). I like Herbert (now).

Burrow was the right choice at the time, and has done for the city what was needed with the pick.

Herbert, Justin Jefferson, and Tee Higgins plus all the picks does look enticing now....

[Essex Johnson]

(09-17-2022, 07:50 PM)Housh Wrote: I saw this on Facebook

Someone said Herbert gets more attention for losing to Mahommes than Mahommes got for actually winning


Its crazy. I like the kid too but damn.

Well not sure if you watched game but  with the pick 6 then playing through severe pain to bring the team back plus the fire storm that started on Chargers keeping him in there no surprise he got more attention. 

[Essex Johnson]

(09-17-2022, 11:38 PM)jj22 Wrote: This place would have burned down if we traded out (and no doubt would still have extra 1st round pick leading into 2023 draft) and drafted Herbert. Media would have mocked us and the city would  have fell out.

It would have been a great move now that we see Herbert is legit. Burrow hasn't busted, and has taken us to the SB. A win would have ended the debate, but the trip will boost Burrow in the comparisons for awhile (we got to hope Herbert doesn't make the playoffs and make a run). I like Herbert (now).

Burrow was the right choice at the time, and has done for the city what was needed with the pick.

Herbert, Justin Jefferson, and Tee Higgins plus all the picks does look enticing now....

I was one of those  that said we should look at possible  trading back since I felt Herbert would be there and thought he might be a safer pick than Joe since he just had more success in his 4 years and LSU was so loaded was not totally sold if Burrow was as good as indicated his Senior Year vs Herbert plus extra picks.

Now three years in to the draft and you can;t say the Bengals were wrong on drafting Joe with success we had last year though only time will tell which QB ends of being considered the best out of that draft class, that will probably be debated for a while

[kalibengal]

(09-18-2022, 10:54 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I was one of those  that said we should look at possible  trading back since I felt Herbert would be there and thought he might be a safer pick than Joe since he just had more success in his 4 years and LSU was so loaded was not totally sold if Burrow was as good as indicated his Senior Year vs Herbert plus extra picks.

Now three years in to the draft and you can;t say the Bengals were wrong on drafting Joe with success we had last year though only time will tell which QB ends of being considered the best out of that draft class, that will probably be debated for a while

Joe needs a bounce back game today to get us in that positive vibe again
Last week just left  bad taste on my mouth. Starts off with sack, then pick six then 3 more picks + 5 more sacks
lets go!
Herbert continues to impress overall....Ive never seen arm talent quite like his  

[Essex Johnson]

(09-18-2022, 11:10 AM)kalibengal Wrote: Joe needs a bounce back game today to get us in that positive vibe again
Last week just left  bad taste on my mouth. Starts off with sack, then pick six then 3 more picks + 5 more sacks
lets go!
Herbert continues to impress overall....Ive never seen arm talent quite like his  

last week was a lemon performance for he has shown he can bounce back, we for sure don;t want to start making this type of lemonade though at QB...

[TheFan]

(09-17-2022, 03:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Herbert is a very good QB. I just don't like to put him higher than Burrow because his WRs come up with some ridiculous catches, too consistently. 

He's big, has a strong arm and he does have a knack for putting the ball where his receivers can go make a play. I think he's still a 2nd tier QB when it comes to reading defenses and making decisions. That could improve with experience. 

I'd still take Burrow over him for the long haul, without a doubt.

Yea, that scrub Chase can just never seem to come up with any crazy catches. If Herbert is 2nd tier then Burrow would have to be that or lower if you're basing it on any actual metric and not just team bias. 

[*Synric*]

(09-17-2022, 03:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Herbert is a very good QB. I just don't like to put him higher than Burrow because his WRs come up with some ridiculous catches, too consistently. 

He's big, has a strong arm and he does have a knack for putting the ball where his receivers can go make a play. I think he's still a 2nd tier QB when it comes to reading defenses and making decisions. That could improve with experience. 

I'd still take Burrow over him for the long haul, without a doubt.

To me it's the second level that separates the two QBs. Herbert is still a little more inconsistent at those second level throws were Joe Burrow lives there with his post snap vision, anticipation, and accuracy/ball placement. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-18-2022, 01:15 PM)Synric Wrote: To me it's the second level that separates the two QBs. Herbert is still a little more inconsistent at those second level throws were Joe Burrow lives there with his post snap vision, anticipation, and accuracy/ball placement. 

I think the thing most don't recognize is that it's not that hard to tell a QB, here's read #1, here's read #2 and here's read #3, then here's your checkdown (not that simplistic cause they're not usually that stupid--but to make it easier for a fan to understand). Sometimes, read #3 is the checkdown. 

You can teach just about any QB to do that and then the announcer goes, "wow, look at him go through his reads!". That's not rocket surgery. 

A guy like Burrow can look at a D and know which option is the best from the go and he will do things like pump fake or keep his head/eyes one way to draw a defender before coming back to who he was looking for all along. A guy like Herbert has a lot of snaps, so i don't doubt he can recognize a defense and adjust or change the play and i don't think he's terribly behind Burrow in that respect, but there is a noticible difference. 

I also agree that Herbert is more inconsistent and if you're good at disguising your defense and you can get a little heat on him, i think you can prod him into mistakes that a guy like Burrow is less likely to do. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-18-2022, 12:59 PM)TheFan Wrote: Yea, that scrub Chase can just never seem to come up with any crazy catches. If Herbert is 2nd tier then Burrow would have to be that or lower if you're basing it on any actual metric and not just team bias. 

Tell me you don't know how to read or football without telling me you don't know how to read or football. 


I said 2nd tier at a specific part of a QBs game, not overall. 

[TheFan]

(09-18-2022, 02:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Tell me you don't know how to read or football without telling me you don't know how to read or football. 


I said 2nd tier at a specific part of a QBs game, not overall. 

Yes, I realize that. You're the one who failed with comprehension. What stats are you using to prove that Herbert is below Burrow?

"A guy like Burrow can look at a D and know which option is the best from the go and he will do things like pump fake or keep his head/eyes one way to draw a defender before coming back to who he was looking for all along. A guy like Herbert has a lot of snaps, so i don't doubt he can recognize a defense and adjust or change the play and i don't think he's terribly behind Burrow in that respect, but there is a noticible difference"

That's a completely biased opinion that proves nothing.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-18-2022, 01:59 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I also agree that Herbert is more inconsistent and if you're good at disguising your defense and you can get a little heat on him, i think you can prod him into mistakes that a guy like Burrow is less likely to do. 

I wonder how much of that is age. Herbert is in his age 24 season and Burrow in his age 26 season. Both are great QBs, but you'd naturally expect Burrow to be a little ahead developmentally since he came into the NFL at a higher age, no? 

[Nepa]

(09-17-2022, 11:16 AM)pally Wrote: Joe can pull put the game in the 4th QTR.  Herbert has not yet proven he can do that.  Herbert had the entire 2nd half of their rookie year to himself which led to his OROY.  Media types forget that while the team wasn't winning yet Joe was having a really good year. But those lost games scue the career statistics in Herbert's favor.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

The do-or-die game against the Raiders last year, on the last game of the regular season, Herbert was brilliant on the last two drives, to bring the team back to tie the game at the last second. I think he had 5 fourth down completions (and another by pass interference) to keep the drives alive and two were very long completions. 

I'm in the Burrow camp all the way, but that game showed me that Herbert has the right stuff to lead his team.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-18-2022, 02:15 PM)TheFan Wrote: Yes, I realize that. You're the one who failed with comprehension. What stats are you using to prove that Herbert is below Burrow?

"A guy like Burrow can look at a D and know which option is the best from the go and he will do things like pump fake or keep his head/eyes one way to draw a defender before coming back to who he was looking for all along. A guy like Herbert has a lot of snaps, so i don't doubt he can recognize a defense and adjust or change the play and i don't think he's terribly behind Burrow in that respect, but there is a noticible difference"

That's a completely biased opinion that proves nothing.  

I'm going to assume that you already know that not everything can be confirmed with raw stats. 

You do know that right? There are things you see in film study that allow you to understand that one QB is better at "this thing" than another QB is.

Just so we're on the same page here, if say a guy like Kurt Warner who played in the NFL, won a championship and is in the HoF says a QB is good at "this thing" but you can't really show it with numbers on a piece of paper, is that his biased opinion? 

[*Synric*]

(09-18-2022, 02:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I wonder how much of that is age. Herbert is in his age 24 season and Burrow in his age 26 season. Both are great QBs, but you'd naturally expect Burrow to be a little ahead developmentally since he came into the NFL at a higher age, no? 

Justin Herbert actually has ALOT more game reps going back through college. So while Burrow is older he didnt play as much as Herbert.

[KillerGoose]

(09-18-2022, 02:37 PM)Synric Wrote: Justin Herbert actually has ALOT more game reps going back through college. So while Burrow is older he didnt play as much as Herbert.

Yeah, Herbert was a rare four year starter and also didn’t get injured his rookie season. He just has more experience. Burrow has already shown fantastic abilities in pre-snap recognitions and obviously his playmaking skills. Those should only improve as he gets more reps.