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You can beat cover 2 by using bunch and snug sets.
Wheel routes to the RB aka Chris Evans are perfect
To execute vs Cover 2.
However have yet to see Zac deploy these concepts
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Cover 2 is a generic name for 2 high safeties. There are over a dozen different cover 2 plays and that doesnt include overhang defenses that are half way between cover 2 and cover 1.
Honestly the best way to beat most cover 2 is running the ball.
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(09-20-2022, 11:11 AM)impactplaya Wrote: You can beat cover 2 by using bunch and snug sets.
Wheel routes to the RB aka Chris Evans are perfect
To execute vs Cover 2.
However have yet to see Zac deploy these concepts
It's a shame we're using Perine in the passing game instead. Evans just seems so much quicker, but with 1 snap over 2 games, we might just as well forget about him. ZT sees something in Perine the rest of us haven't figured out yet I guess.
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(09-20-2022, 11:27 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: It's a shame we're using Perine in the passing game instead. Evans just seems so much quicker, but with 1 snap over 2 games, we might just as well forget about him. ZT sees something in Perine the rest of us haven't figured out yet I guess.
He and either Hurst or Sample were wide open underneath on a play where we took a sack. I'm not on Twitter, but Nico linked a video to it in another thread. We've gotta learn to check it down some. There was ample time to hit the underneath route, and both players had at least five yards of grass in front of them after the catch. Running, and hitting those are how you beat that coverage.
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Burrow knows this, he’s not a stupid QB. There’s a reason no one played it against us last year but the dumbass Chiefs.
The line is just worse this year and is giving him less time
-Housh
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(09-20-2022, 11:15 AM)Synric Wrote: Cover 2 is a generic name for 2 high safeties. There are over a dozen different cover 2 plays and that doesnt include overhang defenses that are half way between cover 2 and cover 1.
Honestly the best way to beat most cover 2 is running the ball.
Yes, and then going play action off of that.
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(09-20-2022, 11:35 AM)Housh Wrote: Burrow knows this, he’s not a stupid QB. There’s a reason no one played it against us last year but the dumbass Chiefs.
The line is just worse this year and is giving him less time
Which is maddening.
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(09-20-2022, 11:57 AM)Wyche Wrote: Which is maddening.
And which is wrong. This is debunked in another thread - Burrow is getting more than 3 seconds per pass play.
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(09-20-2022, 11:27 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: It's a shame we're using Perine in the passing game instead. Evans just seems so much quicker, but with 1 snap over 2 games, we might just as well forget about him. ZT sees something in Perine the rest of us haven't figured out yet I guess.
That's another thing too. Outside of Chase,Higgins
And Evans we don't have anyone that catch the ball underneath And simply blaze past a LB
Drew Sample should not be running underneath
He is not a YAC TE. This offense should have
Added a pure speed merchant in the off season
To make teams pay for Cover 2.
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We have the right players to beat Tampa 2; they just are not using the right plays and also are telegraphing the plays by the packages and formations. Just adding slants into the mix more and things like WR bubbles and WR screens also serve to defuse Cover 2.
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Attacking a Tampa 2 should be relatively easy for the Bengals.
Hurst and Boyd should be feasting.
Send Chase and/or Higgins occasionally on quick inside routes.
Utilize the RB to get right behind the DL occasionally.
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They'll e eventually figure it out but I would also point out that Dallas and Pittsburgh are really good to great Defenses. With two game wreckers in Parsons and Watt. The oppossing scheme isn't the issue. Its the players they're going against.
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(09-20-2022, 11:31 AM)Wyche Wrote: He and either Hurst or Sample were wide open underneath on a play where we took a sack. I'm not on Twitter, but Nico linked a video to it in another thread. We've gotta learn to check it down some. There was ample time to hit the underneath route, and both players had at least five yards of grass in front of them after the catch. Running, and hitting those are how you beat that coverage.
That's correct but it does take a mindset incorporated into the offense of patience. More horizontal vs. vertical. I've uttered this a hundred times but those 5-6 yard gains set up the big plays and also they have a chance on a missed tackle to go for 20 yards. It's got to be about picking and choosing your opportunities and if your OL is struggling early on then you have to incorporate this thinking into the game plan.
Would love love love to see quick hitters on 1-2 step drops to their wide-outs and let them be the RB. DB's playing several yards off the ball and that play goes for 5-6 yards without a blink and plenty more if they allude a tackle. Big Ben and the Steelers made a habit of that and that opened up more downfield plays.
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(09-20-2022, 12:09 PM)Joelist Wrote: And which is wrong. This is debunked in another thread - Burrow is getting more than 3 seconds per pass play.
....but there are a lot of communication issues up front too. Yes, I saw Burrow with a lot of time on plays in both games too. He didn't check down much, he threw a pick six with a clean pocket, he's struggling along with everyone involved with the offense right now (save for our WRs). We should've gashed the Stoolers running the ball, instead it was around 3YPC? It wasn't much better sledding in week 2 on the ground. When they get beat, they get beat badly. You combine that with sketchy playcalls, and whatever is going on with QB9, they all look bad.
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(09-20-2022, 12:36 PM)higgy100 Wrote: That's correct but it does take a mindset incorporated into the offense of patience. More horizontal vs. vertical. I've uttered this a hundred times but those 5-6 yard gains set up the big plays and also they have a chance on a missed tackle to go for 20 yards. It's got to be about picking and choosing your opportunities and if your OL is struggling early on then you have to incorporate this thinking into the game plan.
Would love love love to see quick hitters on 1-2 step drops to their wide-outs and let them be the RB. DB's playing several yards off the ball and that play goes for 5-6 yards without a blink and plenty more if they allude a tackle. Big Ben and the Steelers made a habit of that and that opened up more downfield plays.
Exactly.
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(09-20-2022, 12:36 PM)higgy100 Wrote: That's correct but it does take a mindset incorporated into the offense of patience. More horizontal vs. vertical. I've uttered this a hundred times but those 5-6 yard gains set up the big plays and also they have a chance on a missed tackle to go for 20 yards. It's got to be about picking and choosing your opportunities and if your OL is struggling early on then you have to incorporate this thinking into the game plan.
Would love love love to see quick hitters on 1-2 step drops to their wide-outs and let them be the RB. DB's playing several yards off the ball and that play goes for 5-6 yards without a blink and plenty more if they allude a tackle. Big Ben and the Steelers made a habit of that and that opened up more downfield plays.
Yeah I would be Andy Dalton and his 2.0 second release and let the playmakers make plays.
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(09-20-2022, 12:10 PM)impactplaya Wrote: That's another thing too. Outside of Chase,Higgins
And Evans we don't have anyone that catch the ball underneath And simply blaze past a LB
Drew Sample should not be running underneath
He is not a YAC TE. This offense should have
Added a pure speed merchant in the off season
To make teams pay for Cover 2.
I don't care if the dude gets 0 YAC if he's catching 4 yards on a check down. 4 yards>-5 yards
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(09-20-2022, 12:34 PM)J24 Wrote: They'll e eventually figure it out but I would also point out that Dallas and Pittsburgh are really good to great Defenses. With two game wreckers in Parsons and Watt. The oppossing scheme isn't the issue. Its the players they're going against.
Watt and Parsons aside, the Steelers and Cowboys aren't good teams. And we had no issue defeating the Steelers last year. If the Bengals aren't able to defeat teams with an elite defender, this is a third place team at best.
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This is a bit of an over simplification of what was going on. This wasn't a straight 4-3 over dropping into a Tampa 2 like the 90's Bucs teams. The chess piece was how they were moving Parsons and Vander Esch around. They were coming from on the line and then pealing back creating both issues in coverage and protection. Combined with the fact they were going from a Tampa 2 to a more standardized 2 from two high and single high sets there were a lot of moving parts there. They also had matching principals that were taking away some of the standard cover 2 zone beating concepts. At times they were playing Green 2, or a cover 2 sink in longer down and distances making it even tougher to attack things like the hole shot most people think of in cover 2.
It was a masterclass in how to call a defensive game. As Synric mentioned above, and what everyone mentioned last season with the Chiefs, you MUST be able to run effectively and CONSISTENTLY against these two high looks to have a chance.
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