"Special" Teams

[Sled21]

(09-20-2022, 09:18 AM)jj22 Wrote: A fake punt on 4th and 5 to keep the ball and keep marching towards a TD in overtime when you have a backup long snapper in who has never snapped in game situations and already caused a missed a extra point would have been great coaching.  

The success rate of a fake punt on 4th and 5 is very low.

[jj22]

What do you have to back that up? I've never saw an attempt of ours NOT work. Simmons used to run them with Peerman and that backup safety (who always flashed when given the chance, but was an overachiever), they are in the playbook, he just has refused to run them the last 8 years or so.

[Sled21]

(09-20-2022, 09:35 AM)jj22 Wrote: What do you have to back that up? I've never saw an attempt of ours NOT work. Simmons used to run them with Peerman and that backup safety (who always flashed when given the chance, but was an overachiever), they are in the playbook, he just has refused to run them the last 8 years or so.

Because your 4th and 5 scenario becomes more of a 4th and 15 after the snap. You have to catch the other team sleeping and not expecting it for it to work. You are better off just going for it on 4th than trying some fake play if you don't want to punt. 

[jj22]

He hasn't run a fake punt in 8 years (just for your clarification it does not turn into 4th and 15 as the punt protector takes the ball from pretty close to the snapper not the punter), so I doubt many would have seen it coming.

[KillerGoose]

Good special teams play is not about blocked punts, return TDs, or fake punts. Those are splash plays, and yes they are fantastic, but they are very rare. Good special teams play is consistent kick coverage, punt coverage, FG execution.

[XenoMorph]

(09-19-2022, 11:31 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm not calling for Simmons's head but where are our fake punts, punt/kick return TD's, blocked kicks? When is the last time we've had one? Is he overrated? His units have been solid (safe), but far from special.

Evans needs to get a shot. Not sure what he's done to get in the dog house.

All 3 phases need to contribute to maintain success. Special teams has gotten a pass for a couple years now. McPherson aside, we are going to need more explosion from the unit.

Fake Punts are a extremely desperate move...  When the Defense is playing well you play field position. you dont potentially give up good field position.

[jj22]

We've been in some desperate situations the last 8 years.....

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-20-2022, 09:10 AM)jj22 Wrote: Who have we had consistently as a return threat. Fair catch Erickson?  

Brandon Wilson. But yeah we haven't really had a good punt returner. But a guy that is reliable and makes good decisions is good I'm my opinion. Not many teams have guys ripping off long punt returns. 

[jj22]

(09-20-2022, 10:11 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Brandon Wilson. But yeah we haven't really had a good punt returner. But a guy that is reliable and makes good decisions is good I'm my opinion. Not many teams have guys ripping off long punt returns. 

 I forgot about Wilson. He did flash a lot.

[*pally*]

(09-19-2022, 11:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: Our last fake punt came from who? The Rev (Cedric)

Clayton Fedjalen ran at least 1 fake since then.

I'd rather have solid and dependable than fancy special teams

[jj22]

(09-20-2022, 10:43 AM)pally Wrote: Clayton Fedjalen ran at least 1 fake since then.

I'd rather have solid and dependable than fancy special teams

That's the safety I couldn't remember the name of.

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-20-2022, 10:13 AM)jj22 Wrote:  I forgot about Wilson. He did flash a lot.

He's still on the squad. Just on the pup list. I think Evans would flash just hasn't gotten a chance yet. I really think we need to get Evans on the field in the offense more than anything though.

[grampahol]

(09-20-2022, 09:10 AM)jj22 Wrote: Who have we had consistently as a return threat. Fair catch Erickson?  

Simmons has made the point many times..Punt returner's main function is to catch the ball and not put in on the ground for the other team to grab..  If the punt return guy catches and secures the ball it's still your ball. If not it's usually the other team's ball and bad things usually happen.. 
I'll take a boring punt return guy all day as opposed to one who leave the ball flopping around on the ground. 

[jj22]

I don't think it's either fair catches or fumbles Gramps.... Simmons does fancy the fair catch tho. He has said it repeatedly.

[grampahol]

(09-20-2022, 11:58 AM)jj22 Wrote: I don't think it's either fair catches or fumbles Gramps.... Simmons does fancy the fair catch tho. He has said it repeatedly.

Of course not, but it's pure numbers. Every team has special teams and Simmons isn't going away unless he somehow gets so frustrated he quits.
Odds of a fumble go up exponentially with a gambler who wants to try to break them all.. 

[SunsetBengal]

(09-20-2022, 10:04 AM)jj22 Wrote: We've been in some desperate situations the last 8 years.....

Part of the decline of spectacular special teams plays has directly to do with rule changes to reduce the number of violent collisions on the field.  That, and the reduction in the amount of practice time has put a pinch on special teams units, as offense and defense are going to command the lion's share of the allotted practice time.  Remember, most blocks, fakes and great returns are generally superbly executed by a highly orchestrated unit where every member carries out their specific mission to perfection.

With that in mind, I believe that we're more likely to see some exciting special teams plays as a result of planned execution, rather than by result of a mistake on someone's part, as the season progresses and the players are more settled into their roles.

[Au165]

• There were 9 kick return TD's last season on roughly 2,771 kick offs that were kicked.
• There were 2 punt return TD's last season on 879 fielded punts.
• There were 8 punts blocked on the 2066 that were attempted.
• There were 15 FG's blocked last season on 1027 attempts.
  

The things you are upset we haven't gotten occurred 34 times total last year out of 6,743 total chances or .5% of the time. This really is a case of just looking for something to be upset about. 

[jj22]

Wilson got a TD on a kick return. Other than that are pushing 1 of these above categories in nearly a decade.

Thanks for highlighting that they do still occur tho. Appreciate the work to prove they aren't obsolete with the new rules, and they are still possible and happening.

You guys have just gotten used to the fair catch and/or no blocked kicks, fake punts, returns etc... If so just say so. I get it. It's all we see typically of a Simmons run unit.

[Au165]

(09-20-2022, 01:51 PM)jj22 Wrote: Wilson got a TD on a kick return. Other than that are pushing 1 of these above categories in nearly a decade.

Thanks for highlighting that they do still occur tho. Appreciate the work to prove they aren't obsolete with the new rules, and they are still possible and happening.

You guys have just gotten used to the fair catch and/or no blocked kicks, fake punts, returns etc... If so just say so. I get it. It's all we see typically of a Simmons run unit.

I get you are going to die on this hill, but claiming something that occurs .5% of the time "proves" they still occur as some victory is kind of comical. Sure in the hyperbolic sense yea they occur just like onside kicks and Hail Mary's do. People running around complaining their teams aren't doing those would be met with as much skeptisim. 

The funny thing is the Hail Mary actually converts at 9.3%, so literally a play considered to be a prayer is exponentially more likely to occur than what you are complaining about. The onside kick is successful just 4.23% of the time and people are talking about how ridiculously hard it is to get and if a rule change needs to occur to make it more viable. 

Again...you are complaining about something that occurs league wide .5% of the time they are attempted. The Patriots had a 99.9% chance of losing in the SB to the Falcons with 2:03 left in the 3rd quarter and orchestrated one of the greatest comebacks in NFL history, you are literally complaining about something LESS likely than that happening.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

It's not a primary concern, but I looked it up and there's some truth to this, more than I thought there would be actually (all regular season stats)....

-KO return TDs in both 2019 and 2020. Each year only had 7 KO TDs, so lately they're well above average there.
-No Punt return TD since 2012, though, and 101 Punt TDs have happened since 2012, so that's pretty bad.
-Last punt block was 2018, but there's only been 45 punt blocks since 2018. So it's not terribly out of norm at all.
-Last FG block was 2017, 67 FG blocks since 2017, so they're below average there.

...so their Punt Return TDs have been really lacking, their KO Return TDs have been great lately, their Punk Blocks have been about average-ish, and their FG block is lacking.

Admittedly these are just massed stats and don't take into account that bad special teams are bad and good special teams are good, but still... Other than punt return TDs there's nothing to really be massively worried about.