Why is the running game (or lack thereof) not a hot topic?

[TheFan]

(09-20-2022, 03:08 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: People want to ***** and complain about the offense (and its granted to an extent - and I have def bitched and complained) but the Cowboys and Steelers have two of THE BEST defensive players in the league on their teams. 

Prasons and Watt have the ability to wreck games. Maybe that is why our offense has struggled at times. At some point you have to just say their defense and players were better than ours. 

And you don't think coaches have anything to do with that? This is not a well coached team at this point in time on offense. From top to bottom they are failing everywhere. OL is lost and confused, play calling is lost and confused, Burrow is lost and confused. 

Talent wise our offense should be top 10. But we have no identity or creativity to anything we do to make it hard for defenses. Our offense looks even worse than last year so far.

[TheFan]

(09-20-2022, 02:44 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Thanks.  I don't read every thread.  I have seen some mention the lack of a running game in some threads I have read.  But I guess my point is it seems more like a side discussion in those threads than in my opinion a significant area of concern.  But maybe I missed some thread on the same topic.  If so my mistake.

This is what I shared in a thread about bad play calling:

Not only has play design been an issue but play calling has been horrid as well. 


What did we know about Cappa and Collins when we signed them? They were really good run blockers and good enough pass blockers. What do our coaches do? Run the opposite way behind a rookie. 

For some unknown reason this this is the breakdown of our runs per game.
Steelers:
LEFT - 13 for an average of      2ypc
MIDDLE - 4 for an average of   3ypc
RIGHT - 3 for an average of      6.5 ypc

Cowboys:
LEFT - 10 for an average of       2.4ypc
MIDDLE - 9 for an average of.   2.8 ypc
RIGHT - 7 for an average of       5.1 ypc

To me this is where the ineptitude of our coaching staff becomes mind boggling. In addition to what everyone has pointed out about how predictable they are we just run stupid plays and don't use people to their strengths

[Whatever]

(09-20-2022, 02:17 PM)740Bengal Wrote: Lack Taylor also has garbage running schemes..... All he knows how to do is run a HB Stretch, a toss sweep, or whatever the hell the backwards straight ahead toss was.

Pollack is the run game coordinator.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Bengals Rushing Offenses Yards/YPC, bolded are above average (16th+)

2022: 15th/24th (So Far)
2021: 23rd/26th
2020: 24th/27th
2019: 25th/24th
2018: 21st/8th
2017: 31st/29th
2016: 13th/23rd
2015: 13th/23rd
2014: 6th/12th
2013: 18th/27th
2012: 18th/20th
2011: 19th/27th
2010: 27th/32nd
2009: 9th/24th
2008: 29th/30th
2007: 24th/28th
2006: 26th/25th
2005: 11th/9th
2004: 17th/14th

That's all the years that ESPN stats. The Bengals have been above average in YPC only 4 times the last 19 years and 2 of those 4 times were 2004 and 2005, so just 2 times in the last 17 years.

Out of the 38 possible outcomes (2 for each of the 19 years) the Bengals have only been top-10 on 4 of them and bottom-10 on 22 of them.

The Bengals historically have been a terrible running team. This is just more of the same.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-20-2022, 02:28 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: jonah is an above average run blocker. Idk how he's playing this year, but he's always been a good run blocker. Better than his pass blocking.

Volson is the weak link despite his pff grades. I honestly think Volson is throwing Jonah off his game. Just my opinion though

I think so too, in a way.
I think Jonah doesn't have that trust built in yet that Volson can cover his area so that Jonah can focus on the outside.


According to PFF, Jonah Williams is the weakest run blocker this year through two games.
44.3 run block grade.

Everyone else is graded 60 or higher.

I can't speak specifically to whether Volson is actually better than Williams so far, but I do know the run game has been far better to the right of Karras compared to the left side.

[Joelist]

We also lack a big bruising back. We had one but didn't keep him this preseason and last (Patrick). Use our blocking TE as a FB, call Patrick up and run to the right pure power style - can't do worse than what is happening.

[thompson19osu]

Check the run grades for the left side of our line….eeek. Hate to say we should only run right but we realistically have better chance for positive yardage based on their run grades even if defense knows its coming. Also its so obvious when we are going to rush they can sell out. We hardly ever do play action so teams don’t even have to be on guard for that.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-20-2022, 03:50 PM)Joelist Wrote: We also lack a big bruising back. We had one but didn't keep him this preseason and last (Patrick). Use our blocking TE as a FB, call Patrick up and run to the right pure power style - can't do worse than what is happening.

Well the Bengals don't have a good blocking TE now that Sample is out, and they don't have a FB.
But they definitely could use a bruiser.

You'd think Perine was a bruiser at his size, but he sure doesn't run like one.

[Joelist]

(09-20-2022, 03:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Well the Bengals don't have a good blocking TE now that Sample is out, and they don't have a FB.
But they definitely could use a bruiser.

You'd think Perine was a bruiser at his size, but he sure doesn't run like one.

The other TE we kept is a big boy so it could work - or bring in a big boy. I'm just opining that maybe, just maybe they need to stop trying to be cute and just shove the football down the other team's throat. 

[*ochocincos*]

(09-20-2022, 03:57 PM)Joelist Wrote: The other TE we kept is a big boy so it could work - or bring in a big boy. I'm just opining that maybe, just maybe they need to stop trying to be cute and just shove the football down the other team's throat. 

They have the brutes on the OL to be able to do this, you'd think.
I just don't see them getting push off the LOS though.
Maybe that's not what the play design calls for, but rather lateral movement more like last year?

[*Synric*]

(09-20-2022, 03:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think so too, in a way.
I think Jonah doesn't have that trust built in yet that Volson can cover his area so that Jonah can focus on the outside.


According to PFF, Jonah Williams is the weakest run blocker this year through two games.
44.3 run block grade.

Everyone else is graded 60 or higher.

I can't speak specifically to whether Volson is actually better than Williams so far, but I do know the run game has been far better to the right of Karras compared to the left side.

Volson might have a little to do with it but Williams has just looked bad and against second tier talent. Collins and Williams right now are bigger problems than Cordell Volson.

[XenoMorph]

(09-20-2022, 03:08 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: People want to ***** and complain about the offense (and its granted to an extent - and I have def bitched and complained) but the Cowboys and Steelers have two of THE BEST defensive players in the league on their teams. 

Prasons and Watt have the ability to wreck games. Maybe that is why our offense has struggled at times. At some point you have to just say their defense and players were better than ours. 

Yes and a smart team would scheme to minimize their impact...   (Not let them run free at the QB)

[Joelist]

(09-20-2022, 04:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They have the brutes on the OL to be able to do this, you'd think.
I just don't see them getting push off the LOS though.
Maybe that's not what the play design calls for, but rather lateral movement more like last year?

True enough, they also would need to stop using wide zone and let their power pigs play power football - good old fashioned drive blocking. This was the traditional riposte to defenses that live on side to side speed. 

[WeezyBengal]

(09-20-2022, 03:22 PM)TheFan Wrote: And you don't think coaches have anything to do with that? This is not a well coached team at this point in time on offense. From top to bottom they are failing everywhere. OL is lost and confused, play calling is lost and confused, Burrow is lost and confused. 

Talent wise our offense should be top 10. But we have no identity or creativity to anything we do to make it hard for defenses. Our offense looks even worse than last year so far.

I agree to an extent, but I think its somewhere in the middle. 

I don't think this offense is as bad as they have shown the first two weeks. I think the defenses they have played has MADE this offense look bad. Mainly Parsons and Watt which they just didn't have an answer for because they are such good players and game wreckers. 

I do question play calling and design to an extent, but again...I dont think its as bad as those defenses has made it seem. 

[WeezyBengal]

(09-20-2022, 04:08 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Yes and a smart team would scheme to minimize their impact...   (Not let them run free at the QB)

That was a mistake by individual players (Collins). It had nothing to do with scheme. 

[*ochocincos*]

(09-20-2022, 04:01 PM)Synric Wrote: Volson might have a little to do with it but Williams has just looked bad and against second tier talent. Collins and Williams right now are bigger problems than Cordell Volson.

This is what surprises me though, as Williams was much better in pass protection the previous two seasons compared to this season so far.

[KillerGoose]

(09-20-2022, 03:50 PM)Joelist Wrote: We also lack a big bruising back. We had one but didn't keep him this preseason and last (Patrick). Use our blocking TE as a FB, call Patrick up and run to the right pure power style - can't do worse than what is happening.

I am not sure, specifically, what are you referring to but Mixon is a big back. He's 230 pounds, and Perine is 240. There are big backs on the roster, but they aren't very good at breaking tackles. 

[Boomer Anderson]

(09-20-2022, 01:55 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Any reason Chris Evans can't be used as a change-of-pace back? Or is his blocking so poor we have to rely on Perine for 3rd downs?

I’d like to see Evans more also. Heck, he can’t block much worse than Mixon or Perine.

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-20-2022, 02:19 PM)higgy100 Wrote: If you read thru the box scores of damn near most games you'll see a great majority of teams that use multiple backs. Guys that give starters a blow or backs that have a better/different/more varied skill set. Change of pace where the D simply can't continually focus on the same tendencies.

Out of everything I've seen I'm more shocked that Evans has not been playing.

This is a question I was wondering after the last game. I'm a Mixon fan but Perine has shown big play potential as well as Evans. I just don't understand it. I mean Perine had the bad plays in the superbowl but he's flashed enough to deserve time in the game and will only help Mixon getting rest. I also saw a breakdown of Evans in the preseason where it looked like his decision on his cuts caused some of the holding penalties. But regardless of that he flashed enough last season to warrant touches. Evans was shifty receiving last year with a nose for the 1st down marker. Which a couple 1st downs a game might make a world of difference for this offense.

[NUGDUKWE]

(09-20-2022, 04:10 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I agree to an extent, but I think its somewhere in the middle. 

I don't think this offense is as bad as they have shown the first two weeks. I think the defenses they have played has MADE this offense look bad. Mainly Parsons and Watt which they just didn't have an answer for because they are such good players and game wreckers. 

I do question play calling and design to an extent, but again...I dont think its as bad as those defenses has made it seem. 

In the past(last year) we helped out our tackles playing this top end talent. This year we don't seem to be doing that as much. I know the stats say we've improved on the oline and I won't argue that but last year in Pittsburgh we didn't give up one sack. Now we give up 7.