Zim is doing a good job against AZ

[Earendil]

Last year was just a goat rodeo on both sides of the ball.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-12-2015, 12:05 PM)Sled21 Wrote:   

You can't gloss over the fact that for a portion of last season, we not only didn't have Burfict or Atkins, we had NO starting linebackers......

Never did gloss over it. The difference is, Zimmer found random people to replace injuries and perform at a high level (Newman, Gilberry, Jones, Ndwuke, etc) and Guenther doesn't. As someone said earlier.. Zimmer responded to adversity with top 10 defenses regardless. Guenther has not.

Zimmer lost Atkins for 7 games in 2013 and still had the 3rd overall defense.

[Utts]

I have no doubt in my mind Zim would do even more with this group. He's brilliant. We'll see what Paulie can do with a thin secondary against the loaded Steelers offense.

[GreenCornBengal]

(12-12-2015, 04:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Never did gloss over it. The difference is, Zimmer found random people to replace injuries and perform at a high level (Newman, Gilberry, Jones, Ndwuke, etc) and Guenther doesn't. As someone said earlier.. Zimmer responded to adversity with top 10 defenses regardless. Guenther has not.

Zimmer lost Atkins for 7 games in 2013 and still had the 3rd overall defense.

I tend to agree with you but the players speak very highly of Pauly G. Of course they aren't going to say bad things about him, but Vontaze and the LB crew make it sound like Pauly is just as good as Zim. Having Marvin Lewis at the helm has definitely helped both D coordinators, and both D coordinators had great position coaches during their time here. I think a lot is still left to be learned about Pauly G, and then we can decide who is better. As of now, Zim takes home the trophy, but he has been a D coordinator for quite some time. Lets give Pauly time and see what happens.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-12-2015, 05:10 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I tend to agree with you but the players speak very highly of Pauly G. Of course they aren't going to say bad things about him, but Vontaze and the LB crew make it sound like Pauly is just as good as Zim. Having Marvin Lewis at the helm has definitely helped both D coordinators, and both D coordinators had great position coaches during their time here. I think a lot is still left to be learned about Pauly G, and then we can decide who is better. As of now, Zim takes home the trophy, but he has been a D coordinator for quite some time. Lets give Pauly time and see what happens.

I don't buy it.

The Bengals D was ATROCIOUS for the first 5 years of Marvin's tenure. That's why Zimmer arrived in the first place. You can point out how good the Ravens D was when he was there, but guess what.. any defense with like 3 HoFs on it is going to be great. Zimmer came and saved the defense, and then Guenther got trained by Zimmer and was handed a Zimmer-built defense already ready. I don't think Marvin had any effect in any of their success.

[HarleyDog]

Regardless of which team Zim is the coach (exeption Pittsburgh), I will always pull for him because he pretty freaken awesome and has brought a lot of great football to Cincinnati. Unless he's playing against us, I'll be rooting for him.

[Sled21]

Absolutely.... I am a huge Zimmer fan, and was devastated when he left. But PG is doing well...

[GreenCornBengal]

(12-12-2015, 09:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't buy it.

The Bengals D was ATROCIOUS for the first 5 years of Marvin's tenure. That's why Zimmer arrived in the first place. You can point out how good the Ravens D was when he was there, but guess what.. any defense with like 3 HoFs on it is going to be great. Zimmer came and saved the defense, and then Guenther got trained by Zimmer and was handed a Zimmer-built defense already ready. I don't think Marvin had any effect in any of their success.

Either way, they attribute Vontaze coming to Cinci by way of Marvin Lewis and that made both coordinators defenses better... can't argue that one 

[Shake n Blake]

(12-11-2015, 11:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't think Guenther is any better. He just finally benched Hall in favor of Jones, got back Burfict (the defense was awful without him) and Atkins.

I think the difference is..
Guenther can manage to not mess up a defense that has Atkins/Burfict/Dunlap/Iloka/Nelson/Jones.
Zimmer made a top 5 defense with Dhani Jones/Robert Geathers/Keith Rivers/Tank Johnson/Chris Crocker/Nedu Ndukwe.

Zimmer did a LOT with much much less than Guenther has to work with this year. Last year when Guenther didn't have Burfict or a 100% Atkins? 22nd overall, 12th scoring. The Bengals have the least blitzes in the NFL this year and they're still 9th in sacks and 4th in INTs. They're winning with talent more than scheme.

Plus that 1st scoring defense ranking is sure helped by the fact that 4 of the last 5 games have been played against McCown/Hoyer/Foles/Davis.. damn sad lineup of QBs right there. We quickly forget how AWFUL the Bengals looked against the run before Burfict came back. He had no answer for it until he simply had more talent on defense than the other teams had on offense. I don't trust his ability to scheme a win against a superior cast of talent. I did with Zimmer.

You didn't mention that he also had the best CB tandem in the NFL (Hall + Joseph), Peko, Maualuga (at SLB, where he thrived) Sims and Rucker (who is still playing well for the Cards). Geathers was actually pretty solid back then and Crock was a good player for us. 

We're clearly more talented now, but I don't think that '09 defense was the collection of scrubs it's often painted to be.