We all said ZT couldn't coach...

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-06-2022, 03:03 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I'll be the first to eat crow.

I always liked ZT as a head coach, but always thought his offense was lacking. It was set up on go balls to Chase and his offense wasn't sustainable.

After the first half of the season, a lot of us complained about the offense and how we couldn't beat cover two.

Well, this offense has evolved remarkably since then. They are using the entire field, throwing intermediate, and running with consistency.

I think we need to give ZT and his offensive staff a TON of credit for adjusting on the fly and turning this offense around from one dimensional to completely fluent.

Bengals EPA vs Cover 2
First 6 weeks: -.07 (28th in league)
After week 6: .36 (1st)

That is incredible.

I was ready to kill him again when they ran that jet sweep on 4th and inches, but then I heard Burrow audibled to it.  My bad.


He did deserve a lot of criticism early on for the lack of creative schematics and wasn't adapting to the lack of time for Burrow.  It took a few weeks, but wow are they looking good right now.  It actually looks so easy right now.  If teams want to play cover 2 deep, they just die a slow death with high % passes and they even have a balanced attack with the run game.  This is BETTER (though not as exciting, I get it) than the deep shots, quick score offenses.  Why?  It keeps the other team off the field and keeps the defense fresh.  

I have never been more confident in the offense.  They are truly able to beat teams in so many ways.  The fact that they won three straight without Chase was amazing.  Guys stepped up.  The line isn't gelling, it has gelled.  They played absolutely fantastic against KC and that only sack was Burrow going down on his own.  

The coaches deserve a lot of credit for adapting to the team and for finding ways to attack defenses.  Burrow gets a lot of credit, too, for burying the ego a bit and just taking what is given.  It may not make as many highlight reels, but they are going to be VERY tough to defend.  

ZT and Callahan deserve our praise now.  Lou has deserved it all season.  Simmons deserves it now after making the tough choice to replace Huber.  

[Sled21]

(12-07-2022, 09:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:
I was ready to kill him again when they ran that jet sweep on 4th and inches, but then I heard Burrow audibled to it.  My bad.


He did deserve a lot of criticism early on for the lack of creative schematics and wasn't adapting to the lack of time for Burrow.  It took a few weeks, but wow are they looking good right now.  It actually looks so easy right now.  If teams want to play cover 2 deep, they just die a slow death with high % passes and they even have a balanced attack with the run game.  This is BETTER (though not as exciting, I get it) than the deep shots, quick score offenses.  Why?  It keeps the other team off the field and keeps the defense fresh.  

I have never been more confident in the offense.  They are truly able to beat teams in so many ways.  The fact that they won three straight without Chase was amazing.  Guys stepped up.  The line isn't gelling, it has gelled.  They played absolutely fantastic against KC and that only sack was Burrow going down on his own.  

The coaches deserve a lot of credit for adapting to the team and for finding ways to attack defenses.  Burrow gets a lot of credit, too, for burying the ego a bit and just taking what is given.  It may not make as many highlight reels, but they are going to be VERY tough to defend.  

ZT and Callahan deserve our praise now.  Lou has deserved it all season.  Simmons deserves it now after making the tough choice to replace Huber.  

I know it's probably not this way with you, but I get a kick out of reading people complain about a call Taylor made, then when they find out Burrow made it they are all like "Oh, Joe called it, ok" It's still the same call. If Dunlap had done what he was supposed to on that play (there's a theme here) Taylor scores 7 on that sweep. I get it, people hate the Jet Sweep. You know what I hate even more, the QB sneak. Every time Joe sneaks the ball, it is an excuse for the defense to go ripping at his fingers to "try to dislodge the ball" and all it takes is a broken finger on his right hand and our season truly is over. Not to mention the shots to the knee in the pile. All kinds of bad things can happen on the sneak. I wish we'd just take it out of the playbook, but Joe's gonna Joe and he's a football player, not a diva QB.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-07-2022, 09:38 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I know it's probably not this way with you, but I get a kick out of reading people complain about a call Taylor made, then when they find out Burrow made it they are all like "Oh, Joe called it, ok" It's still the same call. If Dunlap had done what he was supposed to on that play (there's a theme here) Taylor scores 7 on that sweep. I get it, people hate the Jet Sweep. You know what I hate even more, the QB sneak. Every time Joe sneaks the ball, it is an excuse for the defense to go ripping at his fingers to "try to dislodge the ball" and all it takes is a broken finger on his right hand and our season truly is over. Not to mention the shots to the knee in the pile. All kinds of bad things can happen on the sneak. I wish we'd just take it out of the playbook, but Joe's gonna Joe and he's a football player, not a diva QB.

I get it and that is why I usually would only reserve the QB sneak for 4th and inches, but Joe knows how to secure the ball at his chest, and he isn't at the goal line and going to risk extending the ball as it could be punched out for a fumble (CTB nearly had one on Mahomes).  It wasn't just the jet sweep, it was Taylor who seems to have ball security issues.  

If it is anything less than inches, just hand the ball off to your RB.  The line is playing so well now, I feel pretty confident in Perine's ability to move the chains.  

[Sled21]

(12-07-2022, 09:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I get it and that is why I usually would only reserve the QB sneak for 4th and inches, but Joe knows how to secure the ball at his chest, and he isn't at the goal line and going to risk extending the ball as it could be punched out for a fumble (CTB nearly had one on Mahomes).  It wasn't just the jet sweep, it was Taylor who seems to have ball security issues.  

If it is anything less than inches, just hand the ball off to your RB.  The line is playing so well now, I feel pretty confident in Perine's ability to move the chains.  

Yes, I agree going with Perine straight up the gut is probably what I would have done, but it's also what KC was expecting and set up for. Maybe I'm not remembering, but when has Taylor had ball security issues. I know he muffed a couple of punts, but I don't remember him losing many if any passes.

[Soonerpeace]

It’s so funny how Sled21 mentioned how stupid some of Taylor’s play calls are bad then posters hear Joe audibled and the demeanor changes. He audibles to the jet sweep a lot. All you have to do is watch the other games. 4th and 1 on the goal line whether you have Derrick Henry or Samaje is tough.

Zac as a former QB believes in giving his QB unprecedented command of the plays. They give him several plays to use depending on what he sees and he can even audible out of it. But the key here is some are and some aren’t. We showed the stat on Volson’s ridiculous pass protection jump. A huge jump. He’s gone from crap to the best rookie OL of the year level. Jonah Williams has played tremendously better .

It’s not that done light has come on for Zac and Callahan it’s an improved offensive line. And the offensive line has handicapped them throughout the last few years.

[*PhilHos*]

(12-07-2022, 09:38 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I know it's probably not this way with you, but I get a kick out of reading people complain about a call Taylor made, then when they find out Burrow made it they are all like "Oh, Joe called it, ok" It's still the same call. 

Yeah, why is it a bad call if Zac called it, but it's NOT a bad call if Joe called it?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-07-2022, 10:16 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It’s so funny how Sled21 mentioned how stupid some of Taylor’s play calls are bad then posters hear Joe audibled and the demeanor changes. He audibles to the jet sweep a lot. All you have to do is watch the other games. 4th and 1 on the goal line whether you have Derrick Henry or Samaje is tough.

Zac as a former QB believes in giving his QB unprecedented command of the plays. They give him several plays to use depending on what he sees and he can even audible out of it. But the key here is some are and some aren’t. We showed the stat on Volson’s ridiculous pass protection jump. A huge jump. He’s gone from crap to the best rookie OL of the year level. Jonah Williams has played tremendously better .

It’s not that done light has come on for Zac and Callahan it’s an improved offensive line. And the offensive line has handicapped them throughout the last few years.

Exactly. The line has handicapped this team going on six years. I mean, it's like no one has a memory. The last time we had a good line ....one better than this one....what did the offense look like? With two different OCs, I might add. People don't understand that the K.I.S.S. principle can apply to a lot of things. Including reasons for offenses failing, and the dreaded bad playcalling. Look our offensive line from even last season.....some aren't even currently employed. Then realize there were worse players manning those slots than they were. Ogbuehi, Hart, Price, Bodine, Jordan, Miller, Redmond, the ghost of Andre Smith.....etc. Those not only handcuffed the current staff, they torpedoed Marvin's last years. 

It really does mostly boil down to that. We're talking having players that really shouldn't be above Practice Squad that started. For year after year.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-07-2022, 01:12 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yeah, why is it a bad call if Zac called it, but it's NOT a bad call if Joe called it?

Oh, you know......

[Earendil]

(12-07-2022, 01:24 PM)Wyche Wrote: Oh, you know......

Are you saying people might be arguing in bad faith? 

[Soonerpeace]

(12-07-2022, 01:54 PM)Earendil Wrote: Are you saying people might be arguing in bad faith? 

I think he implies that some people are very selective in their criticism. They are quick to jump at Zac on poor play calls then when they find out Joe audibled they don’t criticize him. And he’s right happens here all the time.

[BengalsBong]

He is young and was a QB coach pretty much he has grown a lot since he came here, and he has a lot of growing left to do. He has shown he will adapt, and he will need to do this many times in the future to be a success. He has Burrow which will make his journey easier. The more experience he gets the better he will get. Nance said in an interview with Lap to sit back and enjoy the ride. I say go confident or don't go at all. Go Bengals it is going to be a fun ride.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-07-2022, 01:54 PM)Earendil Wrote: Are you saying people might be arguing in bad faith? 

Oh never .......

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-07-2022, 09:38 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I know it's probably not this way with you, but I get a kick out of reading people complain about a call Taylor made, then when they find out Burrow made it they are all like "Oh, Joe called it, ok" It's still the same call. If Dunlap had done what he was supposed to on that play (there's a theme here) Taylor scores 7 on that sweep. I get it, people hate the Jet Sweep. You know what I hate even more, the QB sneak. Every time Joe sneaks the ball, it is an excuse for the defense to go ripping at his fingers to "try to dislodge the ball" and all it takes is a broken finger on his right hand and our season truly is over. Not to mention the shots to the knee in the pile. All kinds of bad things can happen on the sneak. I wish we'd just take it out of the playbook, but Joe's gonna Joe and he's a football player, not a diva QB.

Completely agree. Joe makes some head scratching audibles and I also hate the QB sneak especially on 2nd down situations.

But yeah, Joe is just Joe and this is the way he plays and that is more than fine with me.

(12-07-2022, 09:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I get it and that is why I usually would only reserve the QB sneak for 4th and inches, but Joe knows how to secure the ball at his chest, and he isn't at the goal line and going to risk extending the ball as it could be punched out for a fumble (CTB nearly had one on Mahomes).  It wasn't just the jet sweep, it was Taylor who seems to have ball security issues.  

If it is anything less than inches, just hand the ball off to your RB.  The line is playing so well now, I feel pretty confident in Perine's ability to move the chains.  

Yep, hand the ball off to the RB and we will most likely get the first like 98% of the time.

[Tomkat]

I'm not gonna lie - I was pissed at first and hated the play call (when Dunlap blew up the sweep on 4th down) but after
thinking about it... I LIKE the aggressiveness. It portrays 2 things - trust in the offense (to make it) and trust in the defense (if they don't.)
It's better than conservative Marvin-ball, that's for sure.

[Essex Johnson]

(12-06-2022, 03:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Good luck to any team that hires Anarumo as their HC. The Bengals have the 3rd most % of their cap spent on defense in the NFL and are...

13th scoring defense
12th overall defense
16th passing defense (11th in YPA)
15th rushing defense (14th in YPA)
t-29th in sacks
19th in takeaways
22nd in 3rd Down %

...and have faced probably the easiest QB schedule they'll ever have through 12 games. They've faced exactly 3 NFL starting caliber QBs, only 1 of which is a good passer.

His def reminds me of "Patriots Way", don't give up big plays , FG over TDs and make adjustments and shut other team down in 2nd half.. that is winning football

[Soonerpeace]

Interesting today Zac said their offense is the simplest it’s been.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-08-2022, 01:05 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: His def reminds me of "Patriots Way", don't give up big plays , FG over TDs and make adjustments and shut other team down in 2nd half.. that is winning football

"Make em play left handed"....also a Darth Hoodie staple.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-08-2022, 01:05 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: His def reminds me of "Patriots Way", don't give up big plays , FG over TDs and make adjustments and shut other team down in 2nd half.. that is winning football

Then it's the knockoff Walmart brand of Patriots defense. Here's the Patriots scoring defense since 2001...

2022: 7th scoring defense
2021: 2nd scoring defense
2020: 7th scoring defense
2019: 1st scoring defense
SB Win 2018: 7th scoring defense
SB App 2017: 5th scoring defense
SB Win 2016: 1st scoring defense
2015: 10th scoring defense
SB Win 2014: 8th scoring defense
2013: 10th scoring defense
2012: 9th scoring defense
SB App 2011: 15th scoring defense
2010: 8th scoring defense
2009: 5th scoring defense
2008: 8th scoring defense
SB App 2007: 4th scoring defense
2006: 2nd scoring defense
2005: 17th scoring defense
SB Win 2004: 2nd scoring defense
SB Win 2003: 1st scoring defense
2002: 17th scoring defense
SB Win 2001: 6th scoring defense

That's top-10 in 19 out of 22 years, and 16 of the last 17 years. It's hard to even imagine how amazingly consistently great the Patriots scoring defenses have been for over two decades.

The Bengals scoring defenses were 17th last year and 13th this year.

[*Synric*]

(12-08-2022, 06:50 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Then it's the knockoff Walmart brand of Patriots defense. Here's the Patriots scoring defense since 2001...

2022: 7th scoring defense
2021: 2nd scoring defense
2020: 7th scoring defense
2019: 1st scoring defense
SB Win 2018: 7th scoring defense
SB App 2017: 5th scoring defense
SB Win 2016: 1st scoring defense
2015: 10th scoring defense
SB Win 2014: 8th scoring defense
2013: 10th scoring defense
2012: 9th scoring defense
SB App 2011: 15th scoring defense
2010: 8th scoring defense
2009: 5th scoring defense
2008: 8th scoring defense
SB App 2007: 4th scoring defense
2006: 2nd scoring defense
2005: 17th scoring defense
SB Win 2004: 2nd scoring defense
SB Win 2003: 1st scoring defense
2002: 17th scoring defense
SB Win 2001: 6th scoring defense

That's top-10 in 19 out of 22 years, and 16 of the last 17 years. It's hard to even imagine how amazingly consistently great the Patriots scoring defenses have been for over two decades.

The Bengals scoring defenses were 17th last year and 13th this year.

Bengals were 17th in scoring defense in 2021 with 21.8 points allowed per game. Tampa Bay was 7th with 20.9... The difference between the Bengals being 17th and a top 5 scoring defense was 1.2 points per game...

In 2022 Bengals are 13th with 21.3 points per game with alot of the top 10 teams hovering around 18 to 19 points per game allowed.


For me scoring defense isnt something you worry about the "Ranking" it's about being around that 21 points per game or lower. 21 is the sweet spot for good NFL defenses. 

[Essex Johnson]

(12-08-2022, 06:50 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Then it's the knockoff Walmart brand of Patriots defense. Here's the Patriots scoring defense since 2001...

2022: 7th scoring defense
2021: 2nd scoring defense
2020: 7th scoring defense
2019: 1st scoring defense
SB Win 2018: 7th scoring defense
SB App 2017: 5th scoring defense
SB Win 2016: 1st scoring defense
2015: 10th scoring defense
SB Win 2014: 8th scoring defense
2013: 10th scoring defense
2012: 9th scoring defense
SB App 2011: 15th scoring defense
2010: 8th scoring defense
2009: 5th scoring defense
2008: 8th scoring defense
SB App 2007: 4th scoring defense
2006: 2nd scoring defense
2005: 17th scoring defense
SB Win 2004: 2nd scoring defense
SB Win 2003: 1st scoring defense
2002: 17th scoring defense
SB Win 2001: 6th scoring defense

That's top-10 in 19 out of 22 years, and 16 of the last 17 years. It's hard to even imagine how amazingly consistently great the Patriots scoring defenses have been for over two decades.

The Bengals scoring defenses were 17th last year and 13th this year.

I believe we are top 5 in scoring defense in 2nd half in what i found, and I know we are high in least plays over 20 yards... that is a winning combo reflects what ive seen out of New England in the past.