PFF Grades - Week 15

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-19-2022, 02:59 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Since they’ve already picked up his 5th year option he’ll have an entire season to prove he should be paid like a top LT. He will have to be much more consistent.

That's why they need to try and lock him up after this season, before he gets a chance to improve more during his contract year. 

[sandwedge]

(12-19-2022, 03:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Mauch is a beauty!

Is that Pro Wrestler, Hillbilly Jim?

[*rfaulk34*]

(12-20-2022, 12:08 AM)WVUHomer Wrote: Unless things change, FA does not sound like it will be an option for improving that position. As of right now, per Spotrac, these are the FA options for OT:

Jack Conklin CLE
George Fant NYJ
Mike McGlinchey SF
Isaiah Wynn NE
Terrence Steele DAL

Of the above, the only ones I see their team let get away is Conklin, Fant and Wynn. Of those, I'd go Conklin then Wynn (even if his injuries scare me). Maybe FP sees a better candidate than I. 

Even looking at this draft, may not be able to get a talent that could supplant LC (at pick 31). Maybe Mauch or Wright (who i picked in my mock) but even then, you're gambling on: a. the player being there b. he works out (Isaiah Wilson flashbacks for the Titans).

It really feels like we will just have to go with what we have and wait until the 2024 draft to replace LC. At that point, I'd hope we have an extension on Jonah. Hell, maybe D Smith finally is able to show us what he has but seems unlikely at this point considering he's never stayed healthy enough to dress, let alone play.

I screamed from the mountain tops for Conklin last time he was available. Bengals won't be able to afford him this time. 

[WVUHomer]

(12-20-2022, 12:19 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I screamed from the mountain tops for Conklin last time he was available. Bengals won't be able to afford him this time. 

Right and that leads to the point.

We don't have a great opportunity as things stand to upgrade the OT spot this offseason without extreme luck. Also, Spotrac shows we have 50M in cap space next year with Pratt, Bell, Apple, Hurst and Perine to resign.

Our best chance is to keep LC and draft a developmental (not rd 1 or 2 unless they feel he will supplant LC by year end) OT that fits our scheme.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-20-2022, 12:35 AM)WVUHomer Wrote: Right and that leads to the point.

We don't have a great opportunity as things stand to upgrade the OT spot this offseason without extreme luck. Also, Spotrac shows we have 50M in cap space next year with Pratt, Bell, Apple, Hurst and Perine to resign.

Our best chance is to keep LC and draft a developmental (not rd 1 or 2 unless they feel he will supplant LC by year end) OT that fits our scheme.

You are not reading that right on our cap space. 

Yeah, we have $50 million, with 37 guys signed. You need to project 11 more guys into the cap before you even get to Bell, Pratt, Hurst, Apple, & Perine. Plus draft picks. Plus Practice squad. Plus you know we cannot use all the room at the start, there has to be some cushion for signings & guys getting hurt in-season. 

I've done the math, and even with VERY low estimates on re-signing other guys, I come up with around $29 mil with Bates, Pratt, Bell, Hurst, Apple, & Perine out there (assuming we don't cut a big ticket guy). And you know we are gonna want AT LEAST $5 mil in cushion. We usually operate at around $8-$10. So think more like $19-$24 mil or so. Though we could restructure some guys or move on from a higher priced player ot two. 

Big $$ FA's are extremely unlikely in my view. Retaining our guys and rookies and maybe a discounted vet chasing a ring. 

[BengalsBong]

(12-19-2022, 10:30 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t think that’s it at all. It’s more likely his back issues.

It seems like mental errors more than just getting beat. He blocks the guy Cappa should have does not pass him off and take the outside guy. This is mostly stunts or delayed blitzers like safety or linebackers. If he gets beat because of injury ok but if it is because you are not blocking the right guy, then that is just not putting in the time to learn who you should block and pass off players when outside pressure comes.

I said in another post that I like Collins was hoping for a road grader to clear the way for running backs and be decent in pass blocking. When he gets locked onto a guy that's pass rushing, he does a great job just sometimes it is the wrong guy, and the outside guy gets to Joe. He is pretty good in run blocking he has shown flashes. He needs to consistently do a good job the start of this year everyone thought he would be the best lineman he is the worst at this point.

[Joelist]

2 sacks were surrendered. One was 100% on Burrow for just standing there for six seconds holding the ball. The other was an overload that because of the empty backfield was impossible to avoid. That's the risk of empty backfield sets - they are VERY vulnerable to delay blitzes and overloads.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-20-2022, 02:30 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: It seems like mental errors more than just getting beat. He blocks the guy Cappa should have does not pass him off and take the outside guy. This is mostly stunts or delayed blitzers like safety or linebackers. If he gets beat because of injury ok but if it is because you are not blocking the right guy, then that is just not putting in the time to learn who you should block and pass off players when outside pressure comes.

I said in another post that I like Collins was hoping for a road grader to clear the way for running backs and be decent in pass blocking. When he gets locked onto a guy that's pass rushing, he does a great job just sometimes it is the wrong guy, and the outside guy gets to Joe. He is pretty good in run blocking he has shown flashes. He needs to consistently do a good job the start of this year everyone thought he would be the best lineman he is the worst at this point.

This is a physical issue, not mental.

He's still a solid run blocker. Still powerful. He just can't move laterally. I thought it was getting better. It's not. pic.twitter.com/we7gxFX3R7

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 19, 2022

And this is what the vast majority of the plays where he ends up on the ground look like.

[WVUHomer]

(12-20-2022, 01:26 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You are not reading that right on our cap space. 

Yeah, we have $50 million, with 37 guys signed. You need to project 11 more guys into the cap before you even get to Bell, Pratt, Hurst, Apple, & Perine. Plus draft picks. Plus Practice squad. Plus you know we cannot use all the room at the start, there has to be some cushion for signings & guys getting hurt in-season. 

I've done the math, and even with VERY low estimates on re-signing other guys, I come up with around $29 mil with Bates, Pratt, Bell, Hurst, Apple, & Perine out there (assuming we don't cut a big ticket guy). And you know we are gonna want AT LEAST $5 mil in cushion. We usually operate at around $8-$10. So think more like $19-$24 mil or so. Though we could restructure some guys or move on from a higher priced player ot two. 

Big $$ FA's are extremely unlikely in my view. Retaining our guys and rookies and maybe a discounted vet chasing a ring. 

100% agree. Just pointed it out based on the information I saw. And also was just using that as a way to point out there's limited targets even if we wanted to spend the money.

[BengalsBong]

(12-20-2022, 07:17 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is a physical issue, not mental.

He's still a solid run blocker. Still powerful. He just can't move laterally. I thought it was getting better. It's not. pic.twitter.com/we7gxFX3R7

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 19, 2022

And this is what the vast majority of the plays where he ends up on the ground look like.

That was an effort and technique issue his kick step was 6 inches at best.

[Frank Booth]

(12-20-2022, 01:36 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: That was an effort and technique issue his kick step was 6 inches at best.

I've seen him miss a bunch of pick ups this year

it's a physical and mental issue. I think the mental issues were always there with LC though. But he had great strength and athleticism to fall back on.

that athleticism is practically gone now

[BengalsBong]

(12-20-2022, 01:48 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I've seen him miss a bunch of pick ups this year

it's a physical and mental issue. I think the mental issues were always there with LC though. But he had great strength and athleticism to fall back on.

that athleticism is practically gone now

Watch how fast his feet move and how wide the strides are trying to catch up to the guy after he knows he is beat. If it was an injury, he could not do that put more effort with the kick step and move your feet and he would not get beat. It is basically effort and want to.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-20-2022, 07:17 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is a physical issue, not mental.

He's still a solid run blocker. Still powerful. He just can't move laterally. I thought it was getting better. It's not. pic.twitter.com/we7gxFX3R7

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 19, 2022

And this is what the vast majority of the plays where he ends up on the ground look like.

I agree that it is a physical issue.  You can tell when he picks up that Right foot to make his kick step, he kind of jerks as the hip isn't moving the rest of the leg out like he wanted it to.  Then, he's beat and trying to play catch-up.

[Frank Booth]

(12-20-2022, 02:14 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Watch how fast his feet move and how wide the strides are trying to catch up to the guy after he knows he is beat. If it was an injury, he could not do that put more effort with the kick step and move your feet and he would not get beat. It is basically effort and want to.

nah, his lateral movement is shot. He's better suited at guard at this point in his career

[*ochocincos*]

(12-20-2022, 01:26 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You are not reading that right on our cap space. 

Yeah, we have $50 million, with 37 guys signed. You need to project 11 more guys into the cap before you even get to Bell, Pratt, Hurst, Apple, & Perine. Plus draft picks. Plus Practice squad. Plus you know we cannot use all the room at the start, there has to be some cushion for signings & guys getting hurt in-season. 

I've done the math, and even with VERY low estimates on re-signing other guys, I come up with around $29 mil with Bates, Pratt, Bell, Hurst, Apple, & Perine out there (assuming we don't cut a big ticket guy). And you know we are gonna want AT LEAST $5 mil in cushion. We usually operate at around $8-$10. So think more like $19-$24 mil or so. Though we could restructure some guys or move on from a higher priced player ot two. 

Big $$ FA's are extremely unlikely in my view. Retaining our guys and rookies and maybe a discounted vet chasing a ring. 

I didn't think the Practice Squad counted toward the cap?
I thought it was just the Top 51 salaries/cap hits counted.

[Earendil]

(12-20-2022, 02:31 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: nah, his lateral movement is shot. He's better suited at guard at this point in his career

That might be the back issue he's been fighting. He seems stiff in his lateral movements and I know, in my case, when my back is acting up I move like Frankenstein.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(12-20-2022, 02:33 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I didn't think the Practice Squad counted toward the cap?
I thought it was just the Top 51 salaries/cap hits counted.

I did not either, but if you look at this year's sheet, PS is included. So I guess your guess is as good as mine. But here is the relevant point: 

2022 Practice Squad
Cap breakdowns for players currently on a team's practice squad. All count against the team's salary cap.

And their breakdown:

2022 Cap Totals
CAP TYPE BASE SALARY SIGNING BONUS ROSTER BONUS OPTION BONUS WORKOUT BONUS RESTRUC. BONUS INCENTIVES CAP TOTAL
2022 NFL Salary Cap $208,200,000
2021 Rollover Cap $5,292,742
Adjustment $-1,292,742
Adjusted Salary Cap $212,200,000
All Contracts
$106,814,082 $45,392,892 $24,855,611 $2,675,000 $750,000 $250,000 $179,685,084
Injured Reserve Money $8,905,858 $2,241,832 $352,941 -$200,000- $11,700,631
Reserve/PUP Money $1,900,000 $562,500 - - $100,000 - - $2,562,500
Dead Money $4,955,332 $10,485,887 $50,000 - - - - $15,491,218
Practice Squad $2,576,300 - - - - - - $2,576,300
Total $125,151,572 $58,683,111 $25,258,552 $2,975,000 $750,000 $250,000 $212,015,733
Cap Space $184,267

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

Anyway, I took from that that PS was included. The reason it does not appear on the 2023 sheet yet is that there is no one signed to the 2023 PS yet. Though they certainly could include a spot for it. When there is, it will show up. It is not a ton, but $2.6-$3.5 mil, depending on the PS salary next year.

[BengalsBong]

(12-20-2022, 02:31 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: nah, his lateral movement is shot. He's better suited at guard at this point in his career

I agree he is best suited for guard until he is asked to pull. We do not have another tackle and he was brought here to play tackle, so Pollack and Zac need to get him giving full effort at tackle and/or get his technique right.

You can keep saying injury, but I do not agree it is lack of want to.

For you to say his lateral movement is shot after seeing a 6-inch drop step I point out in a video that is posted in this thread you are just ignoring the facts to push your narrative.

[Essex Johnson]

(12-19-2022, 02:52 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Jonah W.  had a good game but Collins although better than some prior Bengals in the past, is upgradable.  Flowers has found his niche with the team and does it very well.  I remember TE use to destroy Bengals, not any longer.  

He was rated top 5 tackle , no way we spend $$  on another tackle in FA, we will keep him and hope for improvement or look for a better oline coach to help the line

[KillerGoose]

(12-20-2022, 03:39 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I agree he is best suited for guard until he is asked to pull. We do not have another tackle and he was brought here to play tackle, so Pollack and Zac need to get him giving full effort at tackle and/or get his technique right.

You can keep saying injury, but I do not agree it is lack of want to.

For you to say his lateral movement is shot after seeing a 6-inch drop step I point out in a video that is posted in this thread you are just ignoring the facts to push your narrative.

I think that claiming lateral movement has been affected by a history of back injuries is much more believable than trying to play armchair psychologist and saying it is all just due to a "lack of want to". Occam's Razor and all. 

Who knows, maybe you're a savant and you're able to figure that out but I seriously doubt that.