Hubbard update

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-21-2022, 10:03 PM)TheFan Wrote: The way you stated the we shouldn't listen to Dr. Chao  going forward made it seem like it was just because Hursts said he felt good. That's how I interpreted it at least. 

I don't know much about Dr. Chao but he likely knows more then everyone here combined when it comes to football injuries. Just because he's not always 100% right doesn't mean he's always wrong. It's been reported by others Hubbard may not be back in the regular season and who knows if Hurst will play this week. 

Again, hopefully both are back soon and have no other problems. But seems a bit premature to disregard someone's opinion based on one tweet about someone feeling good running routes. 

It’s already been pointed out in this thread how often that doctor has been wrong when it comes to this stuff.

All I was doing with that Hurst tweet was countering Sled’s worst case scenario speculation of not seeing him the rest of the season. It sounds very likely we see him this week.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(12-21-2022, 08:09 PM)Housh Wrote: Why in the heck would you change ANYTHING on the o-line right now when they are doing so good?

That’s a no for me.

At this point it’d be kinda an asshole move to cut ANYONE that’s been here since camp. Huber is the exception because his ass knew Drue was taking his job this year.

I would hate to cut anyone that was here since camp just to sign a guy who will become obsolete when everyone is healthy. I would much rather just depend on our depth

And, just how many starts has Carmen or Scharping, or even offensive snaps for that matter had this year??  One of them is disposable. At this point in the season, loyalty means squat if your goal is to go deep in the playoffs. People remember AFC Championships and Super Bowls, not loyalty.  

If we were a 6-8 team then loyalty to a player would be a relevant point, but that's not the case here.  Call me an asshole, but assholes win Championships.  Do you think Belicheck would worry about being loyal and hurting someones feeling if his team was ready to go on a playoff run?  No, Belichick would cut one of them in a NY-second, show you his rings, and tell you where to stick them if you think he's an asshole.

We have a GLARING need at DE and two that may need to rest until the Baltimore game to win the AFC North. Sam could be finished, and Trey may not be 100% until week 2 of the playoffs (6 weeks from the time of injury.) Aside from Ossai, a situational pass rusher, our DEs are average at best.

Posted by bfine32 - 58 minutes ago

(2 hours ago)Housh Wrote: Wrote:Why in the heck would you change ANYTHING on the o-line right now when they are doing so good?

That’s a no for me.

At this point it’d be kinda an asshole move to cut ANYONE that’s been here since camp. Huber is the exception because his ass knew Drue was taking his job this year.

I would hate to cut anyone that was here since camp just to sign a guy who will become obsolete when everyone is healthy. I would much rather just depend on our depth

Bfine32 wrote:

Cutting Scharping changes nothing on the Oline.


Your loyalty is what many around here hate about Mike Brown. Personally. I have no problem making a move to help a current issue than not do it in case something happens. 

We currently have a situational Edge rusher and a 4th RD pick out of Tulane as our starting DEs. We have 7th RD pick to rotate with them

Bfine32, You speak like an actual person looking to win in the playoffs, who knows there are tough decisions to be made, and who recognizes that we have a glaring weakness at DE that needs to be addressed.  

[*bfine32*]

(12-21-2022, 10:03 PM)TheFan Wrote: The way you stated the we shouldn't listen to Dr. Chao  going forward made it seem like it was just because Hursts said he felt good. That's how I interpreted it at least. 

I don't know much about Dr. Chao but he likely knows more then everyone here combined when it comes to football injuries. Just because he's not always 100% right doesn't mean he's always wrong. It's been reported by others Hubbard may not be back in the regular season and who knows if Hurst will play this week. 

Again, hopefully both are back soon and have no other problems. But seems a bit premature to disregard someone's opinion based on one tweet about someone feeling good running routes. 

Surely you're not suggesting a world-renowned, Havard-educated Orthopedic Surgeon who has been practicing for over 30 years and has patents on orthopedic surgical procedures knows more about these things than our message board.

[TheFan]

(12-21-2022, 10:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s already been pointed out in this thread how often that doctor has been wrong when it comes to this stuff.

All I was doing with that Hurst tweet was countering Sled’s worst case scenario speculation of not seeing him the rest of the season. It sounds very likely we see him this week.

I'm not saying he's not a greedy narcissistic sleaze bag. But most of those have nothing to do with his treatment or diagnosis of football injuries, in the context of doing it for 15 or whatever years and how many injuries there are. I agree he's likely not gone for the season but Hilton also said he was going to play last week and didn't. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-19-2022, 11:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I can assure you he’s not.

He most definitely is. Round is a shape you know. 

[SladeX]

(12-21-2022, 10:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Surely you're not suggesting a world-renowned, Havard-educated Orthopedic Surgeon who has been practicing for over 30 years and has patents on orthopedic surgical procedures knows more about these things than our message board.

I’m not falling to my knees before a shrine I’ve created for him, either. Doctors can be (and I hate to shatter your world here) wrong! This guy has a recent track record of being very incorrect, if I’m reading previous posts correctly. 
Perhaps it’s because he’s not the doctor on these particular cases with access to their case details? Or maybe he’s competent, brilliant even, but a bit of a blowhard. Either way he(and other experts) are speculating, and we can be forgiven for having a bit of skepticism in these cases.
Now when the player’s own doctor speaks, I’ll put more weight on their pronouncements. In any event, I reserve the right to question any professional, no matter how distinguished they are. I have a good brain, and I intend to use it!

[Housh]

I just don’t think a free agent guy is gonna mean shit compared to the guys we already have. Then you’d have to cut a guy who’s been here since camp or mid season of Sharping is your choice which he wouldn’t be my choice. If anyone gets hurt Sharping is probably my 1st lineman off the bench

[*bfine32*]

(12-22-2022, 10:12 AM)SladeX Wrote: I’m not falling to my knees before a shrine I’ve created for him, either. Doctors can be (and I hate to shatter your world here) wrong! This guy has a recent track record of being very incorrect, if I’m reading previous posts correctly. 
Perhaps it’s because he’s not the doctor on these particular cases with access to their case details? Or maybe he’s competent, brilliant even, but a bit of a blowhard. Either way he(and other experts) are speculating, and we can be forgiven for having a bit of skepticism in these cases.
Now when the player’s own doctor speaks, I’ll put more weight on their pronouncements. In any event, I reserve the right to question any professional, no matter how distinguished they are. I have a good brain, and I intend to use it!

As to his recent track record. I remember the player, the media, and folks around here saying Ja'Mar would be back for the Titan's game. When Dr Chao was asked he said he'd never seen anyone go from crutches to on the field in 1 week. Ja'Mar didn't play in the Titan's game.

No one knows any better than I that Dr's are not 100% on their diagnosis. But my good brain tells me they know more than I and my good brain further tells me Dt Chao knows more about orthopedics than anyone on this forum. He does not fall into the "doesn't know shit" category just because he questions the return of one of our players. 

As I said before sometimes players have to sit in spite of themselves and I hope the team is taking counsel for those at least close to Dr. Chao's expertise and not listening to the player and The Bengals Message Board. 

[Daddy-O]

(12-21-2022, 10:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s already been pointed out in this thread how often that doctor has been wrong when it comes to this stuff.

All I was doing with that Hurst tweet was countering Sled’s worst case scenario speculation of not seeing him the rest of the season. It sounds very likely we see him this week.

"feeling confident running routes" and playing in a game are totally different.  Personally I hope he takes another week to get ready for Buffalo.  It'd be terrible to reaggravate the injury and end up missing the rest of the season.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-22-2022, 10:12 AM)SladeX Wrote: I’m not falling to my knees before a shrine I’ve created for him, either. Doctors can be (and I hate to shatter your world here) wrong! This guy has a recent track record of being very incorrect, if I’m reading previous posts correctly. 
Perhaps it’s because he’s not the doctor on these particular cases with access to their case details? Or maybe he’s competent, brilliant even, but a bit of a blowhard. Either way he(and other experts) are speculating, and we can be forgiven for having a bit of skepticism in these cases.
Now when the player’s own doctor speaks, I’ll put more weight on their pronouncements. In any event, I reserve the right to question any professional, no matter how distinguished they are. I have a good brain, and I intend to use it!

It's not necessarily being wrong that is the issue here for me, it's the fact that he has botched surgeries in seemingly inconceivable ways (HTF do you sever an artery that has nothing to do with the actual surgery?!) and his credibility as a human is shitty.

He undoubtedly knows more than any non-medical professional on the planet, but just because he was an NFL doc, doesn't mean he's NOT at the lowest of the list of NFL docs.

And if he was as trustworthy and skilled as other orthopedic surgeons, he would still be employed by an NFL team: that's the most damning thing of all.

[Daddy-O]

(12-22-2022, 10:33 AM)Housh Wrote: I just don’t think a free agent guy is gonna mean shit compared to the guys we already have. Then you’d have to cut a guy who’s been here since camp or mid season of Sharping is your choice which he wouldn’t be my choice. If anyone gets hurt Sharping is probably my 1st lineman off the bench

Agree.  A good player off the street may very well be a below average player if pressed into service quickly on a team where they are not familiar with the schemes.  

If you're not putting Hubbard on IR it's probably best to roll with what you got.  These back-ups made the team for a reason, now they need to step up and show why.

[Sled21]

(12-22-2022, 10:43 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: It's not necessarily being wrong that is the issue here for me, it's the fact that he has botched surgeries in seemingly inconceivable ways (HTF do you sever an artery that has nothing to do with the actual surgery?!) and his credibility as a human is shitty.

He undoubtedly knows more than any non-medical professional on the planet, but just because he was an NFL doc, doesn't mean he's NOT at the lowest of the list of NFL docs.

And if he was as trustworthy and skilled as other orthopedic surgeons, he would still be employed by an NFL team: that's the most damning thing of all.

To the bolded, maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. I'm sure his surgery schedule has something to do with his other activities. Working for the NFL may have been costing him money. Who knows. Look, this has gone off the rails. Someone asked about calf injuries. I posted what Chao said about calf injuries, which is they tend to last longer and reoccur more often than hamstrings. That's all he said. "I" made the assertion that with only 3 games left, we may not see Hubbard or Hurst back because I know how long some hamstring injuries last. It's just a guess, made by me not him. I mean, Waynes had a hamstring keep him out an entire season. Most people who get them miss several games, so if a calf is worse, it's not unthinkable neither would be back this season. Of course, Hurst is several weeks in front of Hubbard timewise, and we all hope both are back very quickly. This was not intended to be a "Dr. Chao is the end all be all" type thread, I just offered his explanation of what these injuries entail. If no one wants to listen to the guy, then don't, it's not a big deal.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(12-22-2022, 10:33 AM)Housh Wrote: I just don’t think a free agent guy is gonna mean shit compared to the guys we already have. Then you’d have to cut a guy who’s been here since camp or mid season of Sharping is your choice which he wouldn’t be my choice. If anyone gets hurt Sharping is probably my 1st lineman off the bench

We said Scharping or Carmen, not both, we only need to keep just one.  Yes, Terell Lewis would absolutely help with the DE depth at 6'5 275 and he's been active on the LA Rams roster so it's not like he'd be coming in outta shape.  Trey and Sam could be finished until the playoffs.  

Ossai is a situational pass rusher, and Lewis would be better than the rest #4-6.  Lewis was the #3 on the Rams' depth chart in a 3-4 scheme.  The Rams' season is finished in 3-games, and he was cut only to allow more snaps for the guys ahead of him.  So yes, he would immediately contribute.   

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-21-2022, 07:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Bengals TE Hayden Hurst said he gained a lot of confidence in his calf running routes in practice. He’s prepping to play Sunday.

— Charlie Goldsmith (@CharlieG__) December 21, 2022

Dr Chao’s opinions should probably be taken with a boulder of salt going forward. Just sayin.

Look at it like you would an IT guy. 
Tells you it's gonna take a couple hours to fix a problem, but they done after 15 minutes. 

Always take the safe route. If done faster, then "I've seen this before and knew how to fix it."   

in our case, "F0ast healer", "wasn't as bad as we thought" etc. 

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(12-22-2022, 10:43 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: Agree.  A good player off the street may very well be a below average player if pressed into service quickly on a team where they are not familiar with the schemes.  

If you're not putting Hubbard on IR it's probably best to roll with what you got.  These back-ups made the team for a reason, now they need to step up and show why.

DE Terrell Lewis wouldn't be a "Guy off the street."  He was #3 on the LA Rams' depth chart and just was released earlier this week to allow more snaps for the #2 DEs ahead of him in a 3-4 scheme.  So he's in shape and could be plugged in immediately.  At 6'5 275-lbs he'd also be #3 on our depth chart.  Think about it, Ossai is a situational pass rusher.  Sample out of Tulane will fill in for Sam, and Gunter hasn't made any progress this year. 

[*bfine32*]

hhhmmmmm....

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bengals-tight-end-hayden-hurst-ruled-out-for-patriots-game

Bengals Tight End Hayden Hurst Ruled Out For Patriots Game

[samhain]

(12-23-2022, 03:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: hhhmmmmm....

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bengals-tight-end-hayden-hurst-ruled-out-for-patriots-game

Bengals Tight End Hayden Hurst Ruled Out For Patriots Game

Smart move IMO.  You don't need to rush him back when you have Chase, Boyd, Tee, and Wilcox, who's actually done a nice job filling in.  Another week rest is better for him and better for the team.

[wanga]

(12-21-2022, 10:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Surely you're not suggesting a world-renowned, Havard-educated Orthopedic Surgeon who has been practicing for over 30 years and has patents on orthopedic surgical procedures knows more about these things than our message board.

Unpossible. 

[wanga]

Tricky injuries. Called the ‘old man’s injury’ in a lot of sports over here and take a long time to clear up even minor nicks. We need him so hopefully he’s back this season asap.

[*psychdoctor*]

(12-21-2022, 10:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Surely you're not suggesting a world-renowned, Havard-educated Orthopedic Surgeon who has been practicing for over 30 years and has patents on orthopedic surgical procedures knows more about these things than our message board.

Don't call him surely...