What if?

[Daddy-O]

What if this horrible situation would have happened during the playoffs? You can't move forward without a winner and loser. For this reason I truly believe the game should be resumed as this late in the year the precedent is the same.

Granted the regular season is different but with the outcome so impactful to multiple teams it's the right thing to do. If they don't the end the game the result of what eventually happens will likely always be an * associated to the AFC representative.

[Bengalpool]

(01-04-2023, 10:53 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: What if this horrible situation would have happened during the playoffs? You can't move forward without a winner and loser. For this reason I truly believe the game should be resumed as this late in the year the precedent is the same.
Granted the regular season is different but with the outcome so impactful to multiple teams it's the right thing to do. If they don't the end the game the result of what eventually happens will likely always be an * associated to the AFC representative.


I just brought this up in another thread. When is the game "too important" to say its a "no contest"? When MILLIONS are on the line? $$$ Let's not sit here and Tickle each other's ears.. They would resume a playoff game or super bowl lol

[XenoMorph]

(01-04-2023, 10:53 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: What if this horrible situation would have happened during the playoffs?  You can't move forward without a winner and loser.  For this reason I truly believe the game should be resumed as this late in the year the precedent is the same.

Granted the regular season is different but with the outcome so impactful to multiple teams it's the right thing to do.  If they don't the end the game the result of what eventually happens will likely always be an * associated to the AFC representative.

this only impacts seeding no ones playoff chances (of making playoffs) will change.   While seeding is important to the cities for $$$  not so much for the overall picture of getting to the playoffs.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

The problem here is that the NFL simply didn't have something set in stone to deal with a situation like it. Obviously guys getting CPR on the field doesn't happen often, but really with the Christian Eriksen story, there was quite recent precedent for the NFL to think 'what would we do if this happened?'. I know there's probably rules in the rulebook, but I doubt they've sat down with the teams and literally said 'right, in the case that a guy has a cardiac arrest and the players are not in a fit state of mind to carry on, we need to have x/y/z happen by (insert timeline here)'.

This isn't the same as a broken leg, torn ACL, or a natural disaster moving the game. It is a really unique and rare scenario, but there is enough precedent in my mind for the NFL to really have sorted out how they'd react to this sort of thing, before now. As I say, the Eriksen heart attack was a global news story, a really big thing in football/soccer, so the NFL should have taken the time at that point to reflect on what they would do imo.

Maybe they did, im not sure, but I believe the main reason for inaction here is that there is no prior agreement with the teams as to what they would be happy to have happen. So waltzing in with 'the Bills should forfeit' or 'it's a tie' or 'sorry but Bengals win as it was 7-3', while Hamlin's status is still unknown is difficult for the NFL to do unless all the teams had discussed this scenario before.

tl;dr - Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is just the result of a really tragic and rare scenario, where there maybe wasn't enough contingency planning for. I don't 'blame' the NFL for that per se, but I do think the Eriksen cardiac arrest should've prompted them to think about this before now.

Just on a slight tangent, in terms of people talking about asterixes to be added to the team names... does anyone think the Bucs win during the covid season should have one? I personally don't associate that season as having that note against it, but maybe I'm in the minority. I know teams played the slate, but it was clearly such an affected season. I don't associate that year as 'not a real win' or the records as 'not real ones'.

I'm just saying that even if we were given the win here, and go on to win the Super Bowl, there's no reason for anyone to shoot that achievement down. Same for whoever comes out of the AFC.

[Mickeypoo]

They should have finished the game. Super unpopular opinion for sure, but it's what I think should have happened.

Delay the game, find out situation. He was at hospital and alive. Suck it up and finish game.

[Daddy-O]

(01-04-2023, 11:19 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: this only impacts seeding no ones playoff chances (of making playoffs) will change.   While seeding is important to the cities for $$$  not so much for the overall picture of getting to the playoffs.

Totally disagree.  Playing Buffalo in Orchard Park vs. in Cincinnati is vitally important to the overall playoff picture.  Maybe not getting to the playoffs but advancing in the playoffs.

[SladeX]

(01-04-2023, 11:37 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: They should have finished the game.  Super unpopular opinion for sure, but it's what I think should have happened.

Delay the game, find out situation.  He was at hospital and alive.  Suck it up and finish game.

I mentioned this in another thread, but if we hit a car or person with the train, we can take 3 days off. I know from personal experience that when you think someone is dead, or HAVE THOUGHT IT during the incident it has a negative impact on your ability to do your job moving forward. I didn’t realize in the moment how much of an impact it had on me when I (mistakenly) thought kids in a car we hit were dead. Even though it turned out ok, the rollercoaster had taken its toll. It wasn’t until I got back to normal after a couple of days that I realized how dazed I was by the incident.

Think about this. If Hamlin had never got up in the first place, would the game have continued? At that point we all would have thought initially “he’s knocked out”, then learned he needed to be resuscitated. Did the shock of seeing him get up and then fall have a great impact?   Of course it did…

[Daddy-O]

(01-04-2023, 11:32 AM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: The problem here is that the NFL simply didn't have something set in stone to deal with a situation like it. Obviously guys getting CPR on the field doesn't happen often, but really with the Christian Eriksen story, there was quite recent precedent for the NFL to think 'what would we do if this happened?'. I know there's probably rules in the rulebook, but I doubt they've sat down with the teams and literally said 'right, in the case that a guy has a cardiac arrest and the players are not in a fit state of mind to carry on, we need to have x/y/z happen by (insert timeline here)'.

This isn't the same as a broken leg, torn ACL, or a natural disaster moving the game. It is a really unique and rare scenario, but there is enough precedent in my mind for the NFL to really have sorted out how they'd react to this sort of thing, before now. As I say, the Eriksen heart attack was a global news story, a really big thing in football/soccer, so the NFL should have taken the time at that point to reflect on what they would do imo.

Maybe they did, im not sure, but I believe the main reason for inaction here is that there is no prior agreement with the teams as to what they would be happy to have happen. So waltzing in with 'the Bills should forfeit' or 'it's a tie' or 'sorry but Bengals win as it was 7-3', while Hamlin's status is still unknown is difficult for the NFL to do unless all the teams had discussed this scenario before.

tl;dr - Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is just the result of a really tragic and rare scenario, where there maybe wasn't enough contingency planning for. I don't 'blame' the NFL for that per se, but I do think the Eriksen cardiac arrest should've prompted them to think about this before now.

Just on a slight tangent, in terms of people talking about asterixes to be added to the team names... does anyone think the Bucs win during the covid season should have one? I personally don't associate that season as having that note against it, but maybe I'm in the minority. I know teams played the slate, but it was clearly such an affected season. I don't associate that year as 'not a real win' or the records as 'not real ones'.

I'm just saying that even if we were given the win here, and go on to win the Super Bowl, there's no reason for anyone to shoot that achievement down. Same for whoever comes out of the AFC.

Not sure I understand the correlation to the Buc's Super Bowl run unless I'm missing something.  Were there games during that season that resulted in a No Contest / cancelled which affected the playoff seeding giving the Buc's a competitive advantage?  That's why teams are seeded as such and playoff home games determined based on their collective accomplishments over the course of an entire football year.

[Bengalstripes9]

(01-04-2023, 12:05 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Totally disagree.  Playing Buffalo in Orchard Park vs. in Cincinnati is vitally important to the overall playoff picture.  Maybe not getting to the playoffs but advancing in the playoffs.

I agree. 

The winner would get homefield in round 2 when the Bills/Bengals play again. That's a big advantage.

Such a Bengal-luck way to lose out on a home playoff game. 

And obviously a traumatic event that I'll admit made me think about my motives for watching such a violent sport.

[Rubekahn29]

(01-04-2023, 12:07 PM)SladeX Wrote: I mentioned this in another thread, but if we hit a car or person with the train, we can take 3 days off. I know from personal experience that when you think someone is dead, or HAVE THOUGHT IT during the incident it has a negative impact on your ability to do your job moving forward. I didn’t realize in the moment how much of an impact it had on me when I (mistakenly) thought kids in a car we hit were dead. Even though it turned out ok, the rollercoaster had taken its toll. It wasn’t until I got back to normal after a couple of days that I realized how dazed I was by the incident.

Think about this. If Hamlin had never got up in the first place, would the game have continued? At that point we all would have thought initially “he’s knocked out”, then learned he needed to be resuscitated. Did the shock of seeing him get up and then fall have a great impact?   Of course it did…

I get the sentiment, but if your co-worker did this, you would not get to take time off work (your own PTO excluded).

If I’m at work (I work in Dialysis) if a coworker had to be taken to the hospital and possibly died, I would still have to continue to work.

Now did and CAN stop, to which I 100% agree with, but to act as if it’s unfathomable for people to keep working after a trauma at work is disingenuous because MANY employers would tell their employees to get work after it.

[Big Boss]

(01-04-2023, 11:37 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: They should have finished the game.  Super unpopular opinion for sure, but it's what I think should have happened.

Delay the game, find out situation.  He was at hospital and alive.  Suck it up and finish game.

Nobody inside that stadium (players, coaches and fans alike) looked like they had it in them for a game to take place.  

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(01-04-2023, 12:11 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Not sure I understand the correlation to the Buc's Super Bowl run unless I'm missing something.  Were there games during that season that resulted in a No Contest / cancelled which affected the playoff seeding giving the Buc's a competitive advantage?  That's why teams are seeded as such and playoff home games determined based on their collective accomplishments over the course of an entire football year.

I'm referencing it as it was the Covid season. So you have games being rescheduled all over the place, players not playing, testing positive etc... so clearly you'd have had lots of games affected by 'non-normal' circumstances. This will have in turn resulted in competitive advantages of their own. I'm not sure how much this affected the Bucs schedule/roster specifically, but I don't look back at that season and think of it as less of a Super Bowl crown for them. I know it's not apples to apples in comparison to this scenario.

[Rubekahn29]

(01-04-2023, 12:17 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Nobody inside that stadium (players, coaches and fans alike) looked like they had it in them for a game to take place.  

I do agree with that, and I think you would have seen more injuries due to an understandable lack of focus

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(01-04-2023, 12:19 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I do agree with that, and I think you would have seen more injuries due to an understandable lack of focus

I think you'd have seen an incredibly low-paced game, with guys not willing to go hard on tackles or running. Everything done at half-pace, half-power etc. Might also have seen incredibly basic playcalling, no blitzing etc.

It wouldn't have had much comparison to an NFL game. At which point you'd have to question whether it's a much better resolution than flipping a coin, even ignoring whether you think it was an appropriate thing to do.

[GAWhoDey]

Having been in the stadium Monday night, I can tell you with 100% certainty that there was no more football being played by those players and coaches that night. It was clear that they were not going to do it regardless of what the league said.

[XenoMorph]

(01-04-2023, 12:05 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Totally disagree.  Playing Buffalo in Orchard Park vs. in Cincinnati is vitally important to the overall playoff picture.  Maybe not getting to the playoffs but advancing in the playoffs.

I said it affects seeding but not WHO makes the playoffs.  Seeding is important but whos in is even bigger.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-04-2023, 10:53 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: What if this horrible situation would have happened during the playoffs?  You can't move forward without a winner and loser.  For this reason I truly believe the game should be resumed as this late in the year the precedent is the same.

Granted the regular season is different but with the outcome so impactful to multiple teams it's the right thing to do.  If they don't the end the game the result of what eventually happens will likely always be an * associated to the AFC representative.

Well your what if is for playoffs and moving on in the playoffs, the problem attaching it our game is the outcome had ZERO impact on what teams make the playoffs so they have an opportunity to move on.. that is a huge difference than your what if with playoffs and why this game probably won;t be completed

[Essex Johnson]

(01-04-2023, 12:32 PM)GAWhoDey Wrote: Having been in the stadium Monday night, I can tell you with 100% certainty that there was no more football being played by those players and coaches that night.  It was clear that they were not going to do it regardless of what the league said.

and it as great to see the NFL was in lock step, they had no intentions to continue that game once the gravity of the injury was known.. just took time to get all the procedures and communication out. 

[Daddy-O]

(01-04-2023, 12:18 PM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: I'm referencing it as it was the Covid season. So you have games being rescheduled all over the place, players not playing, testing positive etc... so clearly you'd have had lots of games affected by 'non-normal' circumstances. This will have in turn resulted in competitive advantages of their own. I'm not sure how much this affected the Bucs schedule/roster specifically, but I don't look back at that season and think of it as less of a Super Bowl crown for them. I know it's not apples to apples in comparison to this scenario.

Definitely a unique scenario.

I also think the fact that it's the NFL and there is history of violent discussion (concussions, etc.) changes the narrative.  Sadly, I think like 10 people of died in professional soccer due to similar situations and the show goes on.  Not that it's the right thing to do but the NFL is looked upon differently.

There is no way that game should have been completed Monday night, but I do believe it should be resumed prior to the actual playoffs due to all of the impacts.

[SladeX]

(01-04-2023, 12:16 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I get the sentiment, but if your co-worker did this, you would not get to take time off work (your own PTO excluded).

If I’m at work (I work in Dialysis) if a coworker had to be taken to the hospital and possibly died, I would still have to continue to work.

Now did and CAN stop, to which I 100% agree with, but to act as if it’s unfathomable for people to keep working after a trauma at work is disingenuous because MANY employers would tell their employees to get work after it.

If it was my crew member I would. First of all the trip would be cancelled and I would go home. Another crew would get called. I might have to finish up (secure the train), but that would be it. As for OS time (critical incident), I’ve shot my union guy a text, haven’t heard back, but I would bet $100 we could.

NFL players need to be able to focus for their safety and the safety of the other players. They carry on 99.9% of the time. This was an extreme situation. I’m speaking from personal experience, where I thought we had killed some people. Blame doesn’t enter into it, the fact that they pulled in front of us doesn’t matter. I highly doubt Tee was in any shape to continue, but I don’t know because I don’t live in his head, either. Some people are able to compartmentalize in the moment. Some aren’t.

It’s not unfathomable to continue (did I say that?), but it’s not for the best. In military/life or death situations of course you go on, but guess what? Those situations can take an extreme toll. In an office setting (which i am also familiar with), or clinical setting I can see going on. I can also see a wise supervisor at least adking if you need to take day.