The League Taught Taylor and Other HiCs a Lesson Today.

[samhain]

With the disaster of a playoff seeding countermeasure that was approved today, it's my opinion that the league had a message to deliver.

I was at the game Monday. After the injury, both Buffalo and Cincinnati were warming up to resume play. This is indisputable. Joe Buck stated, in the MNF broadcast, that play would resume in 5 minutes per the league. Also indisputable.

Was this an accident? Did players just take it upon themselves to start getting ready to play with no instruction from on high? Was Buck just winging it and taking a stab at what he thought was most likely? 5 minutes is a specific amount of time, not an estimate. The situation was relatively unprecedented, so there's not much previous experience to base a guess on. Buck is one of my least favorite sports personalities, but I doubt he was just making shit up out of boredom.

The league wanted this game played after the injury, and they wanted it played on Monday night. I have zero doubt.

There is clear precedent for the NFL compelling teams to play after literal player deaths close to scheduled games.

Chris Henry died 4 days before the Bengals played San Diego. They flew to his funeral in Louisiana almost immediately after.

Jovan Belcher, a Chiefs linebacker suffering from neuropathic encephalitis, killed his girlfriend. He then drove to the team facility and shot himself in front of Romeo Crennel and Scott Pioli. This was on a Saturday before they were scheduled to play the Panthers. The league made them play and they did.

The issue here isn't that we are dealing with a kinder, gentler NFL. It's situational. Taylor and McDermott called the game. The league did not. The teams walked out, more or less, and the league couldn't do a thing about it on Monday. Buffalo left town. Taylor doubled down in support. The league backed off due to PR concerns.

Then we get to today. The Bengals run a small but very real risk of losing home playoff games. They lose the chance to control their own destiny. Out of all teams affected, the Bengals got the most impactful disadvantages as a result of the changes.

I believe this was a subtle way of letting Zac and other coaches know that insubordination will not be tolerated in the future. You can act on instinct and try to do the right thing, but it will have consequences to the team that you lead. When they say play, you play or you pay a price.

Zac Taylor got a lot of good publicity this week, but he also got his hand slapped by the competition committee.

I feel like what happened here was the league finding a way to strongly discourage coaches from going against orders in the future. The got their message across without being too harsh to the Bills, which would have caught a lot of flack. They picked the easiest target that was close to the situation and made a decision.

[Mickeypoo]

(01-06-2023, 06:48 PM)samhain Wrote: With the disaster of a playoff seeding countermeasure that was approved today, it's my opinion that the league had a message to deliver.  

I was at the game Monday.  After the injury, both Buffalo and Cincinnati were warming up to resume play.  This is indisputable.  Joe Buck stated, in the MNF broadcast, that play would resume in 5 minutes per the league.  Also indisputable.  

Was this an accident?  Did players just take it upon themselves to start getting ready to play with no instruction from on high?  Was Buck just winging it and taking a stab at what he thought was most likely?  5 minutes is a specific amount of time, not an estimate.  The situation was relatively unprecedented, so there's not much previous experience to base a guess on.  Buck is one of my least favorite sports personalities, but I doubt he was just making shit up out of boredom.

The league wanted this game played after the injury, and they wanted it played on Monday night.  I have zero doubt.

There is clear precedent for the NFL compelling teams to play after literal player deaths close to scheduled games.

Chris Henry died 4 days before the Bengals played San Diego. They flew to his funeral in Louisiana almost immediately after.  

Jovan Belcher, a Chiefs linebacker suffering from neuropathic encephalitis, killed his girlfriend.  He then drove to the team facility and shot himself in front of Romeo Crennel and Scott Pioli.  This was on a Saturday before they were scheduled to play the Panthers.  The league made them play and they did.

The issue here isn't that we are dealing with a kinder, gentler NFL.  It's situational.  Taylor and McDermott called the game.  The league did not.  The teams walked out, more or less, and the league couldn't do a thing about it on Monday.  Buffalo left town.  Taylor doubled down in support.  The league backed off due to PR concerns.

Then we get to today.  The Bengals run a small but very real risk of losing home playoff games.  They lose the chance to control their own destiny.  Out of all teams affected, the Bengals got the most impactful disadvantages as a result of the changes.  

I believe this was a subtle way of letting Zac and other coaches know that insubordination will not be tolerated in the future.  You can act on instinct and try to do the right thing, but it will have consequences to the team that you lead.  When they say play, you play or you pay a price.  

Zac Taylor got a lot of good publicity this week, but he also got his hand slapped by the competition committee.  

I feel like what happened here was the league finding a way to strongly discourage coaches from going against orders in the future.  The got their message across without being too harsh to the Bills, which would have caught a lot of flack.  They picked the easiest target that was close to the situation and made a decision.

I am sure this is correct.  It was obviously on purpose as even a room full of 5th graders could have done better.  Targeted and on purpose.  No other logical explanation.  I hope this comes back to bite the NFL, but who am I kidding.

[Soonerpeace]

I can certainly understand that thought process. But my inside info says no. It was unprecedented so frankly there was some chaos. Normally they do resume in 5 minutes but the officials and head coaches all deemed it better to go to their locker rooms. The NFL office then got in contact all parties agreed to cancel the game. There was never any pressure from the NFL to finish the game.

I don’t know how else they could have done it. I know forfeit was on the table But I’m not a buyer let’s punish the Bengals for not playing the game. Do I think all the other teams that would be involved in all the scenarios are more favored? Yes

[Mickeypoo]

(01-06-2023, 07:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I can certainly understand that thought process. But my inside info says no. It was unprecedented so frankly there was some chaos. Normally they do resume in 5 minutes but the officials and head coaches all deemed it better to go to their locker rooms. The NFL office then got in contact all parties agreed to cancel the game. There was never any pressure from the NFL to finish the game.

I don’t know how else they could have done it. I know forfeit was on the table  But I’m not a buyer let’s punish the Bengals for not playing the game. Do I think all the other teams that would be involved in all the scenarios are more favored? Yes

So you are saying a room full of 5th graders have more integrity and intelligence than the NFL?  Ya, that appears to be the case.

That coin flip crap with only the Ravens and Bengals is a dead giveaway.  That is so stupid and out there it is for sure on purpose.

[samhain]

(01-06-2023, 07:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I can certainly understand that thought process. But my inside info says no. It was unprecedented so frankly there was some chaos. Normally they do resume in 5 minutes but the officials and head coaches all deemed it better to go to their locker rooms. The NFL office then got in contact all parties agreed to cancel the game. There was never any pressure from the NFL to finish the game.

I don’t know how else they could have done it. I know forfeit was on the table  But I’m not a buyer let’s punish the Bengals for not playing the game. Do I think all the other teams that would be involved in all the scenarios are more favored? Yes

Oh, I don't think they were forceful or threatening about it.  I do, however, believe that playing on Monday was the league's desired outcome.  There's no way they had the balls to push it with any weight.  They aren't that dumb.

I absolutely do believe that the seeding agreement is a veiled way of discouraging teams from doing what the Bengals and Bills did at some point in the future.  

It's like a place I used to work.  The roads would ice over once or twice a year.  Lots of businesses would cancel work for inclement weather, my employer, almost without exception would not.  One winter, we had a big storm.  People got snowed in overnight at work.  Then we had another event.  This time was different.  Work was not called off, but about 30 percent of the workers stayed home.  They couldn't staff the place to run with a skeleton crew.  Work was called off.  The company said it was in the interest of worker safety.  What actually happened was a major change.  Workers forced it.  From that point on, they would call off production in inclement weather for extreme circumstances, knowing that people would just stay home.

This is what happened Monday.  It was the start of a new era in the league where players and coaches could seemingly not play if enough of them decided they wouldn't.  The league won't give in as the employer did in my example, but they will enact countermeasures.  Our seeding is the first countermeasure.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-06-2023, 07:22 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: So you are saying a room full of 5th graders have more integrity and intelligence than the NFL?  Ya, that appears to be the case.

That coin flip crap with only the Ravens and Bengals is a dead giveaway.  That is so stupid and out there it is for sure on purpose.

What should they have done?

[mahomey15]

(01-06-2023, 06:48 PM)samhain Wrote: Jovan Belcher, a Chiefs linebacker suffering from neuropathic encephalitis, killed his girlfriend.  He then drove to the team facility and shot himself in front of Romeo Crennel and Scott Pioli.  This was on a Saturday before they were scheduled to play the Panthers.  The league made them play and they did.

The issue here isn't that we are dealing with a kinder, gentler NFL.  It's situational.  Taylor and McDermott called the game.  The league did not.  The teams walked out, more or less, and the league couldn't do a thing about it on Monday.  Buffalo left town.  Taylor doubled down in support.  The league backed off due to PR concerns.

Then we get to today.  The Bengals run a small but very real risk of losing home playoff games.  They lose the chance to control their own destiny.  Out of all teams affected, the Bengals got the most impactful disadvantages as a result of the changes.  

I believe this was a subtle way of letting Zac and other coaches know that insubordination will not be tolerated in the future.  You can act on instinct and try to do the right thing, but it will have consequences to the team that you lead.  When they say play, you play or you pay a price.  

Zac Taylor got a lot of good publicity this week, but he also got his hand slapped by the competition committee.  

I feel like what happened here was the league finding a way to strongly discourage coaches from going against orders in the future.  The got their message across without being too harsh to the Bills, which would have caught a lot of flack.  They picked the easiest target that was close to the situation and made a decision.

I remember that morning for the Chiefs. I was actually at that game. Brady Quinn started the next day at QB. Belcher asked Clark Hunt to please take care of his daughter before he did it.

I think you're onto something here. If you don't listen to the Shield and end up putting them in a place they don't want to be, you'll be punished harshly. And being harsh on the Bills would've been a PR nightmare.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-06-2023, 07:27 PM)samhain Wrote: Oh, I don't think they were forceful or threatening about it.  I do, however, believe that playing on Monday was the league's desired outcome.  There's no way they had the balls to push it with any weight.  They aren't that dumb.

I absolutely do believe that the seeding agreement is a veiled way of discouraging teams from doing what the Bengals and Bills did at some point in the future.  

It's like a place I used to work.  The roads would ice over once or twice a year.  Lots of businesses would cancel work for inclement weather, my employer, almost without exception would not.  One winter, we had a big storm.  People got snowed in overnight at work.  Then we had another event.  This time was different.  Work was not called off, but about 30 percent of the workers stayed home.  They couldn't staff the place to run with a skeleton crew.  Work was called off.  The company said it was in the interest of worker safety.  What actually happened was a major change.  Workers forced it.  From that point on, they would call off production in inclement weather for extreme circumstances, knowing that people would just stay home.

This is what happened Monday.  It was the start of a new era in the league where players and coaches could seemingly not play if enough of them decided they wouldn't.  The league won't give in as the employer did in my example, but they will enact countermeasures.  Our seeding is the first countermeasure.

And what would have been more equitable?

[Murdock2420]

(01-06-2023, 06:48 PM)samhain Wrote: There is clear precedent for the NFL compelling teams to play after literal player deaths close to scheduled games.

Chris Henry died 4 days before the Bengals played San Diego. They flew to his funeral in Louisiana almost immediately after.  

Jovan Belcher, a Chiefs linebacker suffering from neuropathic encephalitis, killed his girlfriend.  He then drove to the team facility and shot himself in front of Romeo Crennel and Scott Pioli.  This was on a Saturday before they were scheduled to play the Panthers.  The league made them play and they did.
 

Do you not see a difference here?

Guy was on the field in front of players. Sean McDermott told Zac he felt he needed to be at the hospital with his guy, and Zac seemed to agree. 

I don't know how many times this needs to be typed but this was not like anything prior. This was an ON-FIELD in game, guy was getting CPR performed on him. Lapham was on the air saying that he'd never seen this, every single person that was covering this game was saying how different this felt and how different this was.

Try this exercise out.

Let's take one of your siblings, a parent, someone you are close to and love and stop their heart in the middle of their normal life. You then have to watch as CPR is performed and they are carted away in an ambulance. Then you will be told nope, you may not go to the hospital you will go out and focus and do your job and you better do it to the highest level possible.

This is just insane around here over what, playoff seeding??? This team went to the Super Bowl last year after 1 home game, they've shown they can handle it. 

Yet for some reason, the fans here can't handle it.

[Anarumo_Savant]

Remember Adam Zimmer died before the Browns MNF game

[mahomey15]

(01-06-2023, 07:34 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Do you not see a difference here?

Guy was on the field in front of players. Sean McDermott told Zac he felt he needed to be at the hospital with his guy, and Zac seemed to agree. 

I don't know how many times this needs to be typed but this was not like anything prior. This was an ON-FIELD in game, guy was getting CPR performed on him.

Let me take one of your siblings, a parent, someone you are close to and love and stop their heart in the middle of their normal life. You then have to watch as CPR is performed and they are carted away in an ambulance. Then you will be told nope, you may not go to the hospital you will go out and focus and do your job and you better do it to the highest level possible.

This is just insane around here over what, playoff seeding??? This team went to the Super Bowl last year after 1 home game, they've shown they can handle it. 

Yet for some reason, the fans here can't handle it.

Dude, Jovan Belcher literally put a bullet through his head in front of Crennel, Gary Gibbs, Scott Pioli and Clark Hunt, and players started rolling into the stadium before EMTs even had a chance to cover stuff up.

It may not have been on the field, but you can't act like that it being on the field is the difference between players being able to play or not.

The only thing that it being On-Field impacts is that it was wider in the public eye in todays age of social media and 30 second clips than previously before, which just lends more to PR concerns.

And yea, people can be upset by the playoff seeding. Its natural that when you invest your time and energy into something you want to be treated fairly and equally regarding such.

[Mickeypoo]

(01-06-2023, 07:34 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Do you not see a difference here?

Guy was on the field in front of players. Sean McDermott told Zac he felt he needed to be at the hospital with his guy, and Zac seemed to agree. 

I don't know how many times this needs to be typed but this was not like anything prior. This was an ON-FIELD in game, guy was getting CPR performed on him. Lapham was on the air saying that he'd never seen this, every single person that was covering this game was saying how different this felt and how different this was.

Try this exercise out.

Let's take one of your siblings, a parent, someone you are close to and love and stop their heart in the middle of their normal life. You then have to watch as CPR is performed and they are carted away in an ambulance. Then you will be told nope, you may not go to the hospital you will go out and focus and do your job and you better do it to the highest level possible.

This is just insane around here over what, playoff seeding??? This team went to the Super Bowl last year after 1 home game, they've shown they can handle it. 

Yet for some reason, the fans here can't handle it.

So forfeit then if you can't suck it up and go play.  Be accountable.  I have no issue with people not being able to mentally handle it and not play, but that has consequences.  It should have been a reschedule or forfeit.  See how easy this could have been?

[samhain]

(01-06-2023, 07:34 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Do you not see a difference here?

Guy was on the field in front of players. Sean McDermott told Zac he felt he needed to be at the hospital with his guy, and Zac seemed to agree. 

I don't know how many times this needs to be typed but this was not like anything prior. This was an ON-FIELD in game, guy was getting CPR performed on him. Lapham was on the air saying that he'd never seen this, every single person that was covering this game was saying how different this felt and how different this was.

Try this exercise out.

Let's take one of your siblings, a parent, someone you are close to and love and stop their heart in the middle of their normal life. You then have to watch as CPR is performed and they are carted away in an ambulance. Then you will be told nope, you may not go to the hospital you will go out and focus and do your job and you better do it to the highest level possible.

This is just insane around here over what, playoff seeding??? This team went to the Super Bowl last year after 1 home game, they've shown they can handle it. 

Yet for some reason, the fans here can't handle it.

Playing on Monday isn't the issue, it's just what I firmly believe the league wanted.  

Not scheduling the game at all is.  No outcome in the league should be determined by a committee, in-season when rules are in place for cancelled games.  

Nothing insane about it.  Even less so considering the news on Hamlin is better than anyone expected.  There's zero reason that this game could not have been rescheduled.  The events I listed had finality to them and teams were not given a week or even a day in one case.  In one case, the guy killed himself in front of his coach, who had to coach the next day.  

[samhain]

(01-06-2023, 07:34 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And what would have been more equitable?

Rescheduling the game.  No forfeit, no rule change.  Determine outcomes with on field play.

[Mickeypoo]

(01-06-2023, 07:45 PM)samhain Wrote: Rescheduling the game.  No forfeit, no rule change.  Determine outcomes with on field play.

Easy peasy, fair, common sense.  The exact opposite of what is happening.  

[BigPapaKain]

(01-06-2023, 07:35 PM)Anarumo_Savant Wrote: Remember Adam Zimmer died before the Browns MNF game

Didn't Mike Zimmer have to coach the Bengals defense like 3 days after his wife died?

[BigPapaKain]

(01-06-2023, 07:45 PM)samhain Wrote: Rescheduling the game.  No forfeit, no rule change.  Determine outcomes with on field play.

Hell, use their advanced statistics. The Bengals had a 57% chance of winning. I've got a d100 the NFL could borrow. 1 roll. 57 or less, Bengals get the W. 58 or higher, Bills get the W.

No changes in games played, everyone knows what they're playing for, no ridiculous bending over backwards for or against any organizations.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-06-2023, 07:45 PM)samhain Wrote: Rescheduling the game.  No forfeit, no rule change.  Determine outcomes with on field play.

Moving everything would have been a nightmare. If KC wins I’d have simply had a Buffalo/Cincy coin flip for home field if they played. Nobody else matters. We should not have to flip with the Ravens for any reason

[Soonerpeace]

(01-06-2023, 07:27 PM)samhain Wrote: Oh, I don't think they were forceful or threatening about it.  I do, however, believe that playing on Monday was the league's desired outcome.  There's no way they had the balls to push it with any weight.  They aren't that dumb.

I absolutely do believe that the seeding agreement is a veiled way of discouraging teams from doing what the Bengals and Bills did at some point in the future.  

It's like a place I used to work.  The roads would ice over once or twice a year.  Lots of businesses would cancel work for inclement weather, my employer, almost without exception would not.  One winter, we had a big storm.  People got snowed in overnight at work.  Then we had another event.  This time was different.  Work was not called off, but about 30 percent of the workers stayed home.  They couldn't staff the place to run with a skeleton crew.  Work was called off.  The company said it was in the interest of worker safety.  What actually happened was a major change.  Workers forced it.  From that point on, they would call off production in inclement weather for extreme circumstances, knowing that people would just stay home.

This is what happened Monday.  It was the start of a new era in the league where players and coaches could seemingly not play if enough of them decided they wouldn't.  The league won't give in as the employer did in my example, but they will enact countermeasures.  Our seeding is the first countermeasure.

And what would have been more equitable?

[casear2727]

(01-06-2023, 07:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I can certainly understand that thought process. But my inside info says no. It was unprecedented so frankly there was some chaos. Normally they do resume in 5 minutes but the officials and head coaches all deemed it better to go to their locker rooms. The NFL office then got in contact all parties agreed to cancel the game. There was never any pressure from the NFL to finish the game.

I don’t know how else they could have done it. I know forfeit was on the table  But I’m not a buyer let’s punish the Bengals for not playing the game. Do I think all the other teams that would be involved in all the scenarios are more favored? Yes

I have no idea who your inside source is, but as you know I have some inside the building and I can tell you that no one was happy today.