Mack Jones v Josh Dobbs fumbles

[bengals67]

They looked identical to me.

Can anyone explain difference?

Is it a coincidence that completely inconsistent calls went the way of home team?

Aren’t these being reviewed by same reply people at NFL HQ?

[Bronxbengal]

Yes…I thought the same thing and was going to post. Once again the Bengals get screwed. There is such a strong biased against the Bengals. It is US against the world!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CJD]

(01-08-2023, 09:50 AM)bengals67 Wrote: They looked identical to me.

Can anyone explain difference?

Is it a coincidence that completely inconsistent calls went the way of home team?

Aren’t these being reviewed by same reply people at NFL HQ?

I disagree that they look identical.

Dobbs' fumble looked WAY more like a pass than Jones' did.

Not only does the ball actually travel well past the line of scrimmage, he also possessed the ball until his arm was fully in the forward swing.

If that was a fumble, Jones' was DEFINITELY a fumble.

But we all the know it was just an attempt to keep the Patriots Bengals game interesting by the refs.

[Goalpost]

Since we won, I kind of put the Jones play out of mind. But if I recall, I thought Jones almost batted the ball forward when it was slowed down. His was more of a fumble.

[KillerGoose]

Well, I think the NFL got it wrong. I think both Dobbs and Jones plays were passes. If I were to try to argue it, I would say that the Dobbs play had a defender come from behind him so when he got hit, it's reasonable to believe the ball could have came forward whereas Jones was being pulled down and tossed the ball forward with his off hand without external assistance. However, watching this, it will be hard to convince me that this isn't a pass.

Was Josh Dobbs’ arm moving forward on this play? It was ruled a fumble. pic.twitter.com/xnLbIWzsmj

— NFL Unlimited (@NFLUnlimited) January 8, 2023

[NUGDUKWE]

Yeah I saw it live. I was curious to see the replay to compare it to the Mac Jones and yeah I thought it looked more like a pass than the one Mac did. I know there will always be problems with consistency. But what drives me crazy is the rules analyst was so quick to say it was a fumble and the overall review was very quick. That's the part that drives me crazy. They did let it play out so hopefully they do that more often.

[Bengalitis]

Dobbs pass was definitely a pass not a fumble. THe NFL wanted the Jags in the playoffs.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-08-2023, 09:50 AM)bengals67 Wrote: They looked identical to me.

Can anyone explain difference?

Is it a coincidence that completely inconsistent calls went the way of home team?

Aren’t these being reviewed by same reply people at NFL HQ?

Happens every game, different calls for the same scenario. It all comes down to who is reffing and how situationally aware they are. 

I wasn't surprised.

[sandwedge]

In both instances, to me neither QB really has control of the ball.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-08-2023, 11:08 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Well, I think the NFL got it wrong. I think both Dobbs and Jones plays were passes. If I were to try to argue it, I would say that the Dobbs play had a defender come from behind him so when he got hit, it's reasonable to believe the ball could have came forward whereas Jones was being pulled down and tossed the ball forward with his off hand without external assistance. However, watching this, it will be hard to convince me that this isn't a pass.

Was Josh Dobbs’ arm moving forward on this play? It was ruled a fumble. pic.twitter.com/xnLbIWzsmj

— NFL Unlimited (@NFLUnlimited) January 8, 2023

Just to get into the mechanical side of it...when i first saw the Dobbs replay, my first reaction was pass. When i first saw the Jones replay, my first reaction was fumble. 

Both plays had momentum where the ball could carry forward. In Dobbs case, it's a bit more sticky (mayyyyybe) because he rotates the ball late in his motion, so should it be seen strictly as arm moving forward or arm moving forward with the ball in a throwing position?

If a replay isn't able to conclusively determine that it was a pass or fumble because it happened around the precise moment it goes from fumble to pass, then any ref's eye can't tell the difference in real time, from a distance.

That's why they got it right in Jax, allowing the play to continue and letting replay fix it if it's wrong and they were wrong in NE because some ref was sure he saw the arm going forward...which there's no way in hell he could have done.

[Joelist]

Dobbs lost control before his arm starting going forward. Fumble. Jones was also fumble but incorrectly call incomplete.

[Mickeypoo]

(01-08-2023, 11:08 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Well, I think the NFL got it wrong. I think both Dobbs and Jones plays were passes. If I were to try to argue it, I would say that the Dobbs play had a defender come from behind him so when he got hit, it's reasonable to believe the ball could have came forward whereas Jones was being pulled down and tossed the ball forward with his off hand without external assistance. However, watching this, it will be hard to convince me that this isn't a pass.

Was Josh Dobbs’ arm moving forward on this play? It was ruled a fumble. pic.twitter.com/xnLbIWzsmj

— NFL Unlimited (@NFLUnlimited) January 8, 2023

Looks like a fumble to me.  Just my opinion.  I don't think there is any conspiracy here.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I thought they were both fumbles.

But the plays are not remotely the same. Dobbs is in the pocket being hit in the back in a normal throwing motion. The jolt if the hit lauches the ball & hit arm forward. But he loses control if the ball before his arm comes forward (to the degree it does come forward on its own).

Jones is getting sacked and trying to underhand it forward with his off hand to avoid a loss. He looses control of it in the attempt before it comes forward. In my view he should get LESS benefit of the doubt because his attempt is not a natural throwing motion AND is grounding.

The main differences are that in the Tennessee game, the refs got it right the first time AND did the correct thing in letting it play out. In our game, they got it wrong the first time AND screwed up by not letting the play continue. The first mistake changes the standard on review. Both were close, making an overrule less likely. The second mistake, IMHO, also makes an overrule LESS likely, because if it a fumble, then the 2nd mistake is a big deal. Whereas if it is a pass, then they have to admit they screwed up TWICE.

The human tendency is to want to be be right the first time and not look like a dope. In addition to the clear & obvious language of the rule, refs tend to look for a reason for the call to stand on replay, not a reason to overturn. Something to validate their initial decision. If if upon review they think they got it wrong, some fall back on the clear & obvious language to let it stand anyway. I see it in the NBA all the time. Once you throw a second mistake on the same play in the mix, they want to sweep that under the rug.

I do not think there was anti-Bengal bias here (that stuff is getting out of control), just human nature. I think replay decisions shouod be out of the hands of the on field officials. It would slow the game down, though.

[Destro]

Dobbs fumbled. Strange, considering he is an alien being masquerading as a human.

[EatonFan]

(01-08-2023, 11:13 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yeah I saw it live. I was curious to see the replay to compare it to the Mac Jones and yeah I thought it looked more like a pass than the one Mac did. I know there will always be problems with consistency. But what drives me crazy is the rules analyst was so quick to say it was a fumble and the overall review was very quick. That's the part that drives me crazy. They did let it play out so hopefully they do that more often.

See that's also a problem.  If you let every play go as if it's a fumble then that becomes the 'call on the field' and thus if it's inconclusive it becomes the call. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-08-2023, 01:57 PM)EatonFan Wrote: See that's also a problem.  If you let every play go as if it's a fumble then that becomes the 'call on the field' and thus if it's inconclusive it becomes the call. 

This might ultimately be the difference in the two plays. They just went with the call on the field. 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(01-08-2023, 01:57 PM)EatonFan Wrote: See that's also a problem.  If you let every play go as if it's a fumble then that becomes the 'call on the field' and thus if it's inconclusive it becomes the call. 

True, but the refs aren't invested in the call the same way. In my view of other sports (soccer, mainly) where they oet it go the first time knowing the can look at it later.  They don't give much deference to the first call at all (despite the language of the rule) because eveeyone knows it is not really a call. The call is to look at replay and then decide. 

[Essex Johnson]

Jones was a pass, Dobbs more questionable. What was Jones ruled on field?

[TKUHL]

(01-08-2023, 09:50 AM)bengals67 Wrote: They looked identical to me.

Can anyone explain difference?

Is it a coincidence that completely inconsistent calls went the way of home team?

Aren’t these being reviewed by same reply people at NFL HQ?

Looked exactly the same to me. Zero consistency in the NFL.

[TKUHL]

(01-08-2023, 02:18 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Jones was a pass, Dobbs more questionable. What was Jones ruled on field?

Incomplete pass